Stealth: we have been mislead

[Shadow_Stone]

According to the recent Prima guide ALL of the mighty 2.5 defense is suppressed when your attacked, you click a glowie, oir someone attacks you.

Could someone please tell me if it is suppressed how does the def bonus even function and why does the power even have it? Of course, the guide contradicts itself as it says only a portion of the def is supressed. But then goes on to say all of it is suppressed.

I am a little confused how this is supposed to work. You lose the defense if your attacked how is it providing defense?

Here is the quote from the guide.

[ QUOTE ]
POWER HELP TEXT: You blend into your environment and can only be seen at very close range. Even if discovered, you are hard to see and have a bonus to Defense
to all attacks. If, however, you attack while using this power, you will be discovered and will lose your Stealth and some of your Defense bonus. While stealthy, your movement is slowed. Stealth will not work with any other form of
concealment power such as Shadow Fall or Steamy Mist. It has a very low Endurance cost. EFFECTS: 35' Stealth radius to critters (this will suppress for 10 seconds if you interact with a clickable object or initiate an attack or are
attacked); 389' Stealth radius to players (this will suppress for 10 seconds if you interact with a clickable object or initiate an attack or are attacked); 2.5% Defense; 2.5% Defense (this will suppress for 10 seconds if you interact with a
clickable object or initiate an attack or are attacked); 35% decrease to movement speed.

[/ QUOTE ]

So as I read this you get a small stealth component, a def component as long as you doing nothing but traveling, but if you are attacked, you lose the def, maintain the movement penalty, end drain continues...

Why would anyone choose this power over invisibility? At least with invisibility if your attacked you keep the defense. You have to turn off invisibility (losing stealth and defense to attack) and in stealth if you attack you lose the stealth. and the def, have a movement penalty and end drain correct?

This sounds like the problem they solved in beta because there was no reason to choose invisbility over stealth, and now there is no good reason to choose stealth over invisibility other than now you have to waste a power pool power to get to invisibility.

This just sucks plain and simple. Why were we mislead on how this power works? I am sure this was nerfed and made a largely worthless power for one reason and one reason only. It stacks with stalker hide and that would be too powerful, so everyone else who used this power for defense is screwed....

Of course someone can also explain why hover's defense doesn't suppress when attacked or attacking???? Are they doing the same thing essentialy? Travel power + defense? Talk about being hypocritical and inconsistent...

I don't know why, but this just ticks me off.....

[Bradd]

Note that the entry lists 2.5% defense plus 2.5% suppressable defense. Also, I would guess that the suppression works the same way as the stalker "Hidden" state: Attacks suppress your stealth, but only after the attack hits. This is useful against creatures that can attack you even while you're hidden; it helps to evade the first shot. That way, you get 2.5% defense all the time and 5% defense against unexpected alpha strikes.

[Shadow_Stone]

Does not say "plus" There is a semicolon there bud

[Mirai]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would anyone choose this power over invisibility?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it's available earlier and it's a prerequisite for Invisibility.

You can also attack with Stealth on, which can be handy if you're trying to sneak up on enemies. You have to turn off Invisibility to attack, and wait for the recharge before becoming Invisible again, while the suppression on Stealth only lasts 10 (?) seconds.

I'll often use Stealth missions with my blasters even after I pick up Invisibility.

I really could care less about the tiny defense bonus from Stealth. It's not enough to help. The concealment is useful, even if it suppresses in fights... or when clicking glowies now.

[Bradd]

The semicolon means that they are two separate effects. They stack.

[Shadow_Stone]

[ QUOTE ]
The semicolon means that they are two separate effects. They stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not read it that way. It think it says you have 2.5% def; and 2.5% def suppresses if you are attacked, just like in the previous part wher it talks about the stealth suppressing. It is not saying that your stealth radius is double then is reduced, it all goes away.

