Endurance Woes - Possible Bug

[UberGuy]

Something is wrong.

I have been playing my Stone Melee/Fiery Aura Brute consistently for several days. I have not just leveled. I am not using new powers. My character is level 40, so I have a very good feel for how it plays.

And I am running out of endurance far, far faster than I was yesterday.

Every one of my attacks that is part of my attack chain has two even-level endurance reducer SO enhancements in it. That means they cost 60% of their base cost. I have 3-slotted Stamina, again with even-level SOs.

My most expensive attack is Seismic Smash. It has a base cost of 18.512 endurance per activation. With two endurance reducers in it, it should cost 11.111 endurance per activation. Still expensive, but quite manageable.

This is a character that yesterday I could easily run through four to six spawns before needing to rest, because I have a self-heal and an endurance recovery power. Tonight, I am running out of endurance on single +2 spawns. I end such fights in the lower 1/3 or 1/4 of my endurance bar.

Something is wrong.

In trying to quantify what I am experiencing, I did the only thing I could, which was watch my endurance bar move around as I use powers. Since this is a Brute, I have toggles, so my bar moves down in little increments all the time, then jumps back up when I regain endurance on my Stamina-augmented schedule. My attacks clearly move my bar down, and most of the time the movement seems reasonable for the power.

Most of the time.

I have, several times now, seen Seismic Smash empty my endurance bar a huge amount; much more than the 11 and change endurance it should cost me. It is difficult to estimate accurately, but I would put it at roughly double that, 20 or so endurance. I was not fighting end-draining foes. (I carefully chose a Council paper mission, for example, for just that reason.) I was careful to check each time that I was not reasonably suffering some other effect, such as a Hasten crash. We've all seen paranoid posts about nerfs to accuracy and endurance before, and I don't want to be such a poster.

These observations give the appearance that, inconsistently, I am paying either double the reduced cost or the full, unenhanced cost of my attack; the small difference in those two numbers makes it difficult to know which on a visual scale like the endurance bar. But I have now observed it several times. I also observed a similarly huge cost on Heavy Mallet, my next-largest attack. This leads me to believe it may be occurring on my less expensive attacks as well, but I cannot clearly resolve the matter with them, because they move my endurance bar less due to smaller cost.

I've spend a lot of time getting this character to actually have manageable endurance burn, and I can tell that something is dramatically different tonight.

Something is wrong.

[at_Obscene]

Lots of people have reported similar over the last few months. Long threads with no resolutions. Maybe it's just my memory, but I'm noticing they all seem to be high level Brutes too.

[Biostem]

Not an ideal solution, but buy new end reducers and over-write the ones you already have slotted. Do the same for any and all endmods you have - overwrite the existing ones w/ new ones. It shouldn't be too bad since you're level 40, so you'll have a good amount of inf. Again, not an ideal solution, but I've heard it helped w/ other people. Also, if possible, check your end bar before using seismic smash, and immediately after. Obviously it'll be off by a few points, as there's natural end recovery to account for, but it can't hurt.

I played as my 50 em/da brute yesterday, both as a normal 50 and malefactored down, (to 25 in bloody bay and 26 as a malefactor), and didn't notice anything noticeable.

[ZadkielSalubri]

See my thread...

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6473315&an=0&page=4#Post 6473315

Turns out for me Focused Accuracy was the source of most of my woes, but even still, my 45 Tank is nowhere near the end efficient monster he was a few weeks ago.

[ValkyrieRising]

This (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=shibboleth&Number=6242928 &page=0&fpart=1) would probably be a better thread for the OP to check out...

[UberGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
This (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=shibboleth&Number=6242928 &page=0&fpart=1) would probably be a better thread for the OP to check out...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, I knew I had seen this discussed, and I went looking, found that thread again, and updated it with this info. I also sent a PM the way of the devs.

[UberGuy]

Sadly, replacing my enhancers didn't do anything. Given the nature of the behavior I'm seeing, I didn't really expect it to, but it had occured to me to try it even before seeing it here, so I tried it. Fortunately I only replaced the enhancers in my toggles and in Seismic Smash.

I went into a Freakshow mission and attacked a LT. The first guy was a Freak Juicer Champion (not sure that was his name, but he was one of the guys with the Tesla coils on the shoulders). These guys actually drain endurnace. I watched my endurance bar durung the fight with him. Nothing untoward happened, and by the time he was dead I had a net use of about 25% of my endurance bar.

