Chimera's Accuracy

[Tormentoso]

So I've been working on soloing EBs (even cons) and I come across Chimera.

I pop 3 purples (+25% defense) and he owns me. He does not miss a shot.

I proceed to pop 4 purples, same thing.

At first I thought it was a bad streak, so I go again a few times with 4 purps and pay attention to him. He attacks and he hits me, no missing.

I keep increasing the number of purples I munch till I reach 12 purples (12*25% = 300% defense cap iirc). And he still kills me without missing a shot.

Is this working as intended? Or did I hit the worst streak in history.

If its working as intended, and I wish to solo him, whats the best I can do? Pop oranges instead?

[Mr. DJ]

if I understand, from what I've been told, after a few purps, you've hit the defense cap.

Chimera just has really high accuracy cause of that inherent weapon draw stuff. The same for Infernal and Dominatrix, notice how they hit a lot more often than the others?

[GenericVillain]

The inherient weapon shouldn't matter... it's like 5-10% higher accuracy. In order to beat out a floored defense from purples, it'd need something like 2000% inherient accuracy.

I have floored out infernal, but in the cov side, so I don't know if that's different. But I was able to pop 3 purples and easily not get hit.

But then again, Luminary as a Hero I was completely unable to floor with purples or even affect.

[Mr. DJ]

well, the draw weapon inherents don't have the same magnitude as ours, I would expect it to be higher, which still leads me to my other statement, ever notice how Chimera, Infernal and Dominatrix hit more often than the other Praeotorian AV's?

[Soyuz]

The defence cap is 350%, IIRC.

Not all sets with a redraw or "pop" animation get an accuracy bonus, but those which do get a bonus of 5%. To bust through capped defence that would have to be on the order of a 375% bonus (plus the EB's 75% base, minus 350% defence = 100% to-hit).

Incidentally, MA (no redraw) has a 10% bonus. The idea that accuracy bonuses are strictly to do with redraw times is a bit of a myth IMO.

I've gone up against Infernal, Chimaera and Dominatrix with an SR scrapper. None of them hit anything close to 100% of the time and SR can't post anything close to 350% defence, even in Elude. This is therefore a bug - just a very, very nasty one.

Cheers,

~R~

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Does he use some autohit attacks, perhaps?

[Blueeyed]

[ QUOTE ]
To bust through capped defence that would have to be on the order of a 375% bonus (plus the EB's 75% base, minus 350% defence = 100% to-hit).

[/ QUOTE ]
All player inherent connection buffs are accuracy buffs : that is, they are multiplicative. To bypass a capped Defense (and assuming no tohit buffs), they must be on a factor of 1500% (to reach the normal 75% connection rate) or 2000%.
[ QUOTE ]
Incidentally, MA (no redraw) has a 10% bonus. The idea that accuracy bonuses are strictly to do with redraw times is a bit of a myth IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]
Correction. Martial Arts was reduced to +5% accuracy in the same patch that made it not suck completely.

As to the OP: don't know what to tell you. My scrapper took him down during a normal Moment of Glory cycle.

[Tormentoso]

[ QUOTE ]
Does he use some autohit attacks, perhaps?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, he owned me with good old arrows and the ocasional katana swipe. :(

[iakona_NA]

Chimera's arrows are 1.4 BaseAccuracy, and his katana is 1.2 (for comparison, player katanas are 1.05). Defense cap varies by AT: Squishies are 175%, Scrappers, Stalkers, and Kheldians are 200%, Tanks and Brutes are 225% (these are all at level 50).

[Soyuz]

So however you look at it, unless Tormentoso got the streak from hell (feasible, but highly unlikely) that many Luck inspirations means that Chimaera should have been missing him on almost every hit. Definitely something up there.

Cheers,

~R~

[Tormentoso]

Made some more testing.
Popping 8 purples bought at a contact.

If I got close enough for him to pull his Katana I was ok, the katana missed as much as I expected it to.

However his Bow does not miss through 8 purples.

Trying to make a demo record but never done it so... :(

[Blueeyed]

Just type "/demorecord chimera" once you zone into the Chimera map. Rest should take care of itself - the recording will stop when you zone, but if you prefer, "/demorecord stop" works too.

Yeah, this does seem strange. If a number of Lucks are letting you dodge his Katana, you'll be hit more often by his Arrows, but not as much as you seem to be describing.

[Tormentoso]

Thanks for the info.
Managed to record 3 attempts. With 8,11,16 purples.
Was beaten in 3 shots by his arrows. Not missed once.

Now, I have no idea what to do with the demos, but at least I got them if needed.

EDIT: they're abit wonky in position, but the point goes across. Also, the power icon display is not there so you cant really see all the purpled, but the part when I activated them is.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Do purples work agains AOEs?