[RagManX]

[ QUOTE ]
EFFECTS: 35' Stealth radius to critters (this will suppress for 10 seconds if you interact with a clickable object or initiate an attack or are attacked); 389' Stealth radius to players (this will suppress for 10 seconds if you interact with a clickable object or initiate an attack or are attacked); 2.5% Defense; 2.5% Defense (this will suppress for 10 seconds if you interact with a
clickable object or initiate an attack or are attacked); 35% decrease to movement speed.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, those are all the effects listed consecutively. The power has a 35' stealth radius to critters. The power has a 389' stealth radius to players. The power has a 2.5% defense effect. The power has a 2.5% defense effect that suppresses for 10 seconds if you interact with a clickie, initiate an attack, or are attacked. The power has a 35% decrease to movement.

The semicolons seperate distinct effects. That means there is a 2.5% defense always while the power is on, and a 2.5% defense that is on except in the specific instances which are listed as causing suppression. Rewriting them as I have above is the same, but more verbose. The guide has written it in shorter form to reduce the amount of space necessary to detail the power. It's not written well (meaning clearly), but this has been explained somewhere, somehow by a dev after suppression came out for stealth.

RagManX

[Shadow_Stone]

I stand corrected

[ShaiHulud_NA]

RagMan's correct on the syntax, the 2.5% and 2.5% (suppressable) are 2 different atribbutes of the power, and matches the discription in-game (loose half the +def bonus when you attack), but I think the #s may be a bit high since AT modifiers take effect.

BTW: I know it's off topic, but AT modifiers for pool powers seem retarded to me. It's the same power, but it's weaker for the ATs that actualy need to take it for their only deffence.

[PorkchopXpress]

What people forget and the guide can't explain is that the defense it gives isn't remotely comparable to the -aggro you get from the power. That is worth 10x the paltry defense number.

Minimizing Aggro is the forgotten defense. :cool:

[EvilDeathBee]

[ QUOTE ]
What people forget and the guide can't explain is that the defense it gives isn't remotely comparable to the -aggro you get from the power. That is worth 10x the paltry defense number.

Minimizing Aggro is the forgotten defense

[/ QUOTE ]

Quoted for truth.

Stealth + Snipe = High probability of pulling single minions off of a pack.

[PorkchopXpress]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What people forget and the guide can't explain is that the defense it gives isn't remotely comparable to the -aggro you get from the power. That is worth 10x the paltry defense number.

Minimizing Aggro is the forgotten defense

[/ QUOTE ]

Quoted for truth.

Stealth + Snipe = High probability of pulling single minions off of a pack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spread the gospel brother Bee!

[_Uun_]

Here is Statesman's original explanation of stealth and supression from August 2005:

[ QUOTE ]
Basic stealth Powers (Pools, temp powers, and Powers not in a Defense set like Blaster Cloaking Device, Controller Illusion Invisibilities):

Toggles:
If you Attack, or are Hit - Critters see you. You loose half your defense buff (and your PvP stealth) for 10 seconds. Your translucency is reduced to indicate this change.

Clicks
If you Attack, or are Hit - All enemies will see you. You loose half your defense buff. Your translucency is reduced to indicate this change.

Primary stealth Powers (Those in a defense set like Dark Armor/Cloak of Darkness, Dark Miasma/Shadow Fall, Storm Summoning/Steamy Mist, Warshade/Shadow Cloak)

Toggles:
If you Attack, or are Hit - Critters see you. (You loose your PvP stealth for 10 seconds). Your translucency is reduced to indicate this change. No Defense is Suppressed

[/ QUOTE ]

What was changed in I7:

[ QUOTE ]
Stealth and Phase Shift Powers will suppress (for self buffs or toggles) or cancel (for external buffs) when a player interacts with Interactive Objects, such as Plaques or Mission Objective Objects. Suppression of this type has a duration of 10 seconds.

[/ QUOTE ]

As near as I can tell, there was no change to the defense supression - except for primary stealth powers, 1/2 the defense supresses if you attack or are hit. I believe this applies to invisibility as well.

[Castle]

[ QUOTE ]
The semicolon means that they are two separate effects. They stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct.

[Ridolfo]

If you're solo it isn't as useful, but if you are squishy and NOT attacking, i.e. buffing teammates, healing teammates, removing status affects from teammates, you get defense from the mobs and you are harder to detect. You give that up when you attack. That's why, for example, I don't take stealth on my blasters, scrappers and tankers.