Then I moved on to a Freak Smasher minion. During my fight with him, Seismic Smash did that thing again. There was a huge drop in my endurance. I was running Hasten, and I checked but it had not dropped yet (I had activated it when I attacked the Juicer). By the time this minion was dead, I was at about half my endurance bar.

Both these foes were +2.

You can see something went wrong there. I netted as much or more endurance use taking down a minion as I did an endurance draining LT before him, including the recovery I would have gotten in the 5-6 second gap between them as I moved from one target to the next (they were separate spawns).

[GenericVillain]

I think the devs are looking into this... I remember reading somewhere that someone got a pm from a dev saying that they've been getting these reports from a lot of reliable people. So I dunno... have you send say _castle_ a pm with the details of your testing and results?

[UberGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the devs are looking into this... I remember reading somewhere that someone got a pm from a dev saying that they've been getting these reports from a lot of reliable people. So I dunno... have you send say _castle_ a pm with the details of your testing and results?

[/ QUOTE ]

I sent one to Cricket asking her to pass it on to whoever seemed like the right folks. Hopefully that'll include Casltle if he's right folk. :)

[Luminara]

I've got $5 that says the inherants are bugged and costing endurance.

[UberGuy]

Like Fury? That would be hard to correlate with intermittent extra endurance costs, but who knows.

In as much frustration over the impact this has had on my Brute as intent to get a comparison, I switched to my Dark/Dark Corruptor, who's 38. I ran some missions and saw nothing comparable. Whether that means this is restricted to Brutes or not I don't have enough info to say. I'll try my Inv/EM Tanker tonight, and maybe compare that to my EM/Dark Brute.

[Castle]

I've been looking at this off and on for a few months (since I7 was released) and haven't found any replicatable evidence for it. I have seen enough reports from enough disparate sources that I believe there is something funky happening, but so far, I've not been able to track it down.

[UberGuy]

If there is any way I can collect detailed information from a client perspective, let me know. The effect is crippling. I've tried a few things and it wouldn't go away.

Since there was a patch today I'm eagerly looking forward to seeing if I still have the problem. I know that (obviously) there was no fix meant to be loaded for this today, but then again it's not like yesterday's patch should have miraculously infected my character, either.

On the off chance it's any help, I did do one vaguely endurance-related thing before I started playing in earnest yesterday, and subsequently noticed the problem. I slotted an endmod enhancement in Consume (I went from 2ACC/3RCG/1ENDMOD to 2/2/2). I did not try reverting it; it didn't occur to me it could have been related until now.

[Energizing_Ion]

As I have said before in one of the other threads I've noticed the same for my SS/Stone Armor brute. She was around lvl 37 (or 38) when I started to notice the end. change...

Recalling one quick event...I was in a mission and my fury bar was about 1/2 full and my end. bar was full (I think I used blue inspirations) and I targetted a foe around a corner and I hit 'tp foe' but I accidentally moved so that cancelled it out and I used tp foe again and this time the mob got tp'ed to me and I used KO Blow and then one other attack (I think Haymaker) and I was pretty much out of endurance after that one minion (probably either yellow or orange conned to me...don't remember).

I'll try to keep a more detailed log/description but...something is funky.

[Maalox]

I have experienced the same problems. But from what I have knowticed: It isn't that i'm being sapped/charge bolted (MU's)/ or Speck Op naded... it's that midway through a mission/outdoor travel/PvP, My toon will STOP recharging endurance. I mean NOTHING, and usualy what I do that seems to fix it is that I have to completely recharge my stamina bar with "BLUES" with my toggles turned off.

This has actualy been a problem since I6. However with all the new Master Minds being the FOTM no one really knowticed.

[UberGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
Recalling one quick event...I was in a mission and my fury bar was about 1/2 full and my end. bar was full (I think I used blue inspirations) and I targetted a foe around a corner and I hit 'tp foe' but I accidentally moved so that cancelled it out and I used tp foe again and this time the mob got tp'ed to me and I used KO Blow and then one other attack (I think Haymaker) and I was pretty much out of endurance after that one minion (probably either yellow or orange conned to me...don't remember).

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of curiosity, how is your KOB slotted? Does it have any end reducers in it?

[HeroVorkk]

Some suggestions for gathering data that you can give to Castle:

Remove all possible end saving things (enhancements, etc) from a couple of your low level attack powers. Malf down to level 19 to get rid of stamina. Turn off all toggles (including sprint).