[Clan_Jericho]

[ QUOTE ]
Do purples work agains AOEs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

I suspect that Chimera's bow attacks are auto-hit. I don't know why they would be, but there you are.

~Gabriel

[Soyuz]

Could be another of those oh-so-fun decimal place errors. Perhaps someone entered his bow's 140% accuracy mod as "140" instead of "1.4".

Cheers,

~R~

[Paradox555]

I noticed the exact same thing when I fought Chimera (although I fought him before the EB oatch, so he was an archvillain). His bow would *ALWAYS* hit, right through my toggles stacked with perma-elude. The katana didn't give me much trouble. I suspect the bow is auto-hit, or it ignores defense at the very least.

[Teklord]

Very interesting. So the arrows are auto-hit or the decimal was misplaced for them. We should PM Castle.
-Teklord

[_Uun_]

Wasn't really paying attention to it at the time, but I was able to solo Chimera EB with my MA/Inv. I know I had unstoppable and invincibility running. Pretty sure I popped some purples too, but I don't remember if he missed or not.

I've done Dominatrix twice and don't recall her drawing a weapon. She may not have missed, but I found her to be quite easy - never even hit dull pain, let alone unstoppable.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Oh wait, I know why he doesn't miss. He think you're a teammate.

[TheArtifex]

Chimera's bow seems to be capped at 95% to-hit, regardless of what sort of defense you have or accuracy/to-hit debuffs he has. The best thing you can do is close to melee range and make him draw his sword, which functions normally.

[Teklord]

Apparently the bow has a .4 tohit buff on it plus the .5 tohit buff from being an AV. Plus any level based differences.

That makes the formula something like ((.5 + .4 + .5) - def ) * acc.

Stipulating that the acc is 1 in this case and assuming Tormentoso is using a storm defender, we get a capped defense of 1.75.

So (1.4 - 1.75) should result in floored final acc, i.e. 5% chance to hit.

The pure number of attempts seem to indicate he shouldn't have been hit that many times.
-Teklord

[Castle]

Chimera is really good with his bow. Sure, he can still miss, but it won't be often.

[Terminotaur]

Um... I have to agree with the other posters here. Chimera's accuracy appears to be auto-hit.

I attempted to solo the elite boss version of him a couple days ago with my FF/Rad defender. Even with Personal Force Field, Dispersion Bubble, and 4 purple inspirations going, he never once missed a shot with his bow. I stood there for several minutes just to be sure.

As it turned out, I had to call in help from a couple SG members to take him down. My build relies on defense, which seems to have no affect on Chimera.

[Gangrene]

The AV into EB that gave me the most headaches was Longbows Agent X. I was an EM/Nin stalker soloing him, and he had some insane Regen that was almost faster than I could Placate/Build Up/AS him. I was so happy when he finally activated MoG, and my next AS floored him.

[Vanden]

Agent X is always an EB.

[Righter]

I thought defense past 95% didn't matter except for things that do -defense?

[Coulomb2]

I fought the EB version of him with my level 50 blaster a few days ago. He was level 50. I started out by popping 3 purps. He never missed. Then 4. Not a miss. Then 8. Again, no misses. I'd actually hover on in, hit him with a powerful alpha strike, fight as long as my greens lasted (since the purples made zero difference) and run out of the map to buy more inspies and try again. After the failed attempt with 8 purples, it dawned on me that if I just bought and used 8 oranges, that'd give me a +40% resist bonus, stacked to the ~30% resist from the electric shield in my ancillary pool. Worked like a charm ... I basically had a minute where his shots could only do about 30% damage (and 120 point hits are far easier to take than 360 point hits), and that turned the tide. Frankly, I just figured the developers wanted to demonstrate to us that some EBs/AVs just respond better to oranges than purples, and so they gave Chimera (and several other EBs) a massive, massive accuracy boost to drive the point home.

[PeoplesFist]

[ QUOTE ]
Um... I have to agree with the other posters here. Chimera's accuracy appears to be auto-hit.

I attempted to solo the elite boss version of him a couple days ago with my FF/Rad defender. Even with Personal Force Field, Dispersion Bubble, and 4 purple inspirations going, he never once missed a shot with his bow. I stood there for several minutes just to be sure.

As it turned out, I had to call in help from a couple SG members to take him down. My build relies on defense, which seems to have no affect on Chimera.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? I soloed the even-level EB version with my MA/SR not too long ago. Granted, the fight only lasted about 90 seconds, but he *never* hit me. I don't recall exactly, but if there was anything on top of my toggles, it was just some inspirations -- not Elude.

I must've gotten really, really lucky or something ::shrugs::

[Arc_Salvo]

You probably got Lucky, People's Fist.

My Elude and Toggles and passives are all 3-slotted with defense SO's, and even with Elude up and -6- Extra Lucks, Elite Boss Chimera auto hit me every single time.