So if you want the defense, small though it is, use Combat Jumping.

[Tonaka]

ALL my blasters have Stealth. It is so very usefull in getting into position for my opening salvo. I can close to my lowest ranged ranged attack, and fire away. I would be seen, attacked, and therefore interupted in my Snipe, rendering it unusable in that fight in stead of my opening move.

Getting that PERFECT position to use my cone weapons, and short range heaveys AFTER my snipe is worth the power.

[Synthetic CK]

[ QUOTE ]
Correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Toldage.

[Iodine]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Toldage.

[/ QUOTE ]
Lameage. We all know why this idiotic change reared it's ugly head. I wasn't misled at all. I knew as soon as Statesman starting talking about it that the pool's utility would be lowered to just above craptastic.

It seems to me stealthing a mission for glowies is no different than getting mission xp from contacts that tell you talk to other contacts or to patrol areas in a city (clicking on phone booths, etc). These types of missions are usually minimum risk to the player too. I guess they're gonna nerf those missions as well?

If they’re so hot to suppress stealth during combat, I'm thinking it's a fair trade to remove the movement penalty while being suppressed. Hey you know … balance and all.

No, I stopped holding my breath a while ago.

[Futurias]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The semicolon means that they are two separate effects. They stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Castle, is anything going to be done to rebalance NPC stealth versus PCs? Right now NPC stealth is far mor powerful as it will totally make you lose targeting on NPCs, yet the NPCs will never lose target on you unless you run away.

It is incredibly agravating that they can continue to follow and fight (waxing my Stalker that I've been tooling with) and yet when I'm hit with smoke grenade or they activate stealth I no longer have a target.

[Rathulfr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Toldage.

[/ QUOTE ]
Lameage. We all know why this idiotic change reared it's ugly head. I wasn't misled at all. I knew as soon as Statesman starting talking about it that the pool's utility would be lowered to just above craptastic.

It seems to me stealthing a mission for glowies is no different than getting mission xp from contacts that tell you talk to other contacts or to patrol areas in a city (clicking on phone booths, etc). These types of missions are usually minimum risk to the player too. I guess they're gonna nerf those missions as well?

If they’re so hot to suppress stealth during combat, I'm thinking it's a fair trade to remove the movement penalty while being suppressed. Hey you know … balance and all.

No, I stopped holding my breath a while ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry about the pyramid, but QFT and amen, brutha! Why is it okay in the Sacred Church of Risk vs. Reward to gain XP by flying through relatively safe zones to click on Contacts or Phone Booths, but not stealthing through an instance full of potential hostiles to click on glowies? Where does that make any sense?

There are other ways to make click-glowie missions more risky for stealthed players, without nerfing Stealth powers. You could add more mobs or ambushes that can see through stealth, like the Rikti Drones. Or you could add ambush triggers to the glowies. But the simplest is probably to add a "defeat boss" or "clear room" component to the click-only missions, as has already been done in most CoV missions. In other words, eliminate the "click-only" aspect, and make them "click-plus-defeat" missions.

But ultimately, stealthing through a glowie-only mission should be considered an alternative, but still valid, method to complete some missions. Why do heroes and villains have to fight their way through everything? Answer: they don't -- and shouldn't. If anything, CoH/V could stand to have more missions that require more creative problem-solving, besides simply "defeat all". But that's a topic for a different thread.

[Jade_Dragon]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is it okay in the Sacred Church of Risk vs. Reward to gain XP by flying through relatively safe zones to click on Contacts or Phone Booths, but not stealthing through an instance full of potential hostiles to click on glowies? Where does that make any sense?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you do not get XP for clicking on Contacts. (Well, you do for Phone Booths, but there isn't anyone who can't avoid combat doing those) You get XP for doing the mission the Contact sends you to do. So there is STILL a risk involved.

The main thing is, though, this has NOTHING to do with the topic. This thread is about whether or not stealth suppression leaves you with some of the stealth functionality, or none of it. The OP misinterpreted the way the Prima Guide was read, and _Castle_ clarified that; when stealth is suppressed, you lose 1/2 of the defense, not all of it. So you are still getting some benefit for the End cost, albeit small.