Attack low level mobs (no danger to you) and note the end used for each attack and see if it is consistant with what should normally be expected. Note any inconsistancies.

Try that with a various mix of toggles on/off to maybe find a pattern. Un-Malf (to regain stamina) and try again.

Take detailed notes.

Yea, it sounds like a lot of work but deliberate tests using a deliberate plan may reveal something.

[KidQwik]

One thing I've seemed to notice and might be crazy is it seems when I finally slot an enhancement with a x5 or x0(15, 20, 25, 35, 40, 45, 50), and my enhancements are +3 with these typed of numbered enhancements, it seems they don't work as well as they should. For example if I'm 32 and slot with 35s it almost seems like the powers seem to be working less then if they were +2ed for like a 34 enhancement. It's almost like the enhancement is too powerful for my toons to fully get the hang of so they don't work too well until I'm a level that makes them only +2(35 seem to work better when I'm 33 and not 32). I know this sounds crazy but throughout the years playing my toons it's always seemed like they. They seem better when they are +2ed and not +3 x0's or x5. Anyone feel like they're going crazy too? I seem to notice this most with ACC's, Reduce Ends, and Endurance Modifications.

[Manchuwook]

I've noticed it most while running PvP missions in Siren's Call. The more I use a temp power inbetween missions, the more it seems to 'bleed off.' After the 14-15th mission, I'm resting between every other spawn to get back endurance. This is without Stamna in the build, so it goes pretty quick.

[UberGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
I've noticed it most while running PvP missions in Siren's Call. The more I use a temp power inbetween missions, the more it seems to 'bleed off.' After the 14-15th mission, I'm resting between every other spawn to get back endurance. This is without Stamna in the build, so it goes pretty quick.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh my. I just got Debt Protection, which is an auto power. I had no significant playtime between getting the power and noticing the problem yesterday.

If I still have this issue when I get home, I will copy to test, validate it still happens there, and delete the temp power.

Hey, I don't want to delete it on live for nothing. :)

[Major_Force]

I feel for ya castle.

Alas, I can be of no help in pinning it down. It seems to be random. By closely monitoring the endurance number (which ain't easy), I have definitely seen instances where certain attacks actually charged me double - but it isn't every time.

I do know I see it most often on my Inv/SS Tank than any other toon. But I have also seen it happen to my DM/FA Brute, Bot/FF MM. It happened once to my Ill/Rad troller.

Suggestion: spit out endurance numbers to a log so we can more easily document things like this and give you ample data to pin this down..

[Frosticus]

I feel for you, I have video evidence from my toon in i6 and then again in i7, showing a major decline in endurance performance. It is crippling to pretty much any toon that hovered near a balanced use of endurance:recovery.

That idea of the power either using the original cost or double the slotted cost kind of makes sense. I know a number of times I've been like "dang bitter ice blast just used a lot of end", but I've always just shrugged it off and figured I was just seeing things.

Anyway, check my sig to see that others feel the pain too. It's not fun and the fact that they can't pinpoint it is disheartening.

Frosticus

[Natsuki]

[ QUOTE ]
Suggestion: spit out endurance numbers to a log so we can more easily document things like this and give you ample data to pin this down..

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I think it would be helpful for more than just debugging, but thats me.

We should have "Endurance" channels like we have "Heal" channels. Like, Endurance Heal, Endurance Drain (for the restore/attack), Endurance Usage (So we always know just how much endurance a power uses), and Endurance Toggle Usage (which would be 'spammy' and off by default).

Don't need all of those channels, but would be nice. I've gotten quite tired of the "X has drain 'some' endurance from you" which turns out to be 80 pts of Endurance. Or "Charged Bolts restores 'some' endurance to you" some? How much? I didn't notice it. :)

[UberGuy]

Well, take this with a large grain of salt, because my test was not very scientific, but I copied to test, went into a mission, and seemed to have the problem. After a couple of suspicious dips in my endurance, I deleted the Life Insurance (Debt Protection) temp power.

I then played quite normally.

I am going to repeat the test and make more certain that I am having the problem with LI.

Note that this could explain the issue on high-level Brutes, as this is a level 40-44 Mayhem temp power.

This does not explain the issue on any Hero, or any Villain that's not completed that mayhem mission. Explanations I can think of there is that the problem is independant but made worse by the temp power, the problem is triggered by other temp powers as well (I have many and never use them), or this is all just a coincidence.

