No set proliferations in I15?

[Eldagore]

So I saw some nice additions on Posi's little pop up window I got last night in game, and on a few places here on the forum. But no mention of any new powersets, or proliferations.

I was really hoping for dark or rad blasters.

[Umbral]

[ QUOTE ]
So I saw some nice additions on Posi's little pop up window I got last night in game, and on a few places here on the forum. But no mention of any new powersets, or proliferations.

I was really hoping for dark or rad blasters.

[/ QUOTE ]

If we're getting any proliferation, it's going to require a bit of testing, which means it'll require a longer beta period. I'm pretty sure that they're trying to get out I15 as quickly as possible so I'd expect that we'll be getting any proliferation later. Plus, I expect that Castle has been pretty busy with all of the MA balancing and, as such, hasn't really had the time to intensively test and number crunch sets for proliferation.

[Lightfoot]

[ QUOTE ]
So I saw some nice additions on Posi's little pop up window I got last night in game, and on a few places here on the forum. But no mention of any new powersets, or proliferations.

I was really hoping for dark or rad blasters.

[/ QUOTE ]

They wanted to push something out for the Anniversary, so they took everything that was ready and called it an Issue.

My guess is that Castle and crew, having just come off the Architect Critter Creator, which is almost entirely their baby, hasn't had time to finish the work necessary for the next round of Proliferation. I'd be surprised if they have had time to even catch their breath in all the rapidfire bug and whack-a-mole fixes follwing Issue 14.

Since Issue 15 is "what's ready," expect it to go into Beta sometime in the next two weeks, and expect it to be a short Beta, maybe one or two weeks. I think we are looking at a month for Issue 15 to go live, tops.

I would expect a new round of Proliferation in Issue 16, and Positron has hinted that the next new Powersets will be Pistols (presumably for Blasters, Defenders, and Corruptors) and Demon Summoning for Masterminds. They may be far enough along on these sets that they will be in Issue 16, or they might be planned for Issue 17. We don't know enough information yet.

[Lucky666]

And I read can't find the link right now but everyone one is allowed in to closed beta. So I guess it won't really be closed.

[Virtual_Fighter]

After having just read all those interviews with Matt Miller from various sites, I'm just hoping they complete powerset proliferation before throwing out everything else they have "up their sleeves."

I want my Ninjitsu Scrapper damnit!

[LifeGuardian]

Ninjitsu scrapper will be waiting a while, I bet.

My guess for next round of proliferation --

Scrappers -- Energy/Energy
Tankers -- Electric/Electric
Controllers -- ?/Cold Domination
Defenders -- Thermal/Fire
Blasters -- Rad/?
Brutes -- ?/Regen
Stalkers -- ?/Invuln
Corruptors -- Archery/Trick Arrow
Masterminds -- ?/Sonic
Dominators -- Illusion/?

[stever]

[ QUOTE ]
After having just read all those interviews with Matt Miller from various sites, I'm just hoping they complete powerset proliferation before throwing out everything else they have "up their sleeves."

I want my Ninjitsu Scrapper damnit!

[/ QUOTE ]

Wha ?!?

What the do you mean complete it???
<ul type="square"> The devs Have never promised complete proliferation. Not only did they not promise it, they never suggested that it might be. The devs have said it will probably be a few issues before any other proliferation. They have said some powersets will never be given to some ATs. [/list]
A few of you are acting SHOCKed, just SHOCKed, that there is not a lot of proliferation in I15?
Really? . . . Reallly?


Then . . . I am just SHOCKED!! that they didn't add a GodMode Button in I15 for everyone!

.

[Trickshooter]

[ QUOTE ]
I want my Ninjitsu Scrapper damnit!

[/ QUOTE ]

Since it looks like Stalkers will probably never get Shields, I have a feeling Ninjitsu will end up staying unique to them as some sort of compensation.

[Zem]

[ QUOTE ]
Since it looks like Stalkers will probably never get Shields, I have a feeling Ninjitsu will end up staying unique to them as some sort of compensation.

[/ QUOTE ]

SD probably wouldn't be all that great on Stalkers, but yeah, for it to make the port over the devs would have to acknowledge their double-standards when it comes to what is or is not appropriate for "concept reasons". :p

Invuln would also be a pretty poor secondary for Stalkers. Ice (primary or secondary) would need a few more than the usual tweaks and Fire/Firey, well again they'd probably raise some kind of nonsense about "sneaky" concepts... pay no attention to the brilliant ball of crackling electricity that is the elec/elec stalker, of course.

In other words, as a Stalker fan, I am not holding my breath. I'd roll up a Ninjitsu Scrapper in a heartbeat though. Double Caltrops, ftw. :)

[Lord Mordeth]

Well, while I15 looks nice and all, i'd be disappointed if nothing was proliferated.. still, we'll see how it goes, but i'm hoping that they'll manage to finish up the testing/balancing/tweaking/etc required.

[Another_Fan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I want my Ninjitsu Scrapper damnit!

[/ QUOTE ]

Since it looks like Stalkers will probably never get Shields, I have a feeling Ninjitsu will end up staying unique to them as some sort of compensation.

[/ QUOTE ]

The comedy of Hide with a shield as the tool is something that can't be underestimated.

[JJDrakken]

6 Things I wanted to see for i15, Any of those six would been nice.


1. Archery/Trick Arrow for Corrupters
2. Akimbo Pistols for Corrupters/Blasters
3. New M.M. Primary
4. Psi Melee for Stalkers, Brutes, Scrappers, Tanks
5. Sonic Secondary or Thermal Rad Secondary for M.M.s
6. Thermal Rad/Fire Blast for Defenders


JJ

[Jibikao]

How come I15 looks more like an update than an actual "issue"? Yes, I know an "issue" is also an update but still....

It would be nice to see a few proliferations.

[RadDidIt]

Um, can you imagine the DPS a radiation blaster would put out just by spamming neutrino bolt with some procs?

Utterly ridiculous!

[IronJelly]

Some ideas for MM primaries:

Demons
Animals
Animal-ish people (oh comon, a werewolf pet for an MM would rock!)
Enslaved heroes
Clowns. of death.

Ok, thats all I got. Sonic would be a cool secondary for MM. I would also like to see shield defense there too. Might be less useful until later, but an aura when you want aggro, and some additional defense for your minions would make for an interesting toon IMO.

[LostHalo]

[ QUOTE ]
Some ideas for MM primaries.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not proliferation.

[ QUOTE ]
Sonic would be a cool secondary for MM.

[/ QUOTE ]

Proliferation.

[ QUOTE ]
I would also like to see shield defense there too. Might be less useful until later, but an aura when you want aggro, and some additional defense for your minions would make for an interesting toon IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not proliferation, directly.

Something like this would require some very specific reworking of powers but I could actually see it functioning--some sort of 'Commander' secondary focusing on motivation buffs, kind of like the VEATs in a way. 'Functioning' in the sense of being more 'logical' than "Peek-a-Boo!" Shield Stalkers. Granted, maybe the 'Hide' for SD on Stalkers would take a page from MGS and make the Stalker hide under a cardboard box or barrel or something.

[Dispari]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I want my Ninjitsu Scrapper damnit!

[/ QUOTE ]

Since it looks like Stalkers will probably never get Shields, I have a feeling Ninjitsu will end up staying unique to them as some sort of compensation.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dunno. Shields just don't match sneaky ninja types. I wouldn't expect them to give Ninjitsu to Tanks, but it could suit Scrappers just fine.

It's not like the "this is my unique set!" thing has held up very well. Doms lost all their unique primaries when Controllers stole Plant Control. Stalkers stole Elec, Blasters got Psi. There's not many unique sets left.

I want a Nin Scrapper! :p

[Jade_Dragon]

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno. Shields just don't match sneaky ninja types. I wouldn't expect them to give Ninjitsu to Tanks, but it could suit Scrappers just fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Brutes can get Sheilds, so it's not like it is UNIQUE to anyone. There would be nothing wrong with giving Ninjistu to Stalkers and Scrappers, and leaving Tankers and Brutes their own sets that only a couple of meleers have.

The one problem I have is when a set is unique to either red side or blue side, like Electric or Ice. I don't think Ice would be out of place for Stalkers, and it would be better than not having the set available at all for villains, as it currently is. If the devs only wanted to give Electric to Tankers or Scrappers but not both, then that would be fine, too.

There's also the possibility that something similar to cold using melee powers will come out for Brutes, but with a different set of secondary effects than -recharge.

[Zem]

[ QUOTE ]
Granted, maybe the 'Hide' for SD on Stalkers would take a page from MGS and make the Stalker hide under a cardboard box or barrel or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

The devs haven't bothered to explain how Hide works on ANY Stalker set, let alone potential future sets. The explanations you'd have to come up with for for how an SR hides, or an Elec, Willpower, Regen, etc. would be either equally absurd or just as plausible for a SD Stalker.