[nemesis316]

[ QUOTE ]
But ultimately, stealthing through a glowie-only mission should be considered an alternative, but still valid, method to complete some missions. Why do heroes and villains have to fight their way through everything? Answer: they don't -- and shouldn't. If anything, CoH/V could stand to have more missions that require more creative problem-solving, besides simply "defeat all". But that's a topic for a different thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite correct. Some heroes are made to go in a bash baddies (Tankers & Scrappers), Some Control them to get what they need. Why is Stealthing not a respected alternative. Batman didn't always fight the bad guys. Sometimes he just broke in and got what he needed and left and saved bashing them for a more opportune time...after all we don't all come with fabulous defenses. Of course this could take me off on a rant about the AT system and why it prevents you from imitating certian types of comic book icons...but we won't go there.

Carbide Titan (tanker)

[nemesis316]

Actually, one more quick note. Why should everyone be able to get Stealth anyway? Seems more like an AT or AT Power Set to me. Kinda like Stalkers on COV. After all. How may Stealthy Blasters do you see in the comics? Or Stealthy Tanks for that matter? Some things make more sense if taken in a different context.

Carbide Titan

[Squirrel_Mark1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But ultimately, stealthing through a glowie-only mission should be considered an alternative, but still valid, method to complete some missions. Why do heroes and villains have to fight their way through everything? Answer: they don't -- and shouldn't. If anything, CoH/V could stand to have more missions that require more creative problem-solving, besides simply "defeat all". But that's a topic for a different thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite correct. Some heroes are made to go in a bash baddies (Tankers & Scrappers), Some Control them to get what they need. Why is Stealthing not a respected alternative. Batman didn't always fight the bad guys. Sometimes he just broke in and got what he needed and left and saved bashing them for a more opportune time...after all we don't all come with fabulous defenses. Of course this could take me off on a rant about the AT system and why it prevents you from imitating certian types of comic book icons...but we won't go there.

Carbide Titan (tanker)

[/ QUOTE ]

But as said above: Regardless of the validity of stealthing glowies: It has nothing to do with this topic. This topic is about if you do or do not maintain 2.5% defense after attacking. Topic over... _Castle_ has confirmed you do.

This other topic has its own threads.

[Shadow_Stone]

I stated earlier that I stand corrected. Thank you Castle for making it official, the text is a bit misleading, I would have said Stealth provides 5% defense that decreases to 2.5% when suppressed.

The "new" Stealth is now a poor choice for a melee toon like my scrapper, Shadow King. It used to be a good choice for more than one reason, now not so much. Now the only reason to keep it is role-play reasons. Ranged attackers and healing defenders can clearly get more milage out of it. ( Heavy sigh), I just remember in beta the discussions and the reasons why stealth was made different than invisbility. and those very good reasons seem to have been thrown out the window.

And it all the fault of the Stalker class, isn't it?

[Torakage]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, one more quick note. Why should everyone be able to get Stealth anyway? Seems more like an AT or AT Power Set to me. Kinda like Stalkers on COV. After all. How may Stealthy Blasters do you see in the comics? Or Stealthy Tanks for that matter? Some things make more sense if taken in a different context.

Carbide Titan

[/ QUOTE ]

Stealthy Blaster = military-style spec-ops sniper.

Stealthy Tanker = ??? I dunno on this one. Possibly Iron Man in his Stealth armor, but Iron Man is totally a tank-mage.

[Schismatrix]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The semicolon means that they are two separate effects. They stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Castle, is anything going to be done to rebalance NPC stealth versus PCs? Right now NPC stealth is far mor powerful as it will totally make you lose targeting on NPCs, yet the NPCs will never lose target on you unless you run away.

It is incredibly agravating that they can continue to follow and fight (waxing my Stalker that I've been tooling with) and yet when I'm hit with smoke grenade or they activate stealth I no longer have a target.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's been repeatedly confirmed by the Devs in the past that this is because NPC aggro rules are completely different. Once aggroed a mob doesn't check perception until you leave their (rather large) aggro range or something removes/lowers your position on their aggro list. Until either condition is met they know where you are at all times. It's a limitation of mob AI/perception coding that unfortunately cannot be changed at this point in time.