[Grave13]

adding my voice to the complaint, lvl37 MM henc/ff
i use to be able pop my pets, buff them with both upgrades, throw on all 3 toggle leadership and dispersion bubble and def and ins all six pets without running out of end. now i'm lucky to upgrade all the pets before the bar runs dry. for ench slots i have
Equip merc
36 end red, 37 recharge
tactical up
37 rech,39 rech,36 end red
deflection shield
2 lvl 36 end red
insulation shield
2 lvl 36 end red
dispersion bubble
2 lvl 40 end red
stamina
3 lvl 36 end enhance
maneuvers
2 lvl 36 end reduc
tactic
2 lvl 36 end redu
assault
lvl 36 end lvl 40 end
these are all SO's. no end rdeuce in merc summons.
Had not played my MM for about a week and noticed the change yestuday. i hope you can replicate this build and test it.

[Grave13]

well it just hit me why i saw the change, the temp power from the lvl 30-35 mayhem mish is an end boost, that would explain my problems. now i feel embaressed. :o

[UberGuy]

Just in case people wonder, I lost that temp power a while back. Level 38 or so. :)

[bekkar]

Some temp powers having an unintended end crash would be an interesting possibility...

[Natsuki]

The effect of the +5 End is rather negligible considering the issues some players have been describing.

Without Stamina, +5 End is +0.08 End Per Sec.

With Stamina with three even level SO's, +5 End is +0.12 End Per Sec.

Helpful? Sure.
Going to cause the issues players have been having going from 105 End to 100? I don't think so.


EDIT:

Just had a thought. We have "Conserve Power" which for a duration reduces the cost of all powers.

What if Life Insurance is an auto-power that has that in reverse by accident? Like, it slightly increases the cost of all powers. If it's something like a 10% Increase to Endurance Costs, than it would be unnoticeable with the majority of powers we use a lot (I mean in looking at the End Bar, a 5.2 end power that costs 10% more would be 5.7), but would be noticeable with powers that have 25+ Endurance Cost (A power with 25 End would be 27, and something with 30+ End would be 33), so perhaps this could be something that could be looked into. (Multiple AT's and multiple powers tested would be best of course)

Something like this would actually be close to what Frosticus experienced. Frosticus calc'd out the EPS of her slotting.

3.98 EPS before I7
3.73 EPS after I7

Now, let's factor in my theoretical 10% increase in endurance, and that 3.73 EPS becomes 4.1 EPS. Which quite well mirrors Frosticus' two vids.

Except, that Frosticus doens't have Life Insurance in the After I7. =\ Still, something somewhere seems to be increasing costs by around 10% it seems.

Whats even more interesting about Frosticus' two vids. The After I7 one, has the Blue Icon Accolade that the before didn't, which isn't it a +5 End boost? So, maybe its there too? Not sure of course, just kinda tossing out ideas now.

[UberGuy]

Well, I now truly understand Castle's inability to find or document this.

I copied myself to test, ran some combat, believe I saw big end drops. Sadly, test is very laggy currently, so it's possible that polluted the way my bar was behaving.

I tried removing Life Insurance, played some, seemed fine.

I deleted my copied character, went to live, played some, determined I was still seeing large drops. I recopied to test, no longer could spot the issue (didn't do anything to my temp powers).

Went back to live, played for three hours. No apparent problems.

What a pain in the [censored]. I'll take it, assuming it stays away. But what the hell...

[Necrotron_RO]

Could it be related in a similar fashion to the sound loop bug in that the data being sent to use a power is skipping and hitting twice, causing to be charged twice?

[Ciera]

Being one of the early posters identifying this problem, I have to say that I most notice endurance issues on my toons who have some of the most expensive endurance cost chains for toggles & click powers. Other toons apparently are much more 'efficient' endurance wise and never seem to drop below 75% full.

With my 43 Fire/Storm troller running Imps, Hurricane, Steamy Mist, a mob of 3-4 if I help my Imps by using Char, Fire Cages, Flashfire, I can pretty much drain my end down to 15-20% of the bar on one attack chain.

On another note, Leadership Pool powers are aparently waaay too expensive even fully slotted with end reductions, they drain out the same troller like he's got a hole in his endurance pocket. Running the 3 LP powers and SJing around Sirens or in a mish I can watch my endurance bar drain quickly, and if I use my attack chain, I can expect to drop all toggles shortly thereafter if I don't pop a blue or turn off LP powers.