This is not a barrier (pardon the pun) to bringing shields to Stalkers. It is yet another red herring.

[Zem]

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno. Shields just don't match sneaky ninja types.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nor is it possible to "arrest" someone by hosing them down with a flamethrower, but that doesn't seem to prevent the devs from giving all manner of terrible weapons and powers to heroes who are generally expected to defeat, not kill, the bad guys.

Why is "concept" brought up only for certain cases of proliferation and given a complete bypass for others? Villains can't heal each other with Empathy but heroes can go to town on a purse snatcher with a massive BATTLE AXE of all things? Stalkers can't hide or move silently while carrying a shield, but they can do so while surrounded by a brilliant crackling field of electricity?

The clear case of double standards aside, I see no reason why a Stalker carrying a shield made of negative energy, or advanced stealth materials/gadgetry can't be silent or invisible. Not to mention the fact that a Stalker spends less time attacking from stealth than just scrapping it out.

Good ones anyway. :p

[Dispari]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is "concept" brought up only for certain cases of proliferation and given a complete bypass for others?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because devs like concept and have made changes based on it. This is why villains don't have Empathy and heroes don't have Poison.

[Virtual_Fighter]

Concept-wise then, Scrappers need Ninjitsu. Right, Batman!?

:p

[Rigel_Kent]

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno. Shields just don't match sneaky ninja types.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's a possibility shield proliferation to stalkers might somehow resemble last issue's empathy proliferation to corruptors and masterminds. :)

[_Laxx_]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dunno. Shields just don't match sneaky ninja types.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's a possibility shield proliferation to stalkers might somehow resemble last issue's empathy proliferation to corruptors and masterminds. :)

[/ QUOTE ]

"Shield" Stalker (http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/kotaku/2008/11/the_orange.jpg), once proliferated.

:D

[Squeakersman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dunno. Shields just don't match sneaky ninja types.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's a possibility shield proliferation to stalkers might somehow resemble last issue's empathy proliferation to corruptors and masterminds. :)

[/ QUOTE ]

"Shield" Stalker (http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/kotaku/2008/11/the_orange.jpg), once proliferated.

:D

[/ QUOTE ]

imagine an assasin strike :)... they poke a hole in the box and poke the enemy :)

[Ronin_Edge]

I was imagining more of a jack in the box type manuever. You know pop out of the box, stabby, stabby, dead. Then back in the box.

[Zem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why is "concept" brought up only for certain cases of proliferation and given a complete bypass for others?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because devs like concept and have made changes based on it. This is why villains don't have Empathy and heroes don't have Poison.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're missing my point. Why is it only brought up SOMETIMES to deny a proliferation when there are so many examples of existing powers that would seem to break those same rules? Why deny Poison to heroes when they already have powers that "generate toxic radioactive gas around yourself". Why is Poison any worse than "deadly radiation"? Or burning people alive? Or cutting them up with a Broadsword?

Even if they suddenly started caring about concept only recently, unless they plan to go back and remove all the non-concept powers from each side that has them... what's the point of caring about it now? This is closing the barn door after the horses have left.

Also, as funny as the MGS references to "It's just a box!" are... in all seriousness Shield Defense wouldn't have anything more to do with HOW the stalker hides than Regen or Willpower or Electric Armor currently do (which is to say, nothing at all).

[shadow35]

Jade,

Cold for Brutes was already tried and abandoned during CoV's beta, because it kept slowing down the mobs and interfering with Brute anger management. ;)

[Clouded]

In before rehashed and tired argument of Ice Armor Brutes and Fury, blahblahblah

[Bill Z Bubba]

[ QUOTE ]
In before rehashed and tired argument of Ice Armor Brutes and Fury, blahblahblah

[/ QUOTE ]

Clouded's right. We tore the argument against ice armor for brutes a new hole a thousand times over.

[Lightfoot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In before rehashed and tired argument of Ice Armor Brutes and Fury, blahblahblah

[/ QUOTE ]

Clouded's right. We tore the argument against ice armor for brutes a new hole a thousand times over.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just in case you missed 'em though....

During CoV Beta, they discovered that the slows and -recharge that are the secondary effect of Ice was interfering with Fury generation. For this reason, Ice was pulled as an option for Brutes. Later during the Beta, they tweaked the way that Fury worked. After they did this, they didn't go back to check how Ice would work with New Fury.

It is the belief among quite a few of us here that Ice would not be a such a disadvantage under New Fury as it was under Old Fury.

[Bill Z Bubba]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In before rehashed and tired argument of Ice Armor Brutes and Fury, blahblahblah

[/ QUOTE ]

Clouded's right. We tore the argument against ice armor for brutes a new hole a thousand times over.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just in case you missed 'em though....

During CoV Beta, they discovered that the slows and -recharge that are the secondary effect of Ice was interfering with Fury generation. For this reason, Ice was pulled as an option for Brutes. Later during the Beta, they tweaked the way that Fury worked. After they did this, they didn't go back to check how Ice would work with New Fury.

It is the belief among quite a few of us here that Ice would not be a such a disadvantage under New Fury as it was under Old Fury.

[/ QUOTE ]

You left out how many other primaries and secondaries include powers that mitigate damage by halting/slowing the enemy's ability to attack, thus reducing fury generation.

[apple_eater]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why is "concept" brought up only for certain cases of proliferation and given a complete bypass for others?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because devs like concept and have made changes based on it. This is why villains don't have Empathy and heroes don't have Poison.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're missing my point. Why is it only brought up SOMETIMES to deny a proliferation when there are so many examples of existing powers that would seem to break those same rules? Why deny Poison to heroes when they already have powers that "generate toxic radioactive gas around yourself". Why is Poison any worse than "deadly radiation"? Or burning people alive? Or cutting them up with a Broadsword?

Even if they suddenly started caring about concept only recently, unless they plan to go back and remove all the non-concept powers from each side that has them... what's the point of caring about it now? This is closing the barn door after the horses have left.

Also, as funny as the MGS references to "It's just a box!" are... in all seriousness Shield Defense wouldn't have anything more to do with HOW the stalker hides than Regen or Willpower or Electric Armor currently do (which is to say, nothing at all).

[/ QUOTE ]


It's all about where you want to draw the line. Of course we all pick a different place.

[Lightfoot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Just in case you missed 'em though....

During CoV Beta, they discovered that the slows and -recharge that are the secondary effect of Ice was interfering with Fury generation. For this reason, Ice was pulled as an option for Brutes. Later during the Beta, they tweaked the way that Fury worked. After they did this, they didn't go back to check how Ice would work with New Fury.

It is the belief among quite a few of us here that Ice would not be a such a disadvantage under New Fury as it was under Old Fury.

[/ QUOTE ]

You left out how many other primaries and secondaries include powers that mitigate damage by halting/slowing the enemy's ability to attack, thus reducing fury generation.

[/ QUOTE ]

IIRC, that was the reason for New Fury in the first place. They never gave Ice a second chance. Given that there are sets with Stuns, Knockdowns and Fears, -recharge shouldn't be that big an issue, thus the "not such a huge disadvantage under New Fury..."

[Zem]

[ QUOTE ]
It's all about where you want to draw the line. Of course we all pick a different place.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems more like a "when" than a "where" to me. You realize that the word "deadly" does not appear anywhere in the power descriptions for the MM's Poison powerset, yet it appears several times in the descriptions of Radiation Emission powers? And before anyone tries to say descriptions don't mean anything, remember... we're talking about concept here, not mechanics.

If anything, the Poison powerset looks carefully designed to be harmful, but not lethal, whereas the Radiation Emission powerset reads like "you might easily die from exposure to this". And just look at Fallout! After an ally falls you can "extract the energy from their body"?! Corpse explosion? You have to be a necromancer in some games for that. Here it apparently won't stop you from getting your face on a cereal box.

But thank goodness Villains can't empathize with one another, cause that would just be WRONG. ;)

[Dispari]

[ QUOTE ]
You're missing my point. Why is it only brought up SOMETIMES to deny a proliferation when there are so many examples of existing powers that would seem to break those same rules?

[/ QUOTE ]
Can't say I know. I can only imagine it's because there's more than one person working on things (possibly even different people than there were originally) and sometimes the person who's doing stuff at the time doesn't care about concept or has other priorities over concept. If I was in charge of anything related to concept, Brutes and Tanks wouldn't have Dual Blades.

[Cynical_Gamer]

[ QUOTE ]
If I was in charge of anything related to concept, Brutes and Tanks wouldn't have Dual Blades.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good thing you aren't in charge then.

[Dispari]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I was in charge of anything related to concept, Brutes and Tanks wouldn't have Dual Blades.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good thing you aren't in charge then.

[/ QUOTE ]
I know. :)

[Lightfoot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I was in charge of anything related to concept, Brutes and Tanks wouldn't have Dual Blades.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good thing you aren't in charge then.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. They should make the powersets available, and let us worry about concept.

I have a Tank and a Brute with Dual Blades that I am very happy with.

Tiny Tom is my DB/DA Brute who was exiled by his fellow Redcaps for being too violent. When the rest of his clan tried to strip him of his power before shunning him, he broke free of his bonds and attacked the leader of the clan, causing a magical backlash. That fallout is the source of his Dark Armor powers.

Ushabti is my FA/DB Tanker. Ushabti is a guardian statue brought to life and empowered by priests of Ra to combat Apep (my DB/DA Stalker), who has been released again onto the mortal plane.

I could easily make villains with an Empathy powerset, or heroes with a Poison powerset, it's all in how you write it. Heck, I have comcepts in my head for heroic Stalkers and villainous Defenders.

[Succulent_Abyss]

[ QUOTE ]

I could easily make villains with an Empathy powerset, or heroes with a Poison powerset, it's all in how you write it. Heck, I have comcepts in my head for heroic Stalkers and villainous Defenders.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly my biggest pet peeve as far as proliferation goes is Archery and Broad Sword. If hacking people to bits with a huge sword; or filling them with pointy stabbers, isn't evil I don't know what is these days! Hell BS seems more like a brute set in play than a scrapper one... it is slow, strong, and unfluent. Give a really pissed off dude one o those and watch the bodies pile up.

[Radionuclide]

[ QUOTE ]
Nor is it possible to "arrest" someone by hosing them down with a flamethrower, but that doesn't seem to prevent the devs from giving all manner of terrible weapons and powers to heroes who are generally expected to defeat, not kill, the bad guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like most words, arrest has several meanings. One just happens to mean to bring to a stop (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrest). Both, death and incarceration achieve that. It's up to your character to determine how they "arrest".

[ QUOTE ]
Why is "concept" brought up only for certain cases of proliferation and given a complete bypass for others? Villains can't heal each other with Empathy but heroes can go to town on a purse snatcher with a massive BATTLE AXE of all things? Stalkers can't hide or move silently while carrying a shield, but they can do so while surrounded by a brilliant crackling field of electricity?

[/ QUOTE ]

We've already addressed killing so the battle axe argument is moot. Why do stalkers get Electricity but, not shields? I don't know. I would not have proliferated Elec if that was my decision to make. It makes about as much sense as ducking behind a shield or knowing someone else can't see you (willpower).

I have no problem with gadgetry making you silent or invisible but, a shield is not the best representation of such a devise. :p

--Rad

[ChaosExMachina]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I want my Ninjitsu Scrapper damnit!

[/ QUOTE ]

Since it looks like Stalkers will probably never get Shields, I have a feeling Ninjitsu will end up staying unique to them as some sort of compensation.

[/ QUOTE ]

The comedy of Hide with a shield as the tool is something that can't be underestimated.

[/ QUOTE ]

It makes exactly as much sense as regen hide, or for that matter, the powers that shields get that have nothing to do with shields, such as true grit or aoo.

The hide skill can be done independently of the shield. There's no rule that it has to be RPed as a function of the set's theme.

However, some of the most distinctive shield powers would not work with a stalker's style.

[XaoGarrent]

I feel the need to chime in here with my agreement on the subject of letting the players fill in the blanks as far as concept goes. I completely and totally agree on that this games double standards are arbitrary and stupid (yes I know, "double standard" and "arbitrary and stupid" are redundant) and should tossed out with all the other bad decisions made early on, and that the devs should stop worrying their pants off about whether something is right or wrong for either side of the pond. I mean, just to name two really obvious cases, Batman is a heroic Stalker (Well, sometimes anyway) and Magneto is a Villainous controller: at this point we're talking about ATs, which is an even larger issue when it comes to concept than specific powersets.

And besides, if someone wants to make a clown/pirate/werewolf/robot, it's going to be kind of hard to stop them, and with that considered we are already past the point of no return. I mean, why bother nitpicking about the little things like whether Shield would make sense on Stalkers or if Empathy can be villainous when you have clown/pirate/werewolf/robots running around?? You've already lost before you've started.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, as funny as the MGS references to "It's just a box!" are... in all seriousness Shield Defense wouldn't have anything more to do with HOW the stalker hides than Regen or Willpower or Electric Armor currently do (which is to say, nothing at all).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is EXACTLY the point. It would have as much to do with how the Stalker hides as any of those when you start to take in to consideration how far concept can be bent and stretched. Regen stalkers could be said to shapeshift to blend in with the enemy, Elec or Energy Aura could bend light around themselves to become invisible (incidentally that is what Conductive Shield's description says it does, after all light is Energy), Willpower could basically do it the same way Ninjitsu does, with intense concentration and skill, or maybe you just look so average that no one notices you (Ok, that's a stretch, but still, THE ADVENTURES OF AVERAGE MAN!). Shield Defense could easily be explained away as some sort of stealth tech or magical invisibility relic as Regen could shapeshifting.

[shameless plug]My theory as to the REAL reason Shield didn't get ported to Stalkers? It's bad enough on Brutes and Scraps, the set would have required a major reworking to be even tolerable on Stalkers. That and AAOs wouldn't play nice with Hide.[/shameless plug]
To be honest that set only has a few issues, and I still think it should have a shield bash cone, but that is a rant for another post in a different thread.

[Another_Fan]

[ QUOTE ]
The comedy of Hide with a shield as the tool is something that can't be iverestimated.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
It makes exactly as much sense as regen hide, or for that matter, the powers that shields get that have nothing to do with shields, such as true grit or aoo.


[/ QUOTE ]

Then I want a shield stalker that uses a large potted plant for his shield. He could be named creepy office guy

[Zem]

[ QUOTE ]
Like most words, arrest has several meanings. One just happens to mean to bring to a stop (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrest). Both, death and incarceration achieve that. It's up to your character to determine how they "arrest".

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh you did NOT just play the dictionary card! :)

"Arrest" has a specific definition in this context and it is not "to kill". This is the devs' concept of Paragon City we are discussing, remember. It's not the players that are preventing these powerset proliferations. It's the devs. Players do whatever the hell they want, but officially according to canon, the heroes of Paragon City are bound by laws not so different from those of modern day America not to mention comic book ideals of what is and is not heroic. Hosing down a purse-snatcher with a Flamethrower... is not.

[ QUOTE ]
We've already addressed killing so the battle axe argument is moot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bzzzzt!

[ QUOTE ]
Why do stalkers get Electricity but, not shields? I don't know. I would not have proliferated Elec if that was my decision to make. It makes about as much sense as ducking behind a shield or knowing someone else can't see you (willpower).

[/ QUOTE ]

Point being that Stalker secondaries do not necessarily HAVE to explain how the Stalker is able to hide. Your Super Reflexes Stalker is free to decide that he's just hiding in the shadows (natural), moving so fast he can't be seen (mutation/science/magic), or just plain switching on his cloaking device (tech). Hide is in the secondary because it had to be put somewhere. If the devs had made it an inherent like Domination, we wouldn't be having this hang-up right now. Really only Ninjitsu, Dark, and Energy have anything resembling built-in explanations, so like I said, the "peek-a-boo" shield idea makes for a funny post, but it's really not a valid argument in the way of preventing Stalkers from having shields.

[ QUOTE ]
I have no problem with gadgetry making you silent or invisible but, a shield is not the best representation of such a devise. :p

[/ QUOTE ]

I can come up with several plausible ways a tech or magic-based shield could conceal you but like I said, it's not necessary. It's not a requirement for current Stalker secondaries and thus not a requirement for any future Stalker secondaries.

[Zem]

[ QUOTE ]
[shameless plug]My theory as to the REAL reason Shield didn't get ported to Stalkers? It's bad enough on Brutes and Scraps, the set would have required a major reworking to be even tolerable on Stalkers. That and AAOs wouldn't play nice with Hide.[/shameless plug]

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither does RttC. Porting armors to Stalkers has always involved a little rework. They don't get damage and taunt auras as a general rule, although Dark Armor for Stalkers did retain its fear and stun auras which DO in fact interfere with a Stalker's stealth. So it's been done. Precendent has been set. AOO is not the problem.

The only other potential sticking point is Grant Cover. They could dump Grant Cover for Hide (it has to take the place of something) and modify AOO to remove the taunt and defense debuff auras, perhaps strengthening the damage bonus to compensate or adding a slight self def buff.

And anyone who thinks Shield Charge is a problem, I'll refer them to the Tier 9 in Electric Melee. ;)

[MowDownJoe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I want my Ninjitsu Scrapper damnit!

[/ QUOTE ]

Since it looks like Stalkers will probably never get Shields, I have a feeling Ninjitsu will end up staying unique to them as some sort of compensation.

[/ QUOTE ]

The comedy of Hide with a shield as the tool is something that can't be underestimated.

[/ QUOTE ]
No one seems to pay any mind when Solid Snake's cardboard box appears out of nowhere. I'm sure they'd pay no attention to the shield leaning against the wall.

[Another_Fan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I want my Ninjitsu Scrapper damnit!

[/ QUOTE ]

Since it looks like Stalkers will probably never get Shields, I have a feeling Ninjitsu will end up staying unique to them as some sort of compensation.

[/ QUOTE ]

The comedy of Hide with a shield as the tool is something that can't be overestimated.

[/ QUOTE ]
No one seems to pay any mind when Solid Snake's cardboard box appears out of nowhere. I'm sure they'd pay no attention to the shield leaning against the wall.

[/ QUOTE ]

How it would likely work (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltmMJntSfQI)

[_Laxx_]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I want my Ninjitsu Scrapper damnit!

[/ QUOTE ]

Since it looks like Stalkers will probably never get Shields, I have a feeling Ninjitsu will end up staying unique to them as some sort of compensation.

[/ QUOTE ]

The comedy of Hide with a shield as the tool is something that can't be underestimated.

[/ QUOTE ]
No one seems to pay any mind when Solid Snake's cardboard box appears out of nowhere. I'm sure they'd pay no attention to the shield leaning against the wall.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. I posted earlier about that. Snake has the whole "obvious" method of hiding down to an art.

[BrandX]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're missing my point. Why is it only brought up SOMETIMES to deny a proliferation when there are so many examples of existing powers that would seem to break those same rules?

[/ QUOTE ]
Can't say I know. I can only imagine it's because there's more than one person working on things (possibly even different people than there were originally) and sometimes the person who's doing stuff at the time doesn't care about concept or has other priorities over concept. If I was in charge of anything related to concept, Brutes and Tanks wouldn't have Dual Blades.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I wish you were in charge. Especually if you tell me Stone Armor stays just with Tanks and Brutes. :)

[Roderick]

QR to the OP:

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The first announcement of any issue is the one tailored to elicit the "OMG THIS IS SO COOL MUST HAVE NOW!" response. Powerset Proliferation is not the new and shiny, it's the continuation of something already in the game.

Think about i14. How many announcements were made before people knew about the PVP IOs?

[LostHalo]

[ QUOTE ]
And anyone who thinks Shield Charge is a problem, I'll refer them to the Tier 9 in Electric Melee. ;)

[/ QUOTE ]

Which does make it a problem. Two powerful AoE TeleNukes that don't notify? Uh...

[XaoGarrent]

[ QUOTE ]
Neither does RttC. Porting armors to Stalkers has always involved a little rework. They don't get damage and taunt auras as a general rule, although Dark Armor for Stalkers did retain its fear and stun auras which DO in fact interfere with a Stalker's stealth. So it's been done. Precendent has been set. AOO is not the problem.

The only other potential sticking point is Grant Cover. They could dump Grant Cover for Hide (it has to take the place of something) and modify AOO to remove the taunt and defense debuff auras, perhaps strengthening the damage bonus to compensate or adding a slight self def buff.

And anyone who thinks Shield Charge is a problem, I'll refer them to the Tier 9 in Electric Melee. ;)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I know that porting armor to stalkers generally requires changing something, but in this case it's a bit more complicated than "swap this out for this." Shields is bad enough on other ATs so I have a feeling it would fold over like a cardboard box on Stalkers, and that is after we figure out what to replace AAO with, and I do say replace since I doubt they would give us a power that grants a buff that scales to mob size without tossing in a Taunt aura. I mean, it's conceivable since it's not a defensive buff as much as an offensive one, but if you want to talk about "setting a precedent" we'd be more likely to get some kind of fast recharging Build Up clone that gives a 50-60% buff in it's place much like Willpower got Reconstruction. Although, I don't doubt that was also partially because HP regen based powers are a little broken on Stalkers because of their low HP.

As for Grant Cover, yeah I could see them dropping that, but then they would have to move the defense debuff resistance into something else and that would cause everyone to whine that their AT has to pick up Grant Cover for the defense debuff resistance. That's not to say it shouldn't be moved out of Grant Cover now, though, I still think it's just dumb to put Defense Debuff resistance in an optional team buff inside a defense based set. But the point is they would be setting themselves up for yet more work and whiney players.

[ QUOTE ]
Which does make it a problem. Two powerful AoE TeleNukes that don't notify? Uh...

[/ QUOTE ]

Spines/Fire Scrappers have two build ups and two damage auras that when used together with thier AoEs can kill all the minions and LTs in a spawn in seconds, but because the build ups are on a long recharges it limits how often this is useful. An Elec Melee/Shield Stalker would be about the same, you'd have to either use them together and deal with the long recharge or use one per mob and put yourself at risk after the initial attack. Either way you find yourself attacking normally at some point.

Edited for clarification.

[Zem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And anyone who thinks Shield Charge is a problem, I'll refer them to the Tier 9 in Electric Melee. ;)

[/ QUOTE ]

Which does make it a problem. Two powerful AoE TeleNukes that don't notify? Uh...

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh... they do notify. A Stalker using LR today won't drop out of Hide, but every mob he hits will aggro on him immediately. If he's quick, he can still get his Hide crit following the LR, but he's due one Hide crit anyway at the start of a fight so really, it's not about extra damage or getting away with something an Elec/SD Brute can't already do.

Next?

[XaoGarrent]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And anyone who thinks Shield Charge is a problem, I'll refer them to the Tier 9 in Electric Melee. ;)

[/ QUOTE ]

Which does make it a problem. Two powerful AoE TeleNukes that don't notify? Uh...

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh... they do notify. A Stalker using LR today won't drop out of Hide, but every mob he hits will aggro on him immediately. If he's quick, he can still get his Hide crit following the LR, but he's due one Hide crit anyway at the start of a fight so really, it's not about extra damage or getting away with something an Elec/SD Brute can't already do.

Next?

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh, didn't know they fixed that. The last time I teamed with an Elec Melee Stalker they didn't seem to gain agro from LR, when did they change this? I'm going to have to get my friend to log on his Elec Melee/WP Stalker and test this out, maybe it just doesn't draw enough agro to pull enemies off a Brute.

[DarkSideLeague]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And anyone who thinks Shield Charge is a problem, I'll refer them to the Tier 9 in Electric Melee. ;)

[/ QUOTE ]

Which does make it a problem. Two powerful AoE TeleNukes that don't notify? Uh...

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh... they do notify. A Stalker using LR today won't drop out of Hide, but every mob he hits will aggro on him immediately. If he's quick, he can still get his Hide crit following the LR, but he's due one Hide crit anyway at the start of a fight so really, it's not about extra damage or getting away with something an Elec/SD Brute can't already do.

Next?

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh, didn't know they fixed that. The last time I teamed with an Elec Melee Stalker they didn't seem to gain agro from LR, when did they change this? I'm going to have to get my friend to log on his Elec Melee/WP Stalker and test this out, maybe it just doesn't draw enough agro to pull enemies off a Brute.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be because Brute attacks/auras have a Taunt Component.

[Akuma_Mishima]

[ QUOTE ]
QR to the OP:

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The first announcement of any issue is the one tailored to elicit the "OMG THIS IS SO COOL MUST HAVE NOW!" response. Powerset Proliferation is not the new and shiny, it's the continuation of something already in the game.

Think about i14. How many announcements were made before people knew about the PVP IOs?

[/ QUOTE ]

imo, I think you've got it the wrong way.

powerset proliferation would be the new shiny

a few add-ons to AE and two TFs would be the nice extras.

Proof? people begging for new proliferation since i12, and complaining about issues that don't continue it.

personally, I'd be surprised if proliferation and pistols / demons weren't a part of i15 or at least stretch goals. if they aren't, I seem i16 coming out quickly after i15.

two TFs and some AE changes would be imo even weaker than i13

[XaoGarrent]

[ QUOTE ]
That would be because Brute attacks/auras have a Taunt Component.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is it everyone automatically assumes everyone else doesn't know anything about this game? Oh, by the way, you forgot to mention how Brutes have a threat rating of 3 against a Stalkers 2.

All of that is irrelevant: Most of my Brutes are NOT speced for Agro Management. Heck, the Brute I'm thinking of is a Stone Melee/Willpower mezzing DPSer who's only AoE is Fault. So when I'm fighting something I can't mezz with Fault (Nemesis, for instance, if the Fakes get their disp bubble up before I can hit them with SS) there is going to be some agro leakage. RTTC is just pitiful for agro control, I really wish they would buff the aura taunt on it.

I'd like to test this out again, but my friend moved his Stalker to Freedom (Don't ask why, because I don't know) and all my Brutes are on Virtue and Infinity. If it was fixed before it went live and not after then it might just be the LR pseudo-pet has very weak agro potential. Normally an AoE attack that does triple digits grabs agro regardless of ATs unless you have a Brute or a Tank Taunt spamming. It's the reason why a Blaster often goes SPLAT if their nuke doesn't kill enough of the spawn.

[ QUOTE ]
imo, I think you've got it the wrong way.

powerset proliferation would be the new shiny

a few add-ons to AE and two TFs would be the nice extras.

Proof? people begging for new proliferation since i12, and complaining about issues that don't continue it.

personally, I'd be surprised if proliferation and pistols / demons weren't a part of i15 or at least stretch goals. if they aren't, I seem i16 coming out quickly after i15.

two TFs and some AE changes would be imo even weaker than i13

[/ QUOTE ]

You DO realize Issue 15 isn't really even meant to be a full blown issue, right? We might get something else that's not on the list, but I doubt we will see anything proliferated or any new sets, unless they've had some secret project tucked away since before I14. It's possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath, basicially this is just an issue for them to wave around a big flag that says "Look how long we've been around!"

Also, if you look around the forums at some of the other topics here you should find they've more or less said "Pistols? Demons? What...?" when people asked about them personally. Of coarse there is the standard speculation that they are working on it but not talking about it/admitting to it, but that's all it is, speculation.

You're expecting a full blown issue from something that is meant to just be a quick throw together of stuff that has been in the works for a while, and if people keep this up this might be the last time we see the devs do this. I wouldn't mind more small issues with just a couple things dotted between the bigger ones to keep things fresh over time, but if people start complaining that every issue isn't OMGWTFBBQAWESOMESAUCE we may not see this kind of thing anymore.

[Muffi]

I'd be perfectly content with a content heavy issue anyway. Given the sudden explosive growth in the numbers of 50's it might be time to add some more serious end game content. I want my Moonbase TF dammit! :D

[JKwervo]

I want more epic raids rather than Hami and the Ship Raid. GMs are cool and all, but not really epic. I can solo them easy.

And yes, new zones plz.

[Akuma_Mishima]

[ QUOTE ]
You DO realize Issue 15 isn't really even meant to be a full blown issue, right? We might get something else that's not on the list, but I doubt we will see anything proliferated or any new sets, unless they've had some secret project tucked away since before I14. It's possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath, basicially this is just an issue for them to wave around a big flag that says "Look how long we've been around!"

Also, if you look around the forums at some of the other topics here you should find they've more or less said "Pistols? Demons? What...?" when people asked about them personally. Of coarse there is the standard speculation that they are working on it but not talking about it/admitting to it, but that's all it is, speculation.

You're expecting a full blown issue from something that is meant to just be a quick throw together of stuff that has been in the works for a while, and if people keep this up this might be the last time we see the devs do this. I wouldn't mind more small issues with just a couple things dotted between the bigger ones to keep things fresh over time, but if people start complaining that every issue isn't OMGWTFBBQAWESOMESAUCE we may not see this kind of thing anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

i13 was a sub par update and if there's nothing else to i15, it will be sub par as well.

Expecting i15 to add substance isn't irrational considering:

A. i13's non fluff consisted shields and pain dom
B. i14's core feature was nice, but frankly not so great that it can stand entirely by itself imo.

My expectations aren't out of line, I thought i10, i11, and i12 were great. i12 in particular was an issue Positron himself mentioned wouldn't be a "big, impressive issue" and yet I liked that one the best out of the three.

Personally, I think you're expectations are a little low. But you can expect what you want. Trying to dissuade people for having higher, yet entirely reasonable (considering update history) expectations than you is silly.

[Zem]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is it everyone automatically assumes everyone else doesn't know anything about this game? Oh, by the way, you forgot to mention how Brutes have a threat rating of 3 against a Stalkers 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think people are assuming you don't know "anything". They know you're wrong about the aggro and are trying to explain why you saw what you saw. I don't have an Elec myself, but I know how the aggro works with my Ninjitsu's Caltrops. I don't get aggro for dropping them, but anything hit by them will know about me and attack, whether I am still Hidden or not.

But if you really want to see it for yourself, ask in the Stalker forum and I am sure someone will be able to demonstrate it for you in game. There's a Lightning Rod thread going on now that mentions the aggro you take from it. You could ask there.

[Cauda]

[ QUOTE ]
[LIST] The devs Have never promised complete proliferation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there an interview where one of the devs say we won't go two issues without proliferation?

[Succulent_Abyss]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[LIST] The devs Have never promised complete proliferation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there an interview where one of the devs say we won't go two issues without proliferation?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes there is

[DarkSideLeague]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[LIST] The devs Have never promised complete proliferation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there an interview where one of the devs say we won't go two issues without proliferation?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes there is

[/ QUOTE ]

Also BaBs (I think) said they were planning on Porting everything but Empathy and Poison. (This was prior to I12)

[DarkSideLeague]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That would be because Brute attacks/auras have a Taunt Component.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is it everyone automatically assumes everyone else doesn't know anything about this game? Oh, by the way, you forgot to mention how Brutes have a threat rating of 3 against a Stalkers 2.

All of that is irrelevant: Most of my Brutes are NOT speced for Agro Management. Heck, the Brute I'm thinking of is a Stone Melee/Willpower mezzing DPSer who's only AoE is Fault. So when I'm fighting something I can't mezz with Fault (Nemesis, for instance, if the Fakes get their disp bubble up before I can hit them with SS) there is going to be some agro leakage. RTTC is just pitiful for agro control, I really wish they would buff the aura taunt on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh when did they change the threat rating on Stalkers? Cause when I checked in July last year, they had a Threat Rating of FOUR.

[Succulent_Abyss]

[ QUOTE ]

Uh when did they change the threat rating on Stalkers? Cause when I checked in July last year, they had a Threat Rating of FOUR.

[/ QUOTE ]

Around the same time they made other changes to Stalkers. They tweaked them quite a bit at one point in the last year.

[Virtual_Fighter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[LIST] The devs Have never promised complete proliferation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there an interview where one of the devs say we won't go two issues without proliferation?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes there is

[/ QUOTE ]

Also BaBs (I think) said they were planning on Porting everything but Empathy and Poison. (This was prior to I12)

[/ QUOTE ]

When was the last proliferation? Issue 13?

[Akuma_Mishima]

[ QUOTE ]
When was the last proliferation? Issue 13?

[/ QUOTE ]

the only proliferation was i12, unless you count pain dom as a proliferation as an altered version of empathy.

personally, I feel a little "miffed" shall we say, simply because proliferation was advertised pre-i12 as something they could do in between issues if they so desired.

[Clouded]

You'll get over it, I'm sure. I still have so many characters to play and don't really care if I15 contains 0 proliferation.

I'm jonesing over the new TF/SF for all my 50s. Bring em on!

[Catwhoorg]

Castle and the powers team, who have to rebalance each proliferation have been working rather hard on getting the MA AI custom critters into the right area, not too powerful and not too easy.
Outside of Pohsyb and the other actual programmers, they have probably had the most to do with the MA.

I personally would rather they had spent the time they ahve doing that, than examing other proliferations.

Once the MA custom critters are stable, they will again have time to look at proliferations.

[biff10426]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I want my Ninjitsu Scrapper damnit!

[/ QUOTE ]

Since it looks like Stalkers will probably never get Shields, I have a feeling Ninjitsu will end up staying unique to them as some sort of compensation.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dunno. Shields just don't match sneaky ninja types. I wouldn't expect them to give Ninjitsu to Tanks, but it could suit Scrappers just fine.

It's not like the "this is my unique set!" thing has held up very well. Doms lost all their unique primaries when Controllers stole Plant Control. Stalkers stole Elec, Blasters got Psi. There's not many unique sets left.

I want a Nin Scrapper! :p

[/ QUOTE ]

Stalkers = ninjas...kinda. Really depends on how you wanna play/define them. Take a rogue for example, in D&amp;D at least, they can hide and sneak in shadows and [censored] but they do lots of damage "out of hide" so to speak by flanking and striking weak points.

Which might be enough to "draw aggro" (from the DM -_-) and while slippery, can't take the punishment a fighter/barb/scalemail wearing [censored] warlock.

SO giving stalkers /elec and possibly /shields could work out in that sense. /ninja /regen /energy etc you could definitately play as the "I have predator cloaking skillz/sneaks" and the rest just as a guy who knows where to hit, and hits hard, just has minimal defenses if hes caught facing down some huge [censored] for too long without backup....and [censored].

Not that I play stalkers anyways, I hate dying a lot first few levels :(

[biff10426]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Just in case you missed 'em though....

During CoV Beta, they discovered that the slows and -recharge that are the secondary effect of Ice was interfering with Fury generation. For this reason, Ice was pulled as an option for Brutes. Later during the Beta, they tweaked the way that Fury worked. After they did this, they didn't go back to check how Ice would work with New Fury.

It is the belief among quite a few of us here that Ice would not be a such a disadvantage under New Fury as it was under Old Fury.

[/ QUOTE ]

You left out how many other primaries and secondaries include powers that mitigate damage by halting/slowing the enemy's ability to attack, thus reducing fury generation.

[/ QUOTE ]

IIRC, that was the reason for New Fury in the first place. They never gave Ice a second chance. Given that there are sets with Stuns, Knockdowns and Fears, -recharge shouldn't be that big an issue, thus the "not such a huge disadvantage under New Fury..."

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think, then, that /ice for brutes would largely be a more "tanky" set than a "jump in there and [censored] things up ASAP" sets, uh like /WP or esp /fire.

Yea yea, hinters fury regeneration...I find that teaming with teams that have the right setups hinters my fury generation too; as I grab aggro and usually a few seconds later everything is dead, so I don't really see what would be the big deal aside from soloing. Even then, you'd just give up doing more damage in place of living slightly longer, some people like that play style over others. I say put it out and let people make their own godamn choice whether they want /ice on their brute or not instead of saying "It wont work...probably :("

[Frostweaver]

ice brutes would be a heck of a lot more redside tankers than stone brutes are :P

[Bill Z Bubba]

claws/ice brute.....

iwantiwantiwant

[Frostweaver]

not till you get talsorian claws that you can shade to look like ice armor :P

[Bill Z Bubba]

pfft, fury claws with white/white will work just fine for me

[Frostweaver]

I thought Fury Claws were defaulted to black? Not-modifiable, I mean.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Might be right. Can't recall. If true, Jay needs to fix that!

[Iannis]

A ninjitsu scrapper could be fun.

Maybe an ice armor stalker. Defense based set r gud for puny stalker, and a few little toys like a slow PBAOE and icicles (i'd imagine the dull pain would be replaced with Hide). Muahaha?

[Diesel Punk]

Just make Elec/Elec Tanks and we'll call it a Solid Issue for Proliferation.

We'll also call it the 4th Time Ive deleted my main when he was above level 40 but hey, I want my Thunder Titan :cool:

[AquaJAWS]

[ QUOTE ]
And anyone who thinks Shield Charge is a problem [for stalkers], I'll refer them to the Tier 9 in Electric Melee. ;)

[/ QUOTE ]
My only problem with that argument is that electric melee is a primary set and shields are a secondary set. My guess is they would take out shield charge for hide, but I could be wrong. I'm not against shield stalkers, just I agree that the set would need a decent amount of tweeking to be proliferated.

[Dispari]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And anyone who thinks Shield Charge is a problem [for stalkers], I'll refer them to the Tier 9 in Electric Melee. ;)

[/ QUOTE ]
My only problem with that argument is that electric melee is a primary set and shields are a secondary set. My guess is they would take out shield charge for hide, but I could be wrong. I'm not against shield stalkers, just I agree that the set would need a decent amount of tweeking to be proliferated.

[/ QUOTE ]
They'd probably take out Against All Odds. Would be silly for Stalkers to have a taunt aura.

[Zem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And anyone who thinks Shield Charge is a problem [for stalkers], I'll refer them to the Tier 9 in Electric Melee. ;)

[/ QUOTE ]
My only problem with that argument is that electric melee is a primary set and shields are a secondary set. My guess is they would take out shield charge for hide, but I could be wrong. I'm not against shield stalkers, just I agree that the set would need a decent amount of tweeking to be proliferated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would Shield Charge be removed? Brutes have both LR and Shield Charge available to them if they so choose. A Stalker using either or both powers gains nothing that a brute doesn't already have. Neither power causes a critical hit for Stalkers and neither power can be used without notifying enemies of the Hidden Stalker's presence, so.... what's the problem really?

Also it would be a little ironic for Stalkers to lack SD's only offensive power given that among the four standard melee ATs, they are supposedly the most focused on offense at the expense of survivability.

[Zem]

[ QUOTE ]
They'd probably take out Against All Odds. Would be silly for Stalkers to have a taunt aura.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's probably as academic as this whole argument has been. I suppose I just enjoy tilting at windmills sometimes. Given that the devs went to the entire trouble of inventing Pain Dom in order to avoid giving Villains Empathy, I suppose I'd have to agree they'll probably never proliferate SD to Stalkers anyway. Not because I agree with their reason, but because I believe they believe it enough to stick to it. :p

[Diesel Punk]

Does anyone else realize more and more when they proliferated Powersets that there are just certain ATs you wish you could bring across?

Id like to Bring Corrupters and Stalkers to Heroes, not for any other reason than I like their playstyle and want to play them on a Heroes Map.

Disregarding Thematics, I just mechanically like them better than their counterparts.

[Dispari]

I'd like to play a red Blaster or a blue Corruptor. Or, really, I want to play the blue content with my Widow who has done all the red content.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Yup. If we had brutes on the hero side with all available powersets from tanks and scrappers, I wouldn't bother with scrappers any more than I bother with tanks now.

Brutes &gt; Scrappers &gt; Tanks.

(And I've no doubt that my scrapper brethren are about to beat me senseless as a heretic.)

[Dispari]

[ QUOTE ]
Yup. If we had brutes on the hero side with all available powersets from tanks and scrappers, I wouldn't bother with scrappers any more than I bother with tanks now.

Brutes &gt; Scrappers &gt; Tanks.

(And I've no doubt that my scrapper brethren are about to beat me senseless as a heretic.)

[/ QUOTE ]
I would, since I much prefer sustained damage with crits than having to build up to damage. I like just being able to one-shot things right out, instead of bouncing into a group with BU and doing my strongest attack and watching things NOT die.

There's a lot of "if we had these and those... why would anyone play these anymore?" theory, but I really don't think any AT would be any less popular than it is right now if we had the option to make all of them on either side. Each AT is different enough and has enough of its own role to still fit in.

[AprilShade]

I just wish some things would move over to other ATs more swiftly. Some sets I wouldn't like to play under one AT, but under another it could potentially be awesome.

Ice Armor/Ice Melee for scrappers would be nice to give them another element.

Conversely, Energy Aura for tanks would be interesting, since they already have Energy Melee. Electric armor and Electric melee could probably wait longer, since it'd be nicer to give them as a set. For an offensive power, either don't give them one, or give them MA or Broadsword.

Defenders would take Thermal/Fire and love it. Most likely pairing it with different secondaries to max it out. I think Fire Blast itself will becomes REALLY popular among defenders.

For Controllers, give them Cold Domination. If they ever get Dark Miasma, then my D3 is nothing compared to a Dark Miasma controller, so hopefully that doesn't happen.

Blasters should get Dark Blast before Red Blast, but eventually one or the other. As for manipulation, I have no clue, that's a new set, not a prolif.

Corruptors should get Archery, Trick Arrow, and Force Fields. Seriously. Oh, maybe /Poison too.

Masterminds would be fine with /Sonic.

Brutes should get a Broadsword. As for others, perhaps Ice Melee/Ice Armor. I don't think the -Recharge is going to hurt brutes like it did in the past.

Stalkers should also get Ice/Ice. If brutes can't get it, at least give it to these folks.

Doms should get Illusion for a primary(As an alternative to making a new one, unless they make a new one). For secondary, I have no idea, they have to make a new one. Dark Assault sounds fine, give them Shadow Maul so they can skip it.

Power Proliferation will keep a lot more people subscribed to the game than new TFs or SFs. And it's not THAT hard to do when it's copy/pasting data over. The new power creation for the secondaries and primaries that have nothing that can be copy/pasted over is what usually makes it take so long... but eh, life goes on.

We can only dream. Until then, go go MA. I wish I could have awesome power set combos like the enemies can have in the MA. Psionic Assault/Dark Armor would be so awesome(And overpowered).

[AquaJAWS]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would Shield Charge be removed?

[/ QUOTE ]
Meant no offense by it. My reasoning was when they proliferated electric armor over they took out lightning field as an offensive power on the secondary. I could be wrong. This is all just speculation and guesses anyways.

[Alpha_Zulu]

[ QUOTE ]

Brutes &gt; Scrappers &gt; Tanks.



[/ QUOTE ]

Probably the only thing I've agreed with you on. But yeah, lolscrappers and loltanks. Brutes are the [censored].

[Zem]

[ QUOTE ]
Meant no offense by it. My reasoning was when they proliferated electric armor over they took out lightning field as an offensive power on the secondary. I could be wrong. This is all just speculation and guesses anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh... I see where you're coming from now. No, Lightning Field was removed because it's a damage/taunt aura toggle. Stalkers don't get those because running them would drop you out of Hide as soon as you run past someone who is hit by it. And also because Stalkers don't get taunts in their primary/secondary powersets.

Dark Armor is a bit of an exception because it had 3 toggle auras that would interfere with Hide. The taunt/damage aura was removed, as usual, but the fear and stun auras were left in and are a micro-management problem for Stalkers that take them.

[Shahadat]

Just one question for the devs:

Where are the electricity Controllers?

We have the tech costumes that make this fit. I can think of 3 Holds 1 being a group hold, a pet summoning, even an AoE that could be used. I know many people would hate it, but I am just too big of a fan of the end drain to not have that option.

[DarkSideLeague]

[ QUOTE ]
Just one question for the devs:

Where are the electricity Controllers?

We have the tech costumes that make this fit. I can think of 3 Holds 1 being a group hold, a pet summoning, even an AoE that could be used. I know many people would hate it, but I am just too big of a fan of the end drain to not have that option.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it would need a large number of new powers. Mental Manipulation was pushing it with World Of Confusion.

[Diesel Punk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just one question for the devs:

Where are the electricity Controllers?

We have the tech costumes that make this fit. I can think of 3 Holds 1 being a group hold, a pet summoning, even an AoE that could be used. I know many people would hate it, but I am just too big of a fan of the end drain to not have that option.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it would need a large number of new powers. Mental Manipulation was pushing it with World Of Confusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think he was just phrasing that as in general, not within the scope of Proliferation.

However, Where are the Dark/Dark Blasters, And Dark Control? Dark Miasma is nearly done for Dark Control ;)

[Celestial_Fury]

I want a Kinetic Scrapper!!!

[Da_Captain]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just one question for the devs:

Where are the electricity Controllers?

We have the tech costumes that make this fit. I can think of 3 Holds 1 being a group hold, a pet summoning, even an AoE that could be used. I know many people would hate it, but I am just too big of a fan of the end drain to not have that option.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it would need a large number of new powers. Mental Manipulation was pushing it with World Of Confusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure? There is already a ST Immo, ST hold, AoE Immo, PBAoE End Drain (figured Elec/ control would consist of End Draining as its form of control), a toggle that drains end and damages, an AoE Stun, and a pet. All it would need is an AoE hold, and another AoE soft control (probably a sleep) or VS

Really when you look at it the only thing really stopping Elec control from being made is an AoE hold.

[The Grim Heaper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just one question for the devs:

Where are the electricity Controllers?

We have the tech costumes that make this fit. I can think of 3 Holds 1 being a group hold, a pet summoning, even an AoE that could be used. I know many people would hate it, but I am just too big of a fan of the end drain to not have that option.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it would need a large number of new powers. Mental Manipulation was pushing it with World Of Confusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure? There is already a ST Immo, ST hold, AoE Immo, PBAoE End Drain (figured Elec/ control would consist of End Draining as its form of control), a toggle that drains end and damages, an AoE Stun, and a pet. All it would need is an AoE hold, and another AoE soft control (probably a sleep) or VS

Really when you look at it the only thing really stopping Elec control from being made is an AoE hold.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just use ball lightning's animation and apply holds. Think up reason later.

[Oedipus_Tex]

Count me among the people confused about why Pain Manipulation and Poison aren't conceptual fits for heroes, but Radiation, Fire, and Battle Axes are. The rules seem arbitrary.

Empathy for villains also is a very easy fit for me. All it take to be an empathic villain is to empathize with a villianous cause and/or villainous people. Empathy is NOT, in and of itself, a postive or negative trait. There is a reason for the expression "sympathy for the devil."

What makes a person a hero or villain is *motive* not the nature of their powers. There are plenty of heroes with terrifying powers that they choose to use for good, and plenty of villains with seemingly innocuous powers that use them for evil. The whole thing smacks of early vesions of Dungeons and Dragons and the "Bards can't be lawful!" silliness.

[kojirodensetsu]

Pain Dom = Empathy

Anyways I would like to see some proliferation sometime as well.

[Diesel Punk]

[ QUOTE ]
Pain Dom = Empathy

Anyways I would like to see some proliferation sometime as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pain Dom = Pain Dom.

Empathy = Empathy.

They are not the same, dont try to act like they are.

[Biostem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pain Dom = Empathy

Anyways I would like to see some proliferation sometime as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pain Dom = Pain Dom.

Empathy = Empathy.

They are not the same, dont try to act like they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Empathy is to Pain Dom as Katana is to Ninja Blade

They are mostly the same, but differ in a few key places.

Villains will not be getting empathy, so don't hold your breath...

[Undead_Steve]

[ QUOTE ]
Villains will not be getting empathy, so don't hold your breath...

[/ QUOTE ]

And Heroes won't get pain dom!.....hopefully......

[Thirty-Seven]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villains will not be getting empathy, so don't hold your breath...

[/ QUOTE ]
And Heroes won't get pain dom!.....hopefully......

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that is very safe to say. Especially when one considers that the Devs took the time to make a "brand new" set just so they didn't have to give Empathy over to Redside.

[Hatred666]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villains will not be getting empathy, so don't hold your breath...

[/ QUOTE ]
And Heroes won't get pain dom!.....hopefully......

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that is very safe to say. Especially when one considers that the Devs took the time to make a "brand new" set just so they didn't have to give Empathy over to Redside.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I were to guess at least 1 set per AT getting proliferated it would be the following:

Blaster - Radiation Blast
Controller - Cold Domination
Defender - Thermal Radiation
Scrapper - Energy Melee
Tank- Electric Melee/Armor
Brute - Regeneration
Corruptor - Archery
Dominator - Illusion Control
Mastermind - Sonic Resonance
Stalker - Broadsword

[MrHassenpheffer]

Tank- Electric Melee/Armor
Brute - Regeneration

&lt;3

[Zem]

[ QUOTE ]
Empathy is to Pain Dom as Katana is to Ninja Blade

[/ QUOTE ]

Hardly. 7/9 powers are identical in name, description, and effects (except for AT inherent differences) between the two and the 2 powers that are different are an absolute requirement for Stalker primaries, Assassin Strike and Placate.

There is no such requirement for Pain Dom vs. Empathy and yet the two sets are even more different than Ninja Blade and Katana. Significantly different, I'd say. That's not a bad thing, just pointing it out. I don't mind that the sets are different at all, I just don't swallow the b.s. that they HAD to be different for concept reasons.

[ QUOTE ]
Villains will not be getting empathy, so don't hold your breath...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not, but I have some small hope the devs might dump this ridiculous double standard when considering future proliferations. Genie's out of the bottle already. Heroes have powersets that are decidedly un-heroic, so where is the harm? By not proliferating sets that you now see as un-heroic or not villainous, you're not changing anything or preserving anything about the character of each side.

[_Laxx_]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not, but I have some small hope the devs might dump this ridiculous double standard when considering future proliferations. Genie's out of the bottle already. Heroes have powersets that are decidedly un-heroic, so where is the harm? By not proliferating sets that you now see as un-heroic or not villainous, you're not changing anything or preserving anything about the character of each side.

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is, Pain Domination was made specifically to be the anti-thesis of Empathy. My bet is, when it came to the decision of "do we port Empathy over to villains or not?" they decided that they would probably have to rename the powerset and come up with new names for some of the powers. Empathy, as a name, doesn't sound villainous at all. During this, someone probably decided they should just make an entirely new set that's based on Empathy and give it a villainous spin, thus Pain Domination was born.

It's just as likely that Pain and Empathy will be swapped between sides as it is for it not to be, specifically because we really don't know what they have planned regarding Power Proliferation. While I'm not expecting it to happen anytime soon (especially in the light of the announcement when Pain was released where it was called the "anti-thesis to Empathy"), I'm also not convinced it won't ever happen. Anything can happen, so...

Regarding your claim that heroes have "decidedly unheroic sets", I think you're mistaken. A power is not inherently good or evil -- it's what you do with the power that decides your alignment. Move beyond your character's animations and realize that just because your Axe tanker is swinging down on to the skull of a ...Skull, that it doesn't mean he's cleaving him in half. The axe he uses against common thugs could have a flat edge, he could just be trying to intimidate the thug into surrendering (using the foe's HP bar as a meter to determine when he's given up, for instance), or he may realize that the very system that saves him when he's defeated is used to transport the villain to the Zig upon defeat, so any harm he may inflict is merely temporary as far as the game is concerned. It's all in how you RP it out.

[Zem]

[ QUOTE ]
My bet is, when it came to the decision of "do we port Empathy over to villains or not?" they decided that they would probably have to rename the powerset and come up with new names for some of the powers. Empathy, as a name, doesn't sound villainous at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's no bet. This is their stated reason.

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding your claim that heroes have "decidedly unheroic sets", I think you're mistaken. A power is not inherently good or evil -- it's what you do with the power that decides your alignment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh I quite agree, but how then do you reconcile this statement with "empathy doesn't sound villainous"? If you can imagine your axe wielder isn't actually splitting the skulls he shouldn't split (like say, a purse-snatcher in Steel Canyon) then I can well imagine a villain who empathizes with other villains.

It's really a paper-thin argument as to why villains didn't get Empathy. Again, if they want to go to all the trouble to create a new powerset, fine. I don't think it's necessary and don't want it to hold up future proliferations. That's my point.

[_Laxx_]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My bet is, when it came to the decision of "do we port Empathy over to villains or not?" they decided that they would probably have to rename the powerset and come up with new names for some of the powers. Empathy, as a name, doesn't sound villainous at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's no bet. This is their stated reason.

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding your claim that heroes have "decidedly unheroic sets", I think you're mistaken. A power is not inherently good or evil -- it's what you do with the power that decides your alignment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh I quite agree, but how then do you reconcile this statement with "empathy doesn't sound villainous"? If you can imagine your axe wielder isn't actually splitting the skulls he shouldn't split (like say, a purse-snatcher in Steel Canyon) then I can well imagine a villain who empathizes with other villains.

It's really a paper-thin argument as to why villains didn't get Empathy. Again, if they want to go to all the trouble to create a new powerset, fine. I don't think it's necessary and don't want it to hold up future proliferations. That's my point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I said Empathy, as a name, doesn't sound villainous. I was very careful with my wording because of my next point regarding power origin and "apparent" alignment. The powers in Empathy aren't inherently good or evil; however, the word "empathy" tends to invoke a sense of goodness or caring, and while the powers contained within the set don't necessarily apply to either, the over-arcing powerset name does.

Many of the powers in Pain Domination are either identical in function or design to Empathy with minor tweaks. The healing auras are the same but with different names. Absorb Pain and Share Pain are the same, but Share Pain gives the caster a buff for using it, etc. They both have their truly unique powers, though, most notably Pain's HoT aura and it's lack of a Recovery Aura, as well as it's PBAoE buff that's "similar" to Fortitude. At least, I think that's supposed to be the analog power -- I'll have to look that one up.

[Zem]

[ QUOTE ]
I said Empathy, as a name, doesn't sound villainous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the meaning of the word is neutral if you bother to look it up. You're confusing it with 'sympathy'. But even that aside, "doesn't sound villainous" is still a double-standard. 'Dark Miasma' hardly evokes anything good. Miasma is a word used to describe vaporous pollution or disease. And there are many examples of power names such as Eviscerate or Disembowel that sound more like means of torture than tools for fighting crime.

Again, don't get me wrong. *I* don't have a problem with these names, just as I do not have a problem with the name "Empathy" or "Poison". I say leave it up to the player to justify or roleplay the actual powers as some different thing entirely (if they even care about such things as concept).

I am just pointing out that "doesn't sound villainous" is most definitely a double-standard to use when it has not been applied to powers that heroes have access to. Heck, even Pain Dom itself has "Soothing Aura". Isn't that pleasant? :)

What's in a name?

[_Laxx_]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I said Empathy, as a name, doesn't sound villainous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the meaning of the word is neutral if you bother to look it up. You're confusing it with 'sympathy'. But even that aside, "doesn't sound villainous" is still a double-standard. 'Dark Miasma' hardly evokes anything good. Miasma is a word used to describe vaporous pollution or disease. And there are many examples of power names such as Eviscerate or Disembowel that sound more like means of torture than tools for fighting crime.

Again, don't get me wrong. *I* don't have a problem with these names, just as I do not have a problem with the name "Empathy" or "Poison". I say leave it up to the player to justify or roleplay the actual powers as some different thing entirely (if they even care about such things as concept).

I am just pointing out that "doesn't sound villainous" is most definitely a double-standard to use when it has not been applied to powers that heroes have access to. Heck, even Pain Dom itself has "Soothing Aura". Isn't that pleasant? :)

What's in a name?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you read the rest of my post, you'd see that I mentioned empathy tends to invoke a "sense of goodness or caring", which is why it doesn't "sound villainous". I'm all for just letting people RP what they want and I've never accepted the "doesn't sound villainous" excuse. However, I also realize that if wasn't for the way empathy is typically portrayed, Pain Domination would likely not exist. Whether or not that's a bonus or a negative is up for interpretation.

I'd like to see all sets (or tweaks of certain sets) to be passed to every AT that could theoretically use it, but I also know that can take as much time as making entirely new sets would. In my cursory glance around the game and the forums, it seems more people would prefer an entirely new set than simply "existing set, version 2".

I don't think it's a double-standard, at least not insofar as the developer's reasoning. Most of the time, the "not heroic" or "not villainous" is bandied about by the players themselves in an attempt to defend/counter their reasoning behind the desire to see/not see certain sets proliferated. The only standard I think the devs go by anymore is trying to keep a bit of "uniqueness" to certain ATs by limiting or plain not allowing certain sets to be proliferated. How long that will last remains to be seen.

[Zem]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it's a double-standard, at least not insofar as the developer's reasoning. Most of the time, the "not heroic" or "not villainous" is bandied about by the players themselves in an attempt to defend/counter their reasoning behind the desire to see/not see certain sets proliferated.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't seem to search up the posts discussing why villains weren't getting Empathy directly, so anyone else feel free to prove me wrong but my *recollection* of those discussions is that the devs came right out and said they were not porting Empathy to Villains because they didn't consider it villainous. Hence the need to make a "Villainous version of Empathy", as Positron called it.

It wasn't about uniqueness, though that is also a worthy goal. Same reason given for Poison not going to heroes. Not heroic. Hence... a double-standard. This standard is not applied to existing sets like Dark Miasma and in the case of Empathy, as I've pointed out, isn't even accurate.

[Oedipus_Tex]

I don't see any point in locking certain sets to an archetype. It doesn't promote uniqueness to restrict them, because a character doesn't have access to all of the possible powers available to their archetype anyway. If I'm playing a Storm Defender it makes me not at all more unique that villains can't use Empathy, because I can't either.

[Aura_Familia]

Of course with the recently announced Going Rogue, restrictions are about to come off.

:p

[Bill Z Bubba]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course with the recently announced Going Rogue, restrictions are about to come off.

:p

[/ QUOTE ]

Brutes still won't have claws and therefore: Fail. Fix that an it's all win!

[Aura_Familia]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course with the recently announced Going Rogue, restrictions are about to come off.

:p

[/ QUOTE ]

Brutes still won't have claws and therefore: Fail. Fix that an it's all win!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes brutes won't have claws . . . for now. :p

I agree this doesn't stop proliferation that's needed.

[Virtual_Fighter]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course with the recently announced Going Rogue, restrictions are about to come off.

:p

[/ QUOTE ]

So...

What were you all discussing about Empathy and Pain Domination?

:p

They might as well proliferate everything that doesn't fit conceptually now, right? Since soon it appears we'll be seeing Empathy Defender letting out their evil side, what's the point in keeping Pain Domination from Defenders or Empathy from Corruptors? If any Empathy Defender is capable of being evil...sorta throws out the whole argument doesn't it?

[Zem]

Well, funny enough, the point NOW would be... why bother? They've already gone to the trouble of creating Pain Dom. At this point, why NOT keep Empathy as a blueside AT exclusive and vice-versa Empathy?

[Bill Z Bubba]

And with the rogue expansion, we'll get the superduperinthemiddle AT that gets to do truly stupid things like make an...

EMPATHY/PAIN DOMINATION CORFENDERDERRUPTOR!

[Golden_Pie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villains will not be getting empathy, so don't hold your breath...

[/ QUOTE ]
And Heroes won't get pain dom!.....hopefully......

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that is very safe to say. Especially when one considers that the Devs took the time to make a "brand new" set just so they didn't have to give Empathy over to Redside.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I were to guess at least 1 set per AT getting proliferated it would be the following:

Blaster - Radiation Blast
Controller - Cold Domination
Defender - Thermal Radiation
Scrapper - Energy Melee
Tank- Electric Melee/Armor
Brute - Regeneration
Corruptor - Archery
Dominator - Illusion Control
Mastermind - Sonic Resonance
Stalker - Broadsword

[/ QUOTE ]

Blaster - Radiation Blast
Controller - Cold Domination
Defender - Thermal Radiation
Scrapper - Electric Melee/Aura
Tank- EA
Brute - Ice Armor then Regeneration
Corruptor - Archery/TA
Dominator - Illusion Control
Mastermind - Kinetics
Stalker - Fire Melee

[Hatred666]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villains will not be getting empathy, so don't hold your breath...

[/ QUOTE ]
And Heroes won't get pain dom!.....hopefully......

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that is very safe to say. Especially when one considers that the Devs took the time to make a "brand new" set just so they didn't have to give Empathy over to Redside.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I were to guess at least 1 set per AT getting proliferated it would be the following:

Blaster - Radiation Blast
Controller - Cold Domination
Defender - Thermal Radiation
Scrapper - Energy Melee
Tank- Electric Melee/Armor
Brute - Regeneration
Corruptor - Archery
Dominator - Illusion Control
Mastermind - Sonic Resonance
Stalker - Broadsword

[/ QUOTE ]

Blaster - Radiation Blast
Controller - Cold Domination
Defender - Thermal Radiation
Scrapper - Electric Melee/Aura
Tank- EA
Brute - Ice Armor then Regeneration
Corruptor - Archery/TA
Dominator - Illusion Control
Mastermind - Kinetics
Stalker - Fire Melee

[/ QUOTE ]

I forgot about kinetics. I'll give you that. Stalkers, I still think they would get broadsword before fiery melee.