[Oddballica]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, one more quick note. Why should everyone be able to get Stealth anyway? Seems more like an AT or AT Power Set to me. Kinda like Stalkers on COV. After all. How may Stealthy Blasters do you see in the comics? Or Stealthy Tanks for that matter? Some things make more sense if taken in a different context.

Carbide Titan

[/ QUOTE ]
Ultimate Nick Fury, using a rifle, The Ultimates :)

[PsychicKitty]

Yep cheesy isnt it.

And you think thats bad...no more commanding pets while invisible either.(not mentioned in patch notes)

My only defense my ninja/poison master mind had is now gone...so that means no more pvp for me.....especially since they also lowered the amount of concealment the power gives as well.

Kind of noticable when i get teleported over and over and killed instantly in pvp zones...especially when i enter into a zone.
And i have never been stupid enough to stand with my guys just so i can auto killed or worse use the worthless body guard ability and let all my guys die from a lame fire ball.
(although it doesnt stop me from abusing others who are dumb enough to do so)

And its kind of noticable the concealment from it isnt working....when just about everyhting in Grandville shoots at me while i am invisible.

I kind of wish it worked sort of like the hide power and would maybe let me do things and then turn back on.....but i guess thats not in the cards for the power....and i kind of would like it to do as the name for it states and as the description states.

Anywise.....I plan to respec out of the concealment pool now...the Phase Shift is worthless as is the Invisibility so no point to have them.

I kind of can still use invisibility for a few missions...but most of the missions are now a Where's Waldo mission....that basically just waste your time....and there is no need for invisibility when you have to defeat everything and end up wasting 2 hours hunting for some lone npc who is hidden somewhere every time.
(You can probably see that i hate those mission types....they are worthless as you can get more exp outside the missions then inside so they are pointless time wastes in my opinion.)

Anywise....I am just shocked no one realized the defense for the power was that lame...I knew it was and posted it was over and over and over....

And now that it basicaly wont let you command pets with it....its even more worthless...as there are not many uses for it...except maybe if you are a masochist.

The developers at least fixed the Superior Invisibility kind of....

I guess the Concealment pool is kind of another red headed step child.

The invisibility in it...has gone onto the list with Jump kick and Phase Shift and team teleport......the list of powers that work but for practicle purposes they are basically for show.

[Oddballica]

[ QUOTE ]

The invisibility in it...has gone onto the list with Jump kick and Phase Shift and team teleport......the list of powers that work but for practicle purposes they are basically for show.

[/ QUOTE ]
Being able to work through the majority of missions and kill a few people (And sometimes, you can click a glowie without people noticing you) is "basically for show"? Or the fact that the majority of people cannot see you?

[Verdeman]

[ QUOTE ]
Being able to work through the majority of missions and kill a few people (And sometimes, you can click a glowie without people noticing you) is "basically for show"? Or the fact that the majority of people cannot see you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't had any problems stealthing missions with Stealth/SS since I7. Sure I have to occaisionally fight things near a glowie but I can still do the missions quickly.

I think the change keeps people from stealthing missions at a difficulty that they wouldn't normally be able to solo and to discourage stealthing on full teams.

[RagManX]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The semicolon means that they are two separate effects. They stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct.

[/ QUOTE ]
Man, I was soooo close to getting red-named. :)

RagManX

[Lemming_NA]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why is it okay in the Sacred Church of Risk vs. Reward to gain XP by flying through relatively safe zones to click on Contacts or Phone Booths, but not stealthing through an instance full of potential hostiles to click on glowies? Where does that make any sense?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you do not get XP for clicking on Contacts. (Well, you do for Phone Booths, but there isn't anyone who can't avoid combat doing those) You get XP for doing the mission the Contact sends you to do. So there is STILL a risk involved.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think what he meant, was sometimes you're sent by your contact to go talk to someone (often one of your other contacts). Indigo to Crimson, etc...
You almost always get XP for this at about 1/2 of what a mission would be.

[TheMightyStorm]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The semicolon means that they are two separate effects. They stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct.