As far as trying to exemp/Mal down lvls to test for the issue, the problem crops up in knowing how ED treats current slotting into whatever exemp/Mal lvl you drop to. Too many parameters to figure that one I'm afraid.

At least Cricket is still investigating!! So I continue to keep my fingers crossed even after 6 months of reports!

[Fixer]

Just thought I'd mention another high level brute who's run into this... my stone/inv peridically drops to near nothing on the course of a fight he could have taken easily before.

[Blue_Paradox]

Nothing scientific here, only that I don't really understand endurance. Leveled to 28 lastnight, picked up stamina. Now at 27, I wasn't really having any major endurance problems but still planning on stamina. So I picked it up, dropped an End Mod SO in there, and my endurance seemed to drain even faster than at 27.

Does endurance usage scale, like at level 27 if Shadow Punch uses 20 endurance, will it use 22 at level 28?

[Major_Force]

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing scientific here, only that I don't really understand endurance. Leveled to 28 lastnight, picked up stamina. Now at 27, I wasn't really having any major endurance problems but still planning on stamina. So I picked it up, dropped an End Mod SO in there, and my endurance seemed to drain even faster than at 27.

Does endurance usage scale, like at level 27 if Shadow Punch uses 20 endurance, will it use 22 at level 28?

[/ QUOTE ]

no - it is supposed to be constant.

[Zombie_Butler]

This is not tested or in any way codified, more of a "hey what's going on?"

I've set up my 50 DM/DA to be very efficient for end usage. Yes, hard to believe, but with endredux in almost everything, she can fight with all the cloaks running. I was testing out a new build for her (Body Mastery). My testing involves running the same three missions on live and then running the same three missions on test, and then taking the new build and running the same three missions (stopping just short of completing them). On live I had poor end usage where before I believed I had the problems solved. The wierd part was test, She was more efficient with End usage with Focused Accuracy running than the old Dark Mastery build. huh??? :o She has hurdle/leaping pool.

After I7 my Elec/Invuln Brute had terrible end usage when before I used to brag to my VG about how end usage wasn't a problem. She has swift/fly.

I wish Castle the best of luck in finding out what the heck is going on.

[Gunderwald]

I've got a L26 BS/Regen, no End redux slotting, Quick Recovery with 2 SO End Mods who seemed to be burning End much faster than usual, he runs with just Integration and Combat Jumping. I was bottoming out after one or two spawns. I also have a L20 Son/Son defender who had to keep Combat Jumping off because with it on he burned End far too fast. I'm wondering if maybe the price of CJ or the frequency of the cost got accidently changed? CJ used to be one of the cheapest toggles to run.

Other things I thought of as possibilities (many of which are completely off the wall), someone notice an increase in cost of about 10% for some, the ED End reduction was a 13% decrease, could it somehow be reverting to the pre-ED costs?

For the powers costing double, there is a chance it could be a networking issue where the "I'm executing this power" message is sent, the client thinks it didn't make it, so retransmits, but the server receives both messages and applies the End cost twice. But this is from someone with no real info on how the client/server communication in CoX is handled.

Just a couple ideas. I'll experiment with my BS/Regen tonight and see if I can spot any specific examples of excessive End cost.

[ZadkielSalubri]

[ QUOTE ]
The effect of the +5 End is rather negligible considering the issues some players have been describing.

Without Stamina, +5 End is +0.08 End Per Sec.

With Stamina with three even level SO's, +5 End is +0.12 End Per Sec.

Helpful? Sure.
Going to cause the issues players have been having going from 105 End to 100? I don't think so.


EDIT:

Just had a thought. We have "Conserve Power" which for a duration reduces the cost of all powers.

What if Life Insurance is an auto-power that has that in reverse by accident? Like, it slightly increases the cost of all powers. If it's something like a 10% Increase to Endurance Costs, than it would be unnoticeable with the majority of powers we use a lot (I mean in looking at the End Bar, a 5.2 end power that costs 10% more would be 5.7), but would be noticeable with powers that have 25+ Endurance Cost (A power with 25 End would be 27, and something with 30+ End would be 33), so perhaps this could be something that could be looked into. (Multiple AT's and multiple powers tested would be best of course)

Something like this would actually be close to what Frosticus experienced. Frosticus calc'd out the EPS of her slotting.