I ended up just popping 12 enrages to cap myself, and then ran in and beat the crap out of him as quickly as I could, and then healed myself with greens every time he popped me one.

Even then, it took 2 tries to kill him.

[Terminotaur]

[ QUOTE ]

Seriously? I soloed the even-level EB version with my MA/SR not too long ago. Granted, the fight only lasted about 90 seconds, but he *never* hit me. I don't recall exactly, but if there was anything on top of my toggles, it was just some inspirations -- not Elude.

I must've gotten really, really lucky or something ::shrugs::

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a difference. Melee vs. Range. Chimera uses his sword in melee and his arrows at range. The sword seems to have normal accuracy, but the arrows appear to be basically auto-hit. Since you are a melee AT, it makes sense that he would not have been able to hit you much.

For my defender, it is a little bit different. I usually fight at range because I don't have the hitpoints or resistance to survive in melee against an elite boss.

[UberGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Seriously? I soloed the even-level EB version with my MA/SR not too long ago. Granted, the fight only lasted about 90 seconds, but he *never* hit me. I don't recall exactly, but if there was anything on top of my toggles, it was just some inspirations -- not Elude.

I must've gotten really, really lucky or something ::shrugs::

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a difference. Melee vs. Range. Chimera uses his sword in melee and his arrows at range. The sword seems to have normal accuracy, but the arrows appear to be basically auto-hit. Since you are a melee AT, it makes sense that he would not have been able to hit you much.

For my defender, it is a little bit different. I usually fight at range because I don't have the hitpoints or resistance to survive in melee against an elite boss.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is funny. I soloed him succesfully only after I got him to switch to his bow. He was royally owning my BS/Inv in melee, and I ran and convinced him to start shooting me with his bow, even when I returned to melee range. He does way less damage with the bow, and I was able to outpace him.

[Tormentoso]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Um... I have to agree with the other posters here. Chimera's accuracy appears to be auto-hit.

I attempted to solo the elite boss version of him a couple days ago with my FF/Rad defender. Even with Personal Force Field, Dispersion Bubble, and 4 purple inspirations going, he never once missed a shot with his bow. I stood there for several minutes just to be sure.

As it turned out, I had to call in help from a couple SG members to take him down. My build relies on defense, which seems to have no affect on Chimera.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? I soloed the even-level EB version with my MA/SR not too long ago. Granted, the fight only lasted about 90 seconds, but he *never* hit me. I don't recall exactly, but if there was anything on top of my toggles, it was just some inspirations -- not Elude.

I must've gotten really, really lucky or something ::shrugs::

[/ QUOTE ]

He probably tried to take you down with his sword. Hit katana seems to work normally, its his bow that has 10000% accuracy.

[B_Samson]

Any chance Chimera is running a power similar to Focused Accuracy? (OK, so we can probably rule that out since the katana doesn't seem to be affected)? Maybe his bow attacks are heavily slotted for Accuracy?

Really, I'm just thinking out loud, but all the suggestions here seem to be assuming that base accuracy, AV bonus, and bonuses for weapon draw are the only things we're up against.

Maybe there's more to the equation.

[Shenalia]

[ QUOTE ]
You probably got Lucky, People's Fist.

My Elude and Toggles and passives are all 3-slotted with defense SO's, and even with Elude up and -6- Extra Lucks, Elite Boss Chimera auto hit me every single time.

I ended up just popping 12 enrages to cap myself, and then ran in and beat the crap out of him as quickly as I could, and then healed myself with greens every time he popped me one.

Even then, it took 2 tries to kill him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yie, Arc. My Blapper beat him twice 1v1 (both in the arc and in his personal mission) with a total of 8 purples (2 sets of 4) and some blues. I think he hit me twice with the sword in one fight and once with the bow in the other, and that was it. He was the easiest of the Praetorians for me. :eek:

Mother Mayhem was harder than he was, by great amounts. That auto-hit Dominate hurts, and you can't make her not use it in favor of something else.

[Optimator]

For the accuracy of Chimera's bow, think of Hami's Mitos. They can and do occasionally miss(in a couple of hours of taunting a yellow Mito for a magnitude test, I recorded 2 misses), but for all practical purposes, they are autohit.

It defies the instincts of squishies, but the only way to survive Chimera is in melee range.

[Protonic_Flux]

[ QUOTE ]
Chimera is really good with his bow. Sure, he can still miss, but it won't be often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to do any badmouthing here. But doesnt it seem like this response totally glosses over the complaint. Cant we at least get this looked at? And not on your servers either, on the live servers would be preferable. In the past there's been differences....

[_Ilr_]

[ QUOTE ]
Chimera is really good with his bow. Sure, he can still miss, but it won't be often.

[/ QUOTE ]

...Heh, or it could be another misplaced decimal point ;)


In any case... Hey DEF builds... do yourselves a