[/ QUOTE ]
Man, I was soooo close to getting red-named. :)

RagManX

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not a very exciting red name though. All it means is that Prima's poor writing has caused confusion, and Castle has to clear it up.

At first I thought shadow was a little off, but only because I know that there's a 2-part def bonus. If you actually read the punctuation as is, it reads as (here is a def bonus); (concerning that def bonus). Semicolons are only used to separate comma delimited items when you're already using commas among the items (red,white, and blue; green, yellow, and turqoise). Usually when you use a semicolon it's to tack on something closely related to your current statement. If they wanted to be clearer then they should have said (suppressed)/(unsuppressed) 2.5/5.0.

This is another reason I hate suppression. It needlessly complicates a game that was very straightforward.

also, people don't seem to know how to write clearly anymore...darn kids... society ---> hell etc etc. uphill both ways in the snow naked.

[Knowmad]

[ QUOTE ]
in the snow naked.

[/ QUOTE ]
Happy Thought!

We've all missed the SCOURGE lately. Good to see it's back.

[srmalloy]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me stealthing a mission for glowies is no different than getting mission xp from contacts that tell you talk to other contacts or to patrol areas in a city (clicking on phone booths, etc). These types of missions are usually minimum risk to the player too. I guess they're gonna nerf those missions as well?

[/ QUOTE ]
They already are nerfed compared to the regular missions. On all of the 'Go talk to the (PvP Zone) Liaison' missions and similar non-combative missions, the XP that my character has gotten has been significantly less than what their normal mission bonus is.

Part of the problem with Statesman's "Risk vs. Reward" reasoning behind implementing concealment suppression is the fact that, as characters go up in level, the amount of XP they get from the mission bonus rises faster than the XP they get from defeating mobs. For example, my level 6 Brute was getting a mission bonus about equal to the XP from four white minions. My level 40 Mastermind is getting a mission bonus equal to more than twenty white minions. The higher level your character is, the more incentive there is to pick missions where all you have to do to complete the mission is to race stealthily to the end and defeat the spawn there, investing the minimum amount of time necessary to get the mission bonus, then dash to the next one. As long as a character can make more XP by rushing to the next 'Defeat BOSS_NAME and his guards' or 'Steal OBJECT from the VILLAIN_GROUP' mission than by staying in the mission to defeat more than the one spawn at the end, then you're going to continue to see people using concealment powers to avoid having to fight their way to the back of the mission.

Rather than supressing concealment powers, I think a more elegant solution would be to have a random chance that one or two mobs within each spawn are given a Perception bonus, offsetting the aggro radius decrease from concealment powers, making it harder for characters to sleaze their way to the end of a mission without aggroing several spawns. Another option might be an exit bonus for a mission if it is cleared. Another might be to lock all of the mission-objective glowies, so that you have the choice between attacking the container holding the objective to break it open, or to go through the mission defeating mobs to find the one that has the key to the container which will let you open it without breaking it open and alerting everyone in the room. Or change the way 'Steal X' missions work and require that the person who took the object exit from the entrance door of the mission -- but the group you took it from has a tracer on the item, with an ambush heading for the tracer, rather than the 'run to where the character was when the ambush triggered, then stand around' effect I see in missions now.

[thecatnamedSue]

the problem is, people get tired of doing....Defeat X and everyone in the same room as X. Defeat X everyone in the same room as x and find the glowie that happens to be in the same room as X.....and the last variation..... Defeat X everyone in the same room as X and find multiple glowies.....


I dont remember City of HEros being this Tedious..... but then i remember when hazard zones used to be worthwhile....do some hunting there....do a few missions.....now teams only want to do missions since the Xp debt is halved......and everyone counts on dying at heroic because of GDN and Enhancment depreciation....

what was the question again? Oh right, why people insist on Risk vs Reward when Time vs reward is the only truth. It takes time to get to the mission....it takes time to run through the mission to get the glowie..... just like it takes TIME to defeat 3 minions. The risk of 3 minions is small, The reward small....the time for a stealthed mission is small, the reward small......The Devs designed an At that relies on being invisible to do thier job. So now the devs think "Oh, they are avoiding Time/risk because of thier Hide"

Mencia called, Devs....he said "dee dee dee"

[Quickshadow]

[ QUOTE ]
and everyone counts on dying at heroic because of GDN and Enhancment depreciation

[/ QUOTE ]

QFR (Quoted for Ridiculousness)

Dying on heroic?! Really? Does ANYONE with a few weeks of experience at this game die on HEROIC?! Please, cut the hyperbole. All my mainly played characters right now (defender, PB and Tank) play on unyielding. And yes, they die occasionally, but significantly less than once/mission. And I am NOT a tremendously skilled player (been here since pre-issue 1 and have one 50).