3.98 EPS before I7
3.73 EPS after I7

Now, let's factor in my theoretical 10% increase in endurance, and that 3.73 EPS becomes 4.1 EPS. Which quite well mirrors Frosticus' two vids.

Except, that Frosticus doens't have Life Insurance in the After I7. =\ Still, something somewhere seems to be increasing costs by around 10% it seems.

Whats even more interesting about Frosticus' two vids. The After I7 one, has the Blue Icon Accolade that the before didn't, which isn't it a +5 End boost? So, maybe its there too? Not sure of course, just kinda tossing out ideas now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt Life Insurance is the cause of it all, since it's happening to CoH characters as well.

[Two_Trick]

I had an interesting thing happen with my Stone/Elec brute yesterday. After completing the first Mako arc, I received the temp power "Power of the Leviathan," which is a +damage -recovery temp.

I had to at least try it out, ao I clicked the power, and three attacks later I was completely out of endurance, and it didn't come back at all until the power wore off. Absolutely 0 endurance for several minutes. I've had -regen temp powers before [Vaz Wasting Disease, the Lab Equipment effects, etc] but this was unbelievable.

[Anijo]

[ QUOTE ]
I had an interesting thing happen with my Stone/Elec brute yesterday. After completing the first Mako arc, I received the temp power "Power of the Leviathan," which is a +damage -recovery temp.

I had to at least try it out, ao I clicked the power, and three attacks later I was completely out of endurance, and it didn't come back at all until the power wore off. Absolutely 0 endurance for several minutes. I've had -regen temp powers before [Vaz Wasting Disease, the Lab Equipment effects, etc] but this was unbelievable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell me about it. When I got that temp power on my Stalker I was like "AWESOME!" and popped Elude and ran at an EB, thinking Elude would completely counter-act the end problem of the power... Not. It's like what MoG does to Health only to end, you CAN NOT gain endurance for the duration of the power.

Just a thought, on this whole Endurance problem. Could someone with a Stop Watch time the end ticks from a single Toggle with and without Hasten on?

Though iirc, most of the threads I've seen about this Issue have involved SS or SM... Seismic Smash and Knock out Blow are more or less the same attack with different animations, perhaps someone could sit down with KoB and use it 100 times in a row and record the end immediately before and after each use? I'd be willing to sit down and do the same for Seismic Smash.

[Anouke_NA]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been looking at this off and on for a few months (since I7 was released) and haven't found any replicatable evidence for it. I have seen enough reports from enough disparate sources that I believe there is something funky happening, but so far, I've not been able to track it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've noticed a reduction in endurance since i7 was released, but I assumed it was due to more endurance-affecting enemies than a change to my powers - perhaps this is where the problem is coming from?

[Ciera]

Nope, this issue is independent of villian grp/type faced. Endurance draining villian effects are plainly evident, ie Freaks/Malta Sappers, etc.

What many of us are experiencing is abnormal loss/failure to regain endurance post I7. This problem exists on both sides of CoX so it's something in the code.

My bet is probably a coded line which overcalculates the cost of all powers. The problem is that some builds will never see this problem because they are inherently economical, so those playing them never notice any appreciable loss. Conversely, those with 'expensive' builds see the endurance loss very quickly.



[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've been looking at this off and on for a few months (since I7 was released) and haven't found any replicatable evidence for it. I have seen enough reports from enough disparate sources that I believe there is something funky happening, but so far, I've not been able to track it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've noticed a reduction in endurance since i7 was released, but I assumed it was due to more endurance-affecting enemies than a change to my powers - perhaps this is where the problem is coming from?

[/ QUOTE ]

[Mind Forever Burning]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been looking at this off and on for a few months (since I7 was released) and haven't found any replicatable evidence for it. I have seen enough reports from enough disparate sources that I believe there is something funky happening, but so far, I've not been able to track it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're really committed to fixing this bug, give us a way to log the endurance bar, the way we can currently log damage dealt and received. This could be activated via a command, analogous to how "/showfps 1" and "/netgraph 1" work. It would be a lot of data, because it would have to be timestamped and show recovery as well as drains, but it would give you what you need to debug the problem.

Being a developer myself I know these things can be a real bear to pin down.

- Kris

[Jordan_Lee]

heh...possible solution? Double stamina's affect (and quick recovery) and cut in half all endurance costs....
Wishful thinking, but wouldn't that be sweet?

