Click Powers, Animation rooting and You

[Castle]

Another post from the Animation Dept.
[ QUOTE ]
Hey everyone. The changes to toggle power animations and the standardization of what does and doesn’t root you should now be up on live. I just wanted to clear up any confusion about some other changes to click powers that also happened at this time. The only intended changes to rooting were supposed to be for toggle powers at this time. We’re in the process of standardizing click powers to follow their own set of rules, but they’re not going to be slightly different than the rules for toggles.

Right now, our intent is to use these rules for click powers:
1. AOE Heals will not root
2. Self Buffs will not root
3. Self Heals will not root
4. Everything else will.

You may have noticed some click powers that used to root you and now don’t. These powers snuck their way into the wrong build (see what happens when we don’t root them), and most of these will change back in the next build that makes it to live. Consider this an official head’s up.

Again, sorry for the confusion this has caused. We’ll get it all sorted out shortly and we thank you for your patience and understanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

[EvilGeko]

Cool.

Hey Castle, how about a typical Castle non-committal but still more information than we had before answer to the following question:

When do you expect I9 to be on test?

To avoid the answer 'soon(tm)' I'll make it multiple choice with the following disclaimer: You answer is assumed to be only an estimate and assumes that everything goes perfectly, a meteor doesn't fall on Positron and no one at Cryptic or NCSoft gets food poisoning from eating old pizza and mountain dew.

A - Within the next month
B - 1-2 months
C - 2-4 months
D - Soon(tm) as the term is used by Cryptic.

Extra credit if you can give us some idea about MoG.

EDIT: While I would love an answer to either question, I'm really just busting your chops for pure amusement value and hope you don't get annoyed as it was not my intention.

[Manic_Aggressive]

Nice- this should make for more mobile fights in PvE and PvP.

Until someone attacks that is. :)

[Mind Forever Burning]

Castle, your efforts to keep the playerbase informed are much, much appreciated. Keep up the good work :)

- Protea

[DumpleBerry]

Wait...pizza and dew can go bad? I wonder if that's what happened to my secretary... :eek:

Thanks, Castle!

[Click_Beetle]

How is that going to work with Twilight Grasp, I wonder?

[Dysmal]

[ QUOTE ]
How is that going to work with Twilight Grasp, I wonder?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, since TG and Transfusion are also enemy debuffs, I expect they'll root still.

[Mind Forever Burning]

[ QUOTE ]
How is that going to work with Twilight Grasp, I wonder?

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume that enemy debuffs will always root, overriding the 3 rules given. So Twilight Grasp, Transfusion, Siphon Power, and Fulcrum Shift will continue to root, since they all have enemy debuff properties in addition to the AoE heal or self-buff properties.

- Protea

[Pulsewave]

That information is cool, but the Futurama reference is even better.

"Ohhh, it's all so complicated, with the flowers, and the romance, and the lies upon lies!"

[Aett_Thorn]

[ QUOTE ]
That information is cool, but the Futurama reference is even better.

"Ohhh, it's all so complicated, with the flowers, and the romance, and the lies upon lies!"

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT.

"Don't worry, the lovemeister will take you under his wing."
"What, now there's a bird involved?"

[Doc_Kro]

Thanks, Castle!

[Blueeyed]

[ QUOTE ]
Extra credit if you can give us some idea about MoG.

[/ QUOTE ]
"It's a tier 9, and will still root for 1.5 seconds. Performing as expected."

What, you expect a fix?

Seriously, the power's designed to be situational, and actually mean it unlike the other seven powers in the set. It works well in those situations, particularly since most of us don't particularly enjoy wasting half a tray of lucks every six minutes, nevermind how many blues you'd have to pop to make up for that aspect of the power.

It does its job. You may not like what that job is, every /regen scrapper on earth known and unknown may not like what that job is, but it's not likely to change.

Although they really should buff the health level slightly to make up for the enemy acc changes.

[EvilGeko]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Extra credit if you can give us some idea about MoG.

[/ QUOTE ]
"It's a tier 9, and will still root for 1.5 seconds. Performing as expected."

Seriously, the power's designed to be situational, and actually mean it unlike the other seven powers in the set. It works well in those situations, particularly since most of us don't particularly enjoy wasting half a tray of lucks every six minutes, nevermind how many blues you'd have to pop to make up for that aspect of the power.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, it was just an inside joke with Castle as stated to be such. Jeez.

[Bonehead]

Didn't you see in the patch notes that the Sense of Humor power got nerfed?

[Snorii]

[ QUOTE ]
Right now, our intent is to use these rules for click powers:
1. AOE Heals will not root
2. Self Buffs will not root
3. Self Heals will not root
4. Everything else will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sweet, Hibernate won't root. ;) :p

Yeah, yeah, I know, timed toggle, tier nine.... giant block of ice.

[BackFire]

"Me want shnu shnu!"

[Shallow]

Aid Self falls under #2 and #3, but is Interruptable. I'm assuming it won't be subject to unrooting? Or is there a plan to abolish interruptables entirely at some point?

[Liquid]

Awesome. These animation changes are fantastic, and the communication on them is wonderful too.

I want to repeat my opinion that setting a balance point like "all self only buffs do not root" and applying it is a great thing, and any continuation of this design method will improve the game.

[BlueWrecker]

Hey Castle, crazy idea:

Let's take away -ATTACK- rooting on both players -and- A.I. mobs!

[deadcat]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Castle, crazy idea:

Let's take away -ATTACK- rooting on both players -and- A.I. mobs!

[/ QUOTE ]

that would make pve, and pvp unfun

[BlueWrecker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey Castle, crazy idea:

Let's take away -ATTACK- rooting on both players -and- A.I. mobs!

[/ QUOTE ]

that would make pve, and pvp unfun

[/ QUOTE ]

How, by making it more challenging and dynamic?

[Kamendae]

[ QUOTE ]
Aid Self falls under #2 and #3, but is Interruptable. I'm assuming it won't be subject to unrooting? Or is there a plan to abolish interruptables entirely at some point?

[/ QUOTE ]

Aid Self doesn't root *now* AFAIK. You can move to interrupt yourself.