And stealthing missions is perfectly fine. Yes, you get a bunch of xp, but significantly less than if you'd fought through the mission. The change means you'll usually have to spend an extra few minutes in a mission that you otherwise would have stealthed. That's about it. If you can't handle the few mobs near the glowies, then you have build problems, skill problems or have your reputation set too high.

[lacoon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The semicolon means that they are two separate effects. They stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not read it that way. It think it says you have 2.5% def; and 2.5% def suppresses if you are attacked, just like in the previous part wher it talks about the stealth suppressing. It is not saying that your stealth radius is double then is reduced, it all goes away.

[/ QUOTE ]

easy mistake to make. if this is explained elsewhere, please disregard.

You use semi colons in place of commas where a clause in the list would contain a comma:

Apple, New York; Pear, Indiana; Green Pants, France are all places I just made up.

[thecatnamedSue]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and everyone counts on dying at heroic because of GDN and Enhancment depreciation

[/ QUOTE ]

QFR (Quoted for Ridiculousness)

Dying on heroic?! Really? Does ANYONE with a few weeks of experience at this game die on HEROIC?! Please, cut the hyperbole. All my mainly played characters right now (defender, PB and Tank) play on unyielding. And yes, they die occasionally, but significantly less than once/mission. And I am NOT a tremendously skilled player (been here since pre-issue 1 and have one 50).

And stealthing missions is perfectly fine. Yes, you get a bunch of xp, but significantly less than if you'd fought through the mission. The change means you'll usually have to spend an extra few minutes in a mission that you otherwise would have stealthed. That's about it. If you can't handle the few mobs near the glowies, then you have build problems, skill problems or have your reputation set too high.

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Yes it happens, had it happen in the mayhem mission last niteon VILLIANOUS. I personally didnt die, but my team was dying left and right. I knew the mission would be rough with for me( lvl 12 mm)...I can solo my missions at Vicious but you add extra people in and dynamics change.

Quote that for Truth.....the only one thats Ridiculous is yourself, the only hyperbole is yours and Your limited experiences doesnt equal everyone elses

[Quickshadow]

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Quote that for Truth.....the only one thats Ridiculous is yourself, the only hyperbole is yours and Your limited experiences doesnt equal everyone elses

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Well, just for accuracy, could you point out my hyperbole? And secondly, could you explain how 'limited' my experiences are? Seriously.. how do you have any idea how 'limited' my experiences are? I've played with top of the game types and newbs, and I've seen few players who hang around long enough to learn how their powers have difficulty with heroic. Other than the respec missions, I've never seen any remotely experienced player afraid to go into a mission because it's not set on 'heroic' (or villainous). Since you seem to be a fairly new player and your described experiences are COV related, you might want to be careful how you throw around terms like "limited experiences".

And no, of course my experiences are not the same as everyone else's. Of course, your's are also not the same as anyone else's. So when you make statements like:

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And everyone counts on dying at heroic because of GDN and enhancement depreciation

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you are purporting to know what "everyone's" experiences are. Since you are a) Wrong and b) Obviously incapable of speaking for "everyone" you are clearly exaggerating to make your point, and thus engaging in hyperbole.

Thank you and drive through.

[Major_Madcap]

What they dont tell you, and really annoys me, is that if you are on a team and YOU are stealthed and dont do anything to break *your* stealth, but someone else in the team does, then the enemies get to see YOU.

For example, I am stealthed and approach a group of enemies. I dont attack and do not get near enough for them to notice me. Then, a team member shoots an enemy. Now the group of enemies can see and attack MY character, despite me not doing anything to break my stealth. :p That's always irritated me.