I've noticed this on my stone/fire tank quite a bit, she just turned 32 and I copied her to test to respec and try out a new build w/ lvl 35 enhancments. On live her attacks have no end reduce, and all toggles have at least one. On test all toggles had one or two, still no edurance reduction on attacks. and her end was gone after one mob (maybe 6-8 deathspores in creys). On live it's not that great, but not that bad, either. I'm glad to see this because I've been trying to find a way to perfect her build...maybe it's not all her fault.

[Anouke_NA]

[ QUOTE ]
Nope, this issue is independent of villian grp/type faced. Endurance draining villian effects are plainly evident, ie Freaks/Malta Sappers, etc.

What many of us are experiencing is abnormal loss/failure to regain endurance post I7. This problem exists on both sides of CoX so it's something in the code.

My bet is probably a coded line which overcalculates the cost of all powers. The problem is that some builds will never see this problem because they are inherently economical, so those playing them never notice any appreciable loss. Conversely, those with 'expensive' builds see the endurance loss very quickly.


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I'm experiencing the same thing, but rather than being totally dismissed in the first word how about we consider it as a possibility and rule it out through evidence.

Maybe it IS my imagination, but I have noticed a significant increase in the amount of times I've seen endurance being drained and by alot more villain types than before in my Combat window.

For example, Clockwork never used to bother me at all on their endurance drain - nowadays I can't work through a Clockwork mission without having to stop every group or two. Same character, same build. There are two areas to look at here without dismissing things outright.

[Richard47]

I have a kat/regen only just made 21. And I noticed an end problem around level 18 or so which would have been around 9/21. Up until then I had zero end problems with only Quick Recovery one slotted with endmod, but now even after three slotting it, I find myself with very low end sometimes. Course it only takes a couple of seconds to regen it, but I never really had to stop to end rest since level 4.

The only pool powers I have are hasten and ss. I stopped using hasten to see if maybe the crash was it, but it's not. I don't have hasten on auto fire so I know when hasten is on and off.

Since I'm a regen I do keep an eye on my health and end was never a problem except against long fights against HUGE mobs. Also since I'm only 21, I'm very inf poor so I don't have well slotted powers, and DOs only. No EndRed except for ss and and integration which I like to leave on all the time. I keep Quick Recovery enh green. No fly or jump enh anywhere.

Something I do notice is even after I attack and in between mob attacks I can see my end drop more than usual. It almost feels like I'm getting drained by someone. I've been mostly fighting the sort of mobs you find in Steel or Sky so just the usual villain groups.

I will bet anything it has something to do with the fix for the invisible mob bug. :P

[Valiant]

I'll add myself to the list of people whose end keeps poofing, at first I thought that It was all the Carnies I was fighting, but last week, I noticed my end was running out every fight with no end drain, fighting DE in the Crash Site.

I though it was my slotting, as my i7 respec hadn't really been tested against anything other then Carnival at that point. But tonight, I watch my end bar like a hawk, the results were... perplexing... It seemed that my attacks and shields would randomly forget that they had end-redux in them! For bursts of about two to three minutes, all my powers would be at full cost.

Since I had an empath with me, I did another test about something that had seemed off to me. After being hit with AB, I fought until they wore out.

While active my end was, as to be expected, inexhaustible. However, as soon as AB ran out, my end slammed down to zero in only six attacks.

Six attacks, plus my shields, used up 110 endurance from a character with three-slotted stamina. Not only did they seem to cost the normal, un-enhanced amount, they seemed to cost extra. After about thirty seconds, my end regen returned to normal and the costs went back down.

I have no idea what is causing this bug… and I know this probably isn’t very helpful, but it’s damned irritating. Just thought I should share. :D

[rsinn]

I played my SS/INV for the first time since the last patch and...

I have it now too.

SB would (sometimes) initially give me 100% endurance, but endurance usage goes down more quickly than it would non-SB'd.

To top it off, it doesnt speed up my attack recharge.

Imagine being in the LRSF and having to use Jab and Punch because thats all you have endurance for. WHILE SPEED BOOSTED. And to speed up your attacks you have to pop Hasten. It was so bad OTHER people were asking me what was going on with me.

Something kooky is going on.

[spoony]

I have a stone/stone brute. having SB (3 end mod) and my stamina (3 end mod), my endurance drops really fast. we have noticed this recently. I think Stone melee is having issue because the moment i stop my endurance comes back really quick.