Kam

[ProcessedMeatMan]

I gotta say, I'm really liking the new approach to power designs and rooting! Will this new method also be applied to powers that do damage and hold/stun/etc? If so, I hafta ask... will there be some sort of uniformity between these powers?
As a common example: Ice Blast and Sonic Blast - Ice doesn't spend much time rooted in place. Sonic is nearly hair-pullingly frustrating with it's attack roots. This disparity isn't so obvious (to me anyway) in PvE, but is a blatant imbalance between the sets in PvP.
The list could go on and on, but I thought I'd use this example because it's one I'm personally familiar with. Now, I know some of these powers are somewhat balanced around their animation times (at least that's a rumor I heard), but your input on this would be appreciated :)

[Hanged_Man]

What Processed Meat Man said.

[Lxndr]

So Leadership powers... they'll root again?

[ProcessedMeatMan]

Vengeance might, but the others = no.

[Zombie Man]

[ QUOTE ]
So Leadership powers... they'll root again?

[/ QUOTE ]

The first three Leadership powers are toggles. They follow the newly implemented toggle rules in that they now and will always be *un*rooted since they are self+ally toggle buffs.

Vengeance, however, is a click power. I don't know if they accidentally changed it to be unrooted, but because it is a self+ally click buff, it should root. If it was self-only click buff, then it shouldn't root. But once a click power involves allies and is not an AoE heal, then it roots.

[ProcessedMeatMan]

For some dumb reason I got Vengeance confused with Fallout... heh.

[PerezPersuader]

Hmm, remind me to check these changes out with my defenders/corruptors/bubblers -- sounds like it isn't going to be fun.

[Bonehead]

Don't forget the click power standardization hasn't actually gone into effect yet. Only the toggle one has. Plus, don't the 2 ally bubbles already root when cast?

[Alexio_DeAmore]

um, I hate to chime in here but...

The 9th level power for dark armor scrappers (the self rez) will now root you according to the power descriptions listed here and beforehand. This power just got significantly worse with no improvements.

If I rez and I'm rooted (unable to flee as long as it's activating) it means I'm going to die again. Especially since it's going to be nearly impossible to activate the dark armor toggles in time.

Dark armor keeps suffering with no love from the developers.

[ProcessedMeatMan]

Dark Armor has received it's fair share of love and nerfage over the years. No more or less than any other Scrapper set (save Regen).
I assume Soul Transfer now roots because it does damage... though it all kinda evens out! At least you can re-toggle a lot faster without those rooting you :p

[Rajani Isa]

[ QUOTE ]
Aid Self falls under #2 and #3, but is Interruptable. I'm assuming it won't be subject to unrooting? Or is there a plan to abolish interruptables entirely at some point?

[/ QUOTE ]

Rooting and being interruptible are two different things.

If something rooted you and was interruptible, you would be unable to interrupt yourself (outside of doing something like flying, using the power, and clicking fly off as you animated the power.)

[Captain Fabulous]

Oy... again, we get a statement of intent that's not entirely clear. Can we please get a little more clarification on this??

[ QUOTE ]
1. AOE Heals will not root


[/ QUOTE ]
Healing/Radiant Aura and Warmth are AoE heals, but so is Twilight Grasp and Transfusion. Will they be unrooted as well?

[ QUOTE ]
2. Self Buffs will not root

[/ QUOTE ]
Does this mean self-only (like Build Up, Aim, Rage, etc.) or will it include self+ally buffs (Recovery/Regen Aura, Inertial Reduction, Accelerate Metabolism, etc.)

[ QUOTE ]
3. Self Heals will not root

[/ QUOTE ]
Dark Regeneration, Siphon Life, and Life Drain are all self heals. Will they be included for unrooting?

Sorry to be a PITA, but how can we know if something is working correctly if we don't know the exact clear and concise parameters. Yes, we can assume powers that affect enemies won't be unrooted, but I'd rather not assume anything at this point.

And can I put my 2 cents into having Inertial Reduction unrooted regardless? There is no good reason to have it root (especially considering it's not a combat power), and it only takes one time of falling out of the sky like a stone to know this.

[Dalantia]

[ QUOTE ]

If I rez and I'm rooted (unable to flee as long as it's activating) it means I'm going to die again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, I have to question whether you're actually fleeing if you cannot get away and/or have your shields up and have hit Dark Regen (assuming necessary) by the time both the disorient and the invulnerability wear off.

If you're being mobbed, you'll pop up with full HP, anyway. If you're not, then they're going to be disoriented and wandering long enough for you to both beat feet and have your shields up to do so.

If they don't stagger around from the stun, then you're probably trying to solo an AV. ;p

DA has had plenty of love over the years. It is not suffering by any stretch of the imagination.

[Dalantia]

AoE ally buffs should not root.

Any power that affects a hostile roots. Transfusion and TG are debuffs as well as heals. Dark Regen and the various Life drains are attacks, as well as self-heals.

[Alexio_DeAmore]

No you don't get it. The rez power will now root you according to both sets of notes. That means that you can't do anything until the animation is finished (and that's a really long animation).

The stun and invincibility of this power aren't a benefit, especially since the invulnerability starts when you hit the button, not when the power ends.

[milks]

Now about making Haymaker look like a haymaker?!

[Arcanaville]

Since the animators are busy working on toggles and clicks, any chance they might have an explanation for why Super Reflexes toggles take a day and a half to bring up, and most of the animation frames for those toggle activations aren't even of us like, doing anything special animation-wise? Could we maybe get some of the extra time squeezed out of those extra long animations (specifically, focused senses and the insanely long evasion)?

[Dalantia]

[ QUOTE ]
No you don't get it. The rez power will now root you according to both sets of notes. That means that you can't do anything until the animation is finished (and that's a really long animation).

The stun and invincibility of this power aren't a benefit, especially since the invulnerability starts when you hit the button, not when the power ends.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am intimately aware of how the power works, thank you.

And I'm saying that it has never been an issue for me. It's a long animation, yes, but the stun is going to last a significant amount of time longer than the animation - and if you haven't been putting your shields up while the animation plays, then you're the one who doesn't know how the power works.

The stun is what would allow me to retreat, if I am actually doing so instead of simply getting up to kill everything in a 30 foot radius.

[Verdeman]

[ QUOTE ]
Vengeance, however, is a click power. I don't know if they accidentally changed it to be unrooted, but because it is a self+ally click buff, it should root. If it was self-only click buff, then it shouldn't root. But once a click power involves allies and is not an AoE heal, then it roots.


[/ QUOTE ]

Vengence is an AOE heal. The huge buffs are just a side effect.

[Blueeyed]

[ QUOTE ]
No you don't get it. The rez power will now root you according to both sets of notes. That means that you can't do anything until the animation is finished (and that's a really long animation).

The stun and invincibility of this power aren't a benefit, especially since the invulnerability starts when you hit the button, not when the power ends.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've never been able to cast other powers while the first power's animation is still going, whether it rooted or not.

Also, the invulnerability starts 0.25 seconds after you hit the button... not that this matters, much. It's still 10 seconds of invulnerability after a 1.17 seconds animation; you should still be able to pop a couple heal inspirations and retoggle, even if the animation pops up to 1.5 seconds.

[Verdeman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. AOE Heals will not root


[/ QUOTE ]
Healing/Radiant Aura and Warmth are AoE heals, but so is Twilight Grasp and Transfusion. Will they be unrooted as well?


[/ QUOTE ]

I would have to assume since they are also enemy debuffs that they will still root.

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
3. Self Heals will not root

[/ QUOTE ]
Dark Regeneration, Siphon Life, and Life Drain are all self heals. Will they be included for unrooting?


[/ QUOTE ]

All three of those powers deal damage to enemies so should still root you.

[Captain Fabulous]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. AOE Heals will not root


[/ QUOTE ]
Healing/Radiant Aura and Warmth are AoE heals, but so is Twilight Grasp and Transfusion. Will they be unrooted as well?


[/ QUOTE ]

I would have to assume since they are also enemy debuffs that they will still root.

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
3. Self Heals will not root

[/ QUOTE ]
Dark Regeneration, Siphon Life, and Life Drain are all self heals. Will they be included for unrooting?


[/ QUOTE ]

All three of those powers deal damage to enemies so should still root you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but like I said, I'd rather not assume.

[Pink_110]

I will give you five cookies if IR is unrooted :)

[MadScientist]

[ QUOTE ]
I will give you five cookies if IR is unrooted :)

[/ QUOTE ]

and I shall match that offer. Anyone else want to add to Lighthouse's cookie bribe?


All rules aside, when you have a travel-related power like IR, it needs to not stop your movement for 2 seconds. It's counter-productive.
If that can't be done, then perhaps IR itself needs an overhaul. Maybe a slightly longer duration, or faster casting time (.3 seconds of rooting would maybe not get noticed), or something.

[Zombie Man]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. AOE Heals will not root


[/ QUOTE ]
Healing/Radiant Aura and Warmth are AoE heals, but so is Twilight Grasp and Transfusion. Will they be unrooted as well?


[/ QUOTE ]

I would have to assume since they are also enemy debuffs that they will still root.

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
3. Self Heals will not root

[/ QUOTE ]
Dark Regeneration, Siphon Life, and Life Drain are all self heals. Will they be included for unrooting?


[/ QUOTE ]

All three of those powers deal damage to enemies so should still root you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but like I said, I'd rather not assume.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cut it out.

It's been made perfectly obvious that the click rules are more restrictive than the toggle rules.

If toggle debuffs root, even if they buff or heal, then so will click debuffs, even if they buff or heal.

It's pretty obvious that the only click powers that affect others and that will be unrooted are pure heals, like Healing Aura (which was already unrooted). Click Heals that add in extra buffs (Vengeance) or debuffs (Howling Twilight) will root as they've always been.

My question about click self+ally buffs was never answered until the clarification was made in the patch notes. Don't hold your breath for a redname to clarify this any further until the next patch.

[Zombie Man]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I will give you five cookies if IR is unrooted :)

[/ QUOTE ]

and I shall match that offer. Anyone else want to add to Lighthouse's cookie bribe?


All rules aside, when you have a travel-related power like IR, it needs to not stop your movement for 2 seconds. It's counter-productive.
If that can't be done, then perhaps IR itself needs an overhaul. Maybe a slightly longer duration, or faster casting time (.3 seconds of rooting would maybe not get noticed), or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is IR a toggle or a click power?

Group Fly (a toggle) used to root, but it doesn't anymore (under the new toggle rules). If IR is a toggle, it shouldn't be rooted. If it is a click, then it should root.

If it is a click and you don't want it to root, then you're asking for another exception to the rule. Comparing it to Group Fly probably isn't going to help make the case since Group Fly is from a power pool which specializes in travel powers. Travel powers found in AT powersets, on the other hand, (like Siphon Speed or Speed Boost) certainly do root. If IR becomes unrooted, then so should they... which is unlikely to happen.

[Krouget1]

Thanks for keeping us informed castle. :cool:

[DarthMord]

[ QUOTE ]
Cool.

Hey Castle, how about a typical Castle non-committal but still more information than we had before answer to the following question:

When do you expect I9 to be on test?

To avoid the answer 'soon(tm)' I'll make it multiple choice with the following disclaimer: You answer is assumed to be only an estimate and assumes that everything goes perfectly, a meteor doesn't fall on Positron and no one at Cryptic or NCSoft gets food poisoning from eating old pizza and mountain dew.

A - Within the next month
B - 1-2 months
C - 2-4 months
D - Soon(tm) as the term is used by Cryptic.

Extra credit if you can give us some idea about MoG.

EDIT: While I would love an answer to either question, I'm really just busting your chops for pure amusement value and hope you don't get annoyed as it was not my intention.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, you are bad EG. Bad bad bad.

Quit trying to storm our Castle.

[Prime_Knight]

The new animation and rooting changes worked great with SR.

All the toggles animated if I kept my scrapper standing still; if I moved while the toggles were activating the animation disappeared (there was no rooting). PB worked just like the toggles...groovy.

I didn't notice the back flips for elude...I don't know if it's because the animation was changed or if it's because I was in scrapper lock.

Anyway, great job!!

[Shadow_Stone]

[ QUOTE ]
3. Self Heals will not root

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this mean that pp Aid Self will no longer need interupts since it will no longer root you? Now you will be able to cast this on the fly if your not rooted correct? Or is the definintion of interrupt being changed from movement or being attacked to just attacked? Or will this be an exception to rule, or does the rul not apply to power pools?

[Blueeyed]

Interruptable powers never root you - you can always move as soon as they begin activating. Such will, however, interrupt said power.

The two mechanics are completely separate.

[Spud_Lover]

[ QUOTE ]
You may have noticed some click powers that used to root you and now don’t. These powers snuck their way into the wrong build (see what happens when we don’t root them), and most of these will change back in the next build that makes it to live. Consider this an official head’s up.

Again, sorry for the confusion this has caused. We’ll get it all sorted out shortly and we thank you for your patience and understanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's time you guys fixed your development process.

It's broken.

[Emnity]

[ QUOTE ]
um, I hate to chime in here but...

The 9th level power for dark armor scrappers (the self rez) will now root you according to the power descriptions listed here and beforehand. This power just got significantly worse with no improvements.

If I rez and I'm rooted (unable to flee as long as it's activating) it means I'm going to die again. Especially since it's going to be nearly impossible to activate the dark armor toggles in time.

Dark armor keeps suffering with no love from the developers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol come on now we all know that if this actually is the case on live then it will be changed shortly.

[MadScientist]

[ QUOTE ]
If it is a click and you don't want it to root, then you're asking for another exception to the rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

So?

Really, what would be the problem if IR's description said "unlike other click powers, this power does not root you in place while activiting." sounds like "the secondary damage of this power does not build Fury" or "unlike other stealth powers this does not reduce your movement speed" any other exceptions to general power design rules. Yes, it's asking for an exception, as you say, but it seems a very reasonable request given the nature of the power.

Siphon Speed is not a good comparison as it's also a debuff.
Group Fly wasn't used as a comparison cause it's toggle vs click here - I'm not sure IR could ever be a toggle like GF because of range and movement issues. Guess you could revamp IR completely to be a toggle that anchors on anyone in range when it's activated, but I'm not sure how balanced that would be.

[MadScientist]

[ QUOTE ]
Interruptable powers never root you - you can always move as soon as they begin activating. Such will, however, interrupt said power.

The two mechanics are completely separate.

[/ QUOTE ]

To put it another way, even though you click them, they're not Click Powers - they're Interruptable Powers, a completely separate catagory not governed by any of this.

[anarchicgorilla]

[ QUOTE ]
Another post from the Animation Dept.
[ QUOTE ]
Hey everyone. The changes to toggle power animations and the standardization of what does and doesn’t root you should now be up on live. I just wanted to clear up any confusion about some other changes to click powers that also happened at this time. The only intended changes to rooting were supposed to be for toggle powers at this time. We’re in the process of standardizing click powers to follow their own set of rules, but they’re not going to be slightly different than the rules for toggles.

Right now, our intent is to use these rules for click powers:
1. AOE Heals will not root
2. Self Buffs will not root
3. Self Heals will not root
4. Everything else will.

You may have noticed some click powers that used to root you and now don’t. These powers snuck their way into the wrong build (see what happens when we don’t root them), and most of these will change back in the next build that makes it to live. Consider this an official head’s up.

Again, sorry for the confusion this has caused. We’ll get it all sorted out shortly and we thank you for your patience and understanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


Out of curiosity just how far does this new balance idea extend? It is clear that rooting times for powers mentioned above were not standardized for balance, no does it appear animation times were/are. The rooting portion seems to be on the fix boards, atleast for the powers you mentioned. However:

1) Can we expect such a fix to trickle down into the attacks also? For example, if blazing arrow has a 3 second rooting and blaze roots for but 1 second can we expect to see some sort of standard where all attacks root for the same amount of time or root for a standard amount of time based on the damage they do?

2) Is there any thing in on the plate that would suggest the rooting fixes will continue and we will see some sort of animation standard for balance issues? So that a set like elect. which has about 2 second animation times balances with a set like ice which has about 1 second animation times as far as the damage per second (dmg / animation) is concerned. This type of balance ties directly to chain potential and to a certian extent burst potential for sets, so can we exepect to see a fix to balance issues regarding these factors in the future?

[VoodooCompany]

[ QUOTE ]
Is IR a toggle or a click power?


[/ QUOTE ]

Click power.
Self/AoE buff (+jump)
No effect on mobs/no debuff.

[Zombie Man]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You may have noticed some click powers that used to root you and now don’t. These powers snuck their way into the wrong build (see what happens when we don’t root them), and most of these will change back in the next build that makes it to live. Consider this an official head’s up.

Again, sorry for the confusion this has caused. We’ll get it all sorted out shortly and we thank you for your patience and understanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's time you guys fixed your development process.

It's broken.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously there was confusion or a lack of clarity among the devs over the scope of the changes. When the changes hit Test, we, the players, caught the discrepancies. Within a week, a new patch dealt with most of the discrepancies and we've been informed that the next few patches will deal with the rest.

The Community Rep and a Developer and the animator were all reading and responding to our posts over this. As much as I've been critical of the development and QA process in the past, this round of changes and patches had exemplary responsiveness from NCSoft and Cryptic.

I am well pleased. I wished the development and QA of all the patches and issues went like this.

[Zombie Man]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another post from the Animation Dept.
[ QUOTE ]
Hey everyone. The changes to toggle power animations and the standardization of what does and doesn’t root you should now be up on live. I just wanted to clear up any confusion about some other changes to click powers that also happened at this time. The only intended changes to rooting were supposed to be for toggle powers at this time. We’re in the process of standardizing click powers to follow their own set of rules, but they’re not going to be slightly different than the rules for toggles.

Right now, our intent is to use these rules for click powers:
1. AOE Heals will not root
2. Self Buffs will not root
3. Self Heals will not root
4. Everything else will.

You may have noticed some click powers that used to root you and now don’t. These powers snuck their way into the wrong build (see what happens when we don’t root them), and most of these will change back in the next build that makes it to live. Consider this an official head’s up.

Again, sorry for the confusion this has caused. We’ll get it all sorted out shortly and we thank you for your patience and understanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


Out of curiosity just how far does this new balance idea extend? It is clear that rooting times for powers mentioned above were not standardized for balance, no does it appear animation times were/are. The rooting portion seems to be on the fix boards, atleast for the powers you mentioned. However:

1) Can we expect such a fix to trickle down into the attacks also?

2) Is there any thing in on the plate that would suggest the rooting fixes will continue and we will see some sort of animation standard for balance issues?

[/ QUOTE ]


It is my understanding that when it comes to attack powers, animation time has been included in the balancing of the power. If a power takes a long time to animate, e.g., then they've already compensated for it in some other way by reducing its END, or Recharge, or increasing its ACC or Damage. So, for attack powers, it's a little bit more difficult to standardize animation time since many other factors come into play.

That's not to say animation times haven't been tweaked in the past or that they won't revisit animations of attack powers and rebalance them in the future. If you think certain powers have inordinately long attack animations, the best thing to do is to find some other attack that has similar END, Recharge, ACC, and Damage but a shorter animation and complain that the one with the longer animation time is unbalanced. Right now, the onus is on the players to make the case that the animation is too long and unbalancing and to do so with numbers, not simply saying 'I wanna shorter animation just because.'

[Zombie Man]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If it is a click and you don't want it to root, then you're asking for another exception to the rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

So?

Really, what would be the problem if IR's description said "unlike other click powers, this power does not root you in place while activiting."

[/ QUOTE ]


Well, it seems to fly in the face of the idea of standardizing buffs. If that click self+ally power becomes unrooted, then why not all the other click self+ally powers? There needs to be a compelling reason to except it from the rule.

Which leads me to question why click self+ally powers should root except for healing auras? The healing aura is an exception to the rule. So, in this regard, I'm on your side in questioning the new policy for click self+ally powers. If they want standardization, then standardize. If they start making exception for the team heal buff, then why stop there? Make IR and Group Invisibility and Recovery Aura and Accelerate Metabolism and Vengeance all unrooted, too. If I can heal myself and my teammates while running, why can't I make myself and my teammates invisible while running?

[anarchicgorilla]

From my understanding and some of this is based off of replies from Arcanaville, whom I find very knowledgable about stuff pertaining, animations are not (atleast at this time) factored into balance.

[Captain Fabulous]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I will give you five cookies if IR is unrooted :)

[/ QUOTE ]

and I shall match that offer. Anyone else want to add to Lighthouse's cookie bribe?


All rules aside, when you have a travel-related power like IR, it needs to not stop your movement for 2 seconds. It's counter-productive.
If that can't be done, then perhaps IR itself needs an overhaul. Maybe a slightly longer duration, or faster casting time (.3 seconds of rooting would maybe not get noticed), or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is IR a toggle or a click power?

Group Fly (a toggle) used to root, but it doesn't anymore (under the new toggle rules). If IR is a toggle, it shouldn't be rooted. If it is a click, then it should root.

If it is a click and you don't want it to root, then you're asking for another exception to the rule. Comparing it to Group Fly probably isn't going to help make the case since Group Fly is from a power pool which specializes in travel powers. Travel powers found in AT powersets, on the other hand, (like Siphon Speed or Speed Boost) certainly do root. If IR becomes unrooted, then so should they... which is unlikely to happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

IR is a click PbAoE self+ally super jump power. It is not foe targeted.

And yes, I'm asking for another exception to the rule, the same exception that applies to Healing/Radiant Aura and Warmth.

IR is a travel power. It grants nothing but +jump. Tho I have seen kins use it in battle, such use is dubious at best.

Honesly, I would rather see it changed to a self-only buff and made unrooted instead of a PbAoE buff that roots. I am sick and tired of falling out of the sky everytime it needs to be recast mid-leap.

[Arcanaville]

[ QUOTE ]
From my understanding and some of this is based off of replies from Arcanaville, whom I find very knowledgable about stuff pertaining, animations are not (atleast at this time) factored into balance.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be specific: its clear they are attempting to be systematic about some elements of cast times and rooting, but the devs do not have any sort of specific rules about individual powers being strength-balanced around their activation times. For example, eagle's claw takes longer to cast than headsplitter, but headsplitter does more damage. This is not considered a problem as far as how those attacks are designed.

Alternatively, when I say evasion takes almost three times longer to activate than the average toggle, and that should be reduced, the devs are very likely to consider that a quality of life suggestion, and not a balance suggestion.

[anarchicgorilla]

Well the comaprasion would not be between say eagle claw which has a 12 rchg and head splitter which has a 14 rchg. Each with a different endx cost. This is not the comparison I am speaking of. An example would be:

Ice blast: 4.56 BI, 8 rchg, 8.528 cost and 1 second animation
compared to
Lightning bolt with the same BI, cost and rchg but double the animation time.

Here we see 2x the animation for in effect the same dmg, rchg, and endurance cost and while this is a single power this compounds when we see this trend through a set like ice being quick animaiton and elec being longer thoughout the set. Would this not be a quality issue aswell? This also applies to rooting as many Archery can tell you a 3 second rooting can be the death of you where a 1 second root can make a world of difference.

[ValkyrieRising]

<QR>

Wow...

It never ceases to amaze me... the extent that people will twist something that should be blantently obvious.

_Castle_, little request next time for you/the animators. Try saying PBAoE Heals instead of AoE heals. That will massively cut down a lot of the confusion here.

Transfusion, Transference, Twilight Grasp, Siphon Life, Dark Regeneration... those are all attacks. Whether they do damage or a debuff doesn't matter. The initial form of the power is an attack, therefore, this change doesn't apply. Come on guys, do they really have to spell this all out for you? They removed the rooting from Warmth for a reason.

Self-heals:
Healing Flames
Dull Pain
Reconstruction
Essence Boost
Reform Essence
Earth's Embrace

(all powers that *only* affect the caster)

And as others have pointed out, interrupt is not the same thing as rooting, so Aid Self doesn't apply to these changes.

That a bit more clear for folks?

[MadScientist]

[ QUOTE ]
I am sick and tired of falling out of the sky everytime it needs to be recast mid-leap.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sick of falling out of the sky when its duration ends, never mind if I'm reactivating it or not. :p

You said it, though. Seeing as the power is 100% about movement, it could easily qualify to an exception to movement-based rules. I would expect that exception for other movement click powers, too, should there ever be any.

In general, the whole power needs to be reexamined, I think. It's duration is slightly less than it's natural recharge time, which makes it kind of silly as a travel power. Between the time you stand still activating it and the time to get it to recharge, you end up covering less ground in the same time than Superjump does - that doesn't seem right to me considering it's 1) a much higher level power with 2) a larger End cost over that same time than SJ and 3) not going to help you get Acrobatics.

[EarthDragon_NA]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Castle, crazy idea:

Let's take away -ATTACK- rooting on both players -and- A.I. mobs!

[/ QUOTE ]

That way you really couldn't stop kiting.

[Blueeyed]

[ QUOTE ]
It's duration is slightly less than it's natural recharge time, which makes it kind of silly as a travel power.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its duration is 60 seconds, as is the base recharge. There is a 2.03 second animation that gets in the way, though.

[ QUOTE ]
2) a larger End cost over that same time than SJ

[/ QUOTE ]

IR costs 23.4 endurance every ~60 seconds, or 0.39 end/sec.
SJ costs 0.23 endurance every 0.5 seconds, or 0.46 end/sec. If you're jumping more than 50 seconds but less than 60, it'll save you endurance.

That's not to say I would complain if it, say, got a couple seconds sliced off the recharge, and was turned to a much faster or instant activation (see PeaceBringer Quantum Flight for an example) and dropped in price. Just that it's more a quality of life issue than a balance one.

I mean, if I wanted to add 2 seconds to my escape time, pay lump sums for my travel powers, and plummet from the sky, I would have just picked up Teleport like I do with every other character.

[Creole Ned]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You may have noticed some click powers that used to root you and now don’t. These powers snuck their way into the wrong build (see what happens when we don’t root them), and most of these will change back in the next build that makes it to live. Consider this an official head’s up.

Again, sorry for the confusion this has caused. We’ll get it all sorted out shortly and we thank you for your patience and understanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's time you guys fixed your development process.

It's broken.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously there was confusion or a lack of clarity among the devs over the scope of the changes. When the changes hit Test, we, the players, caught the discrepancies. Within a week, a new patch dealt with most of the discrepancies and we've been informed that the next few patches will deal with the rest.

The Community Rep and a Developer and the animator were all reading and responding to our posts over this. As much as I've been critical of the development and QA process in the past, this round of changes and patches had exemplary responsiveness from NCSoft and Cryptic.

I am well pleased. I wished the development and QA of all the patches and issues went like this.

[/ QUOTE ]
This sums up my own point of view as well. I've been critical about the devs' processes before but they've been communicative and responsive over these particular issues and I'm very happy to see it. I offer them virtual cookies in gratitude!

I also want to throw my support behind unrooting Inertial Reduction. It's basically an AoE click version of super jump. Unrooting it will only make it work better as a travel power, it's obvious and primary purpose. I can't see any reason in favor of keeping it rooted apart from consistency -- but the game already has a number of powers that are excepted from rules.

[ArcadeHero]

that makes life so much easier.

[Captain Fabulous]

Been playing quite a bit this weekend and I found something off with Practiced Brawler (click self buff). If you're in motion when the power goes off you don't get an animation, no problem.

But if you're standing still, such as in combat, with Practiced Brawler on auto (as most people I would think have it set) and the animation starts (cause you're not in motion at the time) you can't get another power to activate until the animation is done. Clicking on any other power will just queue it till PB's animation is over.

Anyone finding any other click self buffs doing this? I gotta think this is some kind of bug.

[StratoNexus]

[ QUOTE ]
Clicking on any other power will just queue it till PB's animation is over.

[/ QUOTE ]
That is the way it should work. The activation time on these powers have not been removed, they just no longer require you to stay still.

[kylite]

[ QUOTE ]
Another post from the Animation Dept.
[ QUOTE ]
Hey everyone. The changes to toggle power animations and the standardization of what does and doesn’t root you should now be up on live. I just wanted to clear up any confusion about some other changes to click powers that also happened at this time. The only intended changes to rooting were supposed to be for toggle powers at this time. We’re in the process of standardizing click powers to follow their own set of rules, but they’re not going to be slightly different than the rules for toggles.

Right now, our intent is to use these rules for click powers:
1. AOE Heals will not root
2. Self Buffs will not root
3. Self Heals will not root
4. Everything else will.

You may have noticed some click powers that used to root you and now don’t. These powers snuck their way into the wrong build (see what happens when we don’t root them), and most of these will change back in the next build that makes it to live. Consider this an official head’s up.

Again, sorry for the confusion this has caused. We’ll get it all sorted out shortly and we thank you for your patience and understanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Minor comment from a bot/dark Mastermind. The AOE heal on the dark set still roots.

[Kamendae]

That would be because Twilight Grasp is an attack on the enemy - besides having the AoE heal effect, it also debuffs enemy ACC.

Attack trumps AoE heal. :(

Kam

[ValkyrieRising]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another post from the Animation Dept.
[ QUOTE ]
Hey everyone. The changes to toggle power animations and the standardization of what does and doesn’t root you should now be up on live. I just wanted to clear up any confusion about some other changes to click powers that also happened at this time. The only intended changes to rooting were supposed to be for toggle powers at this time. We’re in the process of standardizing click powers to follow their own set of rules, but they’re not going to be slightly different than the rules for toggles.

Right now, our intent is to use these rules for click powers:
1. PBAOE Heals will not root
2. Self Buffs will not root
3. Self Heals will not root
4. Everything else will.

You may have noticed some click powers that used to root you and now don’t. These powers snuck their way into the wrong build (see what happens when we don’t root them), and most of these will change back in the next build that makes it to live. Consider this an official head’s up.

Again, sorry for the confusion this has caused. We’ll get it all sorted out shortly and we thank you for your patience and understanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Minor comment from a bot/dark Mastermind. The AOE heal on the dark set still roots.

[/ QUOTE ]
I fixed the error that the animators made.

As the poster above me said and as I also did a few posts up, the debuff is the first effect, then the heal. It is an attack and should thus root you.

[Captain Fabulous]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another post from the Animation Dept.
[ QUOTE ]
Hey everyone. The changes to toggle power animations and the standardization of what does and doesn’t root you should now be up on live. I just wanted to clear up any confusion about some other changes to click powers that also happened at this time. The only intended changes to rooting were supposed to be for toggle powers at this time. We’re in the process of standardizing click powers to follow their own set of rules, but they’re not going to be slightly different than the rules for toggles.

Right now, our intent is to use these rules for click powers:
1. PBAOE Heals will not root
2. Self Buffs will not root
3. Self Heals will not root
4. Everything else will.

You may have noticed some click powers that used to root you and now don’t. These powers snuck their way into the wrong build (see what happens when we don’t root them), and most of these will change back in the next build that makes it to live. Consider this an official head’s up.

Again, sorry for the confusion this has caused. We’ll get it all sorted out shortly and we thank you for your patience and understanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Minor comment from a bot/dark Mastermind. The AOE heal on the dark set still roots.

[/ QUOTE ]
I fixed the error that the animators made.

As the poster above me said and as I also did a few posts up, the debuff is the first effect, then the heal. It is an attack and should thus root you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but Twilight Grasp *IS* a PbAoE heal...

[Kamendae]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another post from the Animation Dept.
[ QUOTE ]
Hey everyone. The changes to toggle power animations and the standardization of what does and doesn’t root you should now be up on live. I just wanted to clear up any confusion about some other changes to click powers that also happened at this time. The only intended changes to rooting were supposed to be for toggle powers at this time. We’re in the process of standardizing click powers to follow their own set of rules, but they’re not going to be slightly different than the rules for toggles.

Right now, our intent is to use these rules for click powers:
1. PBAOE Heals will not root
2. Self Buffs will not root
3. Self Heals will not root
4. Everything else will.

You may have noticed some click powers that used to root you and now don’t. These powers snuck their way into the wrong build (see what happens when we don’t root them), and most of these will change back in the next build that makes it to live. Consider this an official head’s up.

Again, sorry for the confusion this has caused. We’ll get it all sorted out shortly and we thank you for your patience and understanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Minor comment from a bot/dark Mastermind. The AOE heal on the dark set still roots.

[/ QUOTE ]
I fixed the error that the animators made.

As the poster above me said and as I also did a few posts up, the debuff is the first effect, then the heal. It is an attack and should thus root you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but Twilight Grasp *IS* a PbAoE heal...

[/ QUOTE ]

You're too focused on "PBAoE heal", and missing the main point.

TG is an *attack*. It debuffs the enemy. Therefore, it roots - no matter that its secondary effect is a PBAoE heal.

Kam

[Captain Fabulous]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another post from the Animation Dept.
[ QUOTE ]
Hey everyone. The changes to toggle power animations and the standardization of what does and doesn’t root you should now be up on live. I just wanted to clear up any confusion about some other changes to click powers that also happened at this time. The only intended changes to rooting were supposed to be for toggle powers at this time. We’re in the process of standardizing click powers to follow their own set of rules, but they’re not going to be slightly different than the rules for toggles.

Right now, our intent is to use these rules for click powers:
1. PBAOE Heals will not root
2. Self Buffs will not root
3. Self Heals will not root
4. Everything else will.

You may have noticed some click powers that used to root you and now don’t. These powers snuck their way into the wrong build (see what happens when we don’t root them), and most of these will change back in the next build that makes it to live. Consider this an official head’s up.

Again, sorry for the confusion this has caused. We’ll get it all sorted out shortly and we thank you for your patience and understanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Minor comment from a bot/dark Mastermind. The AOE heal on the dark set still roots.

[/ QUOTE ]
I fixed the error that the animators made.

As the poster above me said and as I also did a few posts up, the debuff is the first effect, then the heal. It is an attack and should thus root you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but Twilight Grasp *IS* a PbAoE heal...

[/ QUOTE ]

You're too focused on "PBAoE heal", and missing the main point.

TG is an *attack*. It debuffs the enemy. Therefore, it roots - no matter that its secondary effect is a PBAoE heal.

Kam

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not focused on anything. The previous poster said they "updated" the animator's post, adding PbAoE. I'm only pointing out that Twilight Grasp is a PbAoE heal, which doesn't solve the discrepancy.

And although it's highly likely that heals such as Transfusion and Twilight Grasp will indeed root you as they are foe-targeted, this has NOT been explicitly stated, and should not be assumed. Since other healing powers have been made exempt from the rule, you cannot say with 100% certainty that Transfusion and/or Twilight Grasp won't also be made exempt. That is all I've been trying to say.

If you take the animator's post as-is, Transfusion and TG would be exempt from rooting. We assume this is an oversight as we also assume that because they are foe-targeted this would take precedent over it being a heal, and would therefore root.

But this is purely an assumption. Past history and previous comments would lend a high level of credibility to it, but it is still nonetheless an unproven assumption.

All I have asked for is a clarification one way or another as I'd rather not assume anything.

[Castle]

Simplest way of thinking of it is "Any power which effects someone other than the caster in any negative way should root the caster during the cast animation."

Of course, that's a rule of thumb -- exceptions can exist.

[Captain Fabulous]

[ QUOTE ]
Simplest way of thinking of it is "Any power which effects someone other than the caster in any negative way should root the caster during the cast animation."

Of course, that's a rule of thumb -- exceptions can exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well alrighty, thanks for the clarification :)

[MadScientist]

[ QUOTE ]
Simplest way of thinking of it is "Any power which effects someone other than the caster in any negative way should root the caster during the cast animation."

Of course, that's a rule of thumb -- exceptions can exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

So.. Inertial Reduction... uh.. makes other people without Superjump feel inadequate?
Or is it some exception?
Or can we expect it to get some lovin'?
;)

[Captain Fabulous]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Simplest way of thinking of it is "Any power which effects someone other than the caster in any negative way should root the caster during the cast animation."

Of course, that's a rule of thumb -- exceptions can exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

So.. Inertial Reduction... uh.. makes other people without Superjump feel inadequate?
Or is it some exception?
Or can we expect it to get some lovin'?
;)

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's not what _Castle_ was referring to. He was speaking of powers that have a negative effect on others. IR doesn't fall into that category, but Twilight Grasp and Transfusion do.

Nonetheless, I'm with you on this one. IR should definitely and unquestionably be unrooted; included with the PbAoE self+ally+non-debuffing+non-foe-targeted heals as exceptions to the rule.

[Tic-Toc]

IR isn't a self buff, it's an self + ally buff...so it would fall under the catogory of powers that root.

[Captain Fabulous]

Unless of course it got an exception based upon the fact that it's not a combat power but a travel power, and therefore should be unrooted, much the same way the self+ally heals got an exception.

[ConFlict]

Any word when/if Kuji-In Sha is going to not root anymore. It is still rooting on test.

[Tic-Toc]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless of course it got an exception based upon the fact that it's not a combat power but a travel power, and therefore should be unrooted, much the same way the self+ally heals got an exception.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then all PBAO self/ally click buffs would be unrooted...

[Creole Ned]

No, it could be an exception. There are already exceptions, there's no rule that says "No more exceptions!"

I can't think of a good reason to keep Inertial Reduction rooted. It's a travel power and it's damn annoying to have to land every time it's about to expire so you don't fall out of the sky.

[Psygon_NA]

Well I can see one good reason it could be considered a combat power. It gives you and your team unsupressed movement in a fight.

[ValkyrieRising]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not focused on anything. The previous poster said they "updated" the animator's post, adding PbAoE. I'm only pointing out that Twilight Grasp is a PbAoE heal, which doesn't solve the discrepancy.

And although it's highly likely that heals such as Transfusion and Twilight Grasp will indeed root you as they are foe-targeted, this has NOT been explicitly stated, and should not be assumed. Since other healing powers have been made exempt from the rule, you cannot say with 100% certainty that Transfusion and/or Twilight Grasp won't also be made exempt. That is all I've been trying to say.

If you take the animator's post as-is, Transfusion and TG would be exempt from rooting. We assume this is an oversight as we also assume that because they are foe-targeted this would take precedent over it being a heal, and would therefore root.

But this is purely an assumption. Past history and previous comments would lend a high level of credibility to it, but it is still nonetheless an unproven assumption.

All I have asked for is a clarification one way or another as I'd rather not assume anything.

[/ QUOTE ]
Fine then. NON-TARGETTED PBAOE HEAL. That more clear? Castle's already provided the verification.

Good Lord, people love to nitpick every bloody little thing...

[Tic-Toc]

[ QUOTE ]
No, it could be an exception. There are already exceptions, there's no rule that says "No more exceptions!"

I can't think of a good reason to keep Inertial Reduction rooted. It's a travel power and it's damn annoying to have to land every time it's about to expire so you don't fall out of the sky.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not a travel power, it's a jump height/speed buff. That's an admittingly small, but crucial distinction. I see no reason why IR should be made exempt to rooting and not other click buffs other than you find it a bit inconvenient to use perma.

I think the goal here is to not have many exceptions and instead make sure that there is a set of rules that govern what roots and doesn't root, and make sure everything adopts them.

Who knows though, maybe your plight will be heard.

[Iceciro]

Gotta fall in with the group saying IR needs an unroot.
It's a travel power - I'd even accept the loss of the PBAoE part of it, as by the time you have it even on a Defender, everyone should have thier own travel power. However, I dont feel that that's necessary - it is wholy useful for travel, and falling out of the sky bites.

[SentaiRed]

IR is not a travel power. It's a movement buff, and it's an AoE buff, in the same category as AM, RA, and other such buffs. If they root you, there's a pretty good chance IR will, too.

If not, then hey, it's one of those aforementioned exceptions! Awesome.

[Captain Fabulous]

[ QUOTE ]
IR is not a travel power. It's a movement buff, and it's an AoE buff, in the same category as AM, RA, and other such buffs. If they root you, there's a pretty good chance IR will, too.

If not, then hey, it's one of those aforementioned exceptions! Awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

Y'know that's utterly ridiculous. So what is the distinction between a "movement buff" and a travel power? What is Super Jump [hint: a +jump movement buff]? What is Super Speed [hint: a +run movement buff]? How bout flight [hint: a +fly movement buff]?

I just find it odd that Inertial Reduction has the same base +jump as Super Jump, yet some people insist it's not a travel power. If it were meant for combat situations, then why would the buff be so large? Wouldn't a buff akin to Combat Jumping or Hurdle be more appropriate?

And have you ever tried to manuever around a battle after someone used IR? It's almost impossible cause the slightest little hop sends you flying across the room. If anything it's a detriment to battle, not a help. There are very very few situations that IR becomes useful during missions, and it's usually because one or more people need to have some kind of vertical movement (like when baddies hide up in the rafters), but don't (for example, if they have Super Speed).

[SentaiRed]

Fair enough. IR is a travel power, but it's also an AoE Buff.

Read the first post:

[ QUOTE ]
[...]
Right now, our intent is to use these rules for click powers:
1. AOE Heals will not root
2. Self Buffs will not root
3. Self Heals will not root
4. Everything else will.
[...]

[/ QUOTE ]

Notice, AoE Buffs are not listed among the unrooted bunch. IR will most likely be in the 4th group. It's still an AoE buff. Even if just for travel, it still temperarily buffs your allies' movement.

You might not use it for your allies, as they might already have travel powers..but that's what it's for. That's what it comes down to. An AoE buff for travel.

[SpaceJew]

It bothers me more that Speed Boost roots you, but hey, it's a buff for other people so I guess that's how it works. Not that big of a deal though since I'm super-speed anyway. The day I can't catch a team mate to put it on them is the day I start using sprint instead.

[Tic-Toc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IR is not a travel power. It's a movement buff, and it's an AoE buff, in the same category as AM, RA, and other such buffs. If they root you, there's a pretty good chance IR will, too.

If not, then hey, it's one of those aforementioned exceptions! Awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

Y'know that's utterly ridiculous. So what is the distinction between a "movement buff" and a travel power? What is Super Jump [hint: a +jump movement buff]? What is Super Speed [hint: a +run movement buff]? How bout flight [hint: a +fly movement buff]?

[/ QUOTE ]

One's a click, the other is a toggle. One affects allies, the other affects yourself only.

Those are pretty substantial differences.

[Captain Fabulous]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IR is not a travel power. It's a movement buff, and it's an AoE buff, in the same category as AM, RA, and other such buffs. If they root you, there's a pretty good chance IR will, too.

If not, then hey, it's one of those aforementioned exceptions! Awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

Y'know that's utterly ridiculous. So what is the distinction between a "movement buff" and a travel power? What is Super Jump [hint: a +jump movement buff]? What is Super Speed [hint: a +run movement buff]? How bout flight [hint: a +fly movement buff]?

[/ QUOTE ]

One's a click, the other is a toggle. One affects allies, the other affects yourself only.

Those are pretty substantial differences.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what about Group Fly then? Is it a "travel" power or merely a "movement buff"? And is your answer by virtue of it being a toggle, or being a self+ally buff?

I'm just trying to pin down exactly what your criteria is here. What constitutes in your mind a "travel" power vs. a "movement buff"?

[Mr. DJ]

kinda bugs me that Chilling Embrace roots me