BTW I have noticed this change around LvL40-41 and my toon is at lvl44

[UberGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a stone/stone brute. having SB (3 end mod) and my stamina (3 end mod), my endurance drops really fast. we have noticed this recently. I think Stone melee is having issue because the moment i stop my endurance comes back really quick.

BTW I have noticed this change around LvL40-41 and my toon is at lvl44

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I have always been able to drain my endurance using Stone melee under Speed Boost. When you get to chain those big, expensive attacks that much faster (SB is +50% attack rate) I'm not sure we can say that's indicative of the bug. Now, the speed at which you drain it can be indicative, because it used to take me a little while.

I duoed the Ghost of Scrapyard with the help of a /Kin Corruptor about 3 days before the buffed GM regen rates, so I remember the battle to stay in endurance distinctly. ;)

[Blastwall]

I have also noticed with my tank that my Knockout blow and my Foot stomp are using an incredibly large amount of end, just thought it was my imagination though. After reading this I am fairly certain that Knockout blow, and Foot stomp are the only two causing the problem. Also, a question,,probably easily answered, "When did hasten begin causing an END drop, when its effect ended?"

[DaemonDivinity]

Hasten's worked that way at least since I-1, maybe longer.

[Clorius]

I have noticed Endurance issues on my Katana/Regen with both QR & Stamina 3 slotted with End Mod SO's. Normal mob spawns of non End draining enemies will see me [at times] down to half of my endurance bar [it regens quickly at least] which is pretty odd. The only toggles I run are Integration & Sprint. Could Auto-powers be draining endurance? Even though they are not supposed to?

The odd thing is that it is a random thing; one day I will be fine, the next I will be running out of endurance [literally in some cases]. I was in a Crey door mission after upgrading my SO's to level 40 - character is 38 - and in a spawn of 4 +1 enemies I was down to a sliver of endurance left. It seems tied with upgrading SO's at times, but other times completely random.

I will try to figure out a way to get hard numbers, but, with it being so random, I don't know how effective it will be.

[UberGuy]

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Hasten's worked that way at least since I-1, maybe longer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hasten has always had an endurance drop on the version that went live post-Beta.

[Liquidisim]

[ QUOTE ]
I have noticed Endurance issues on my Katana/Regen with both QR & Stamina 3 slotted with End Mod SO's. Normal mob spawns of non End draining enemies will see me [at times] down to half of my endurance bar [it regens quickly at least] which is pretty odd. The only toggles I run are Integration & Sprint.

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Seeing the exact same thing on my MA/Regen Dinged 42 and put in all new so's and problem got worse.

[c4maniac]

While doing some testing on my lvl 42 NRG/Stone brute doing an unsloted end redux total focus before this stealth nerf was doing about 18 redux on the bar after and I think it was a temp power doing this the life insurance in a mayhem mission was causing it. After getting that temp my bar went from 3/4 to about 1/3 end so 75-35 is about 40 which is double the amount. After the temp power went away my end cost reduced to proper values. Just food for thought a temp always on for a time period that reduces end more its kinda puzzling to say the least good luck castle replicating it. Sounds like a bug someone is going to fix by accident.

I also did a number crunch on whirling hands as I could just sit anywhere and do it and found the same result while I had the temp power.

[SuperFab]

This is now happening on my electric/electric Brute. I was level 16 and doing so well on endurance that I was joking with my wife that I could push Stamina back because this guy was using next to no endurance at all. My missions were on Malicious and I was breezing through them. Then I put him away for a week or so to work on some other characters.

I came back to him a few days ago and soloed the Skyway mayhem. On Malicious, ended up with 28 minutes at one point. Did a couple side-missions, and basically breezed through the whole thing without issue. Got my debt protection self-rez and moved on to other missions.

Then I started noticing that my endurance was dropping very quickly. I was spending most of my time resting, fighting maybe one group then resting again. I ended up putting my missions back to Villainous because my blue bar couldn't handle Malicious any more.

I thought maybe because my DO end reducers (in all my attacks and toggles) were yellow that might have been the problem. So when I hit 17 I bought 20s to go in there. Didn't affect the problem one bit it seems.

I was even in a group with other brutes later that night and noticed that you could tell which were brutes easily enough because if you looked at the party status bar the brutes were the ones with no blue bars. There were four brutes in this group and we took turns between resting. The process was basically fight a group with endurance, fight a group with no toggles running and only the low-endurance attacks, then rest. Rinse and repeat. We each did this, so basically out of four brutes I would say we had one-and-a-half active each group of mobs. That's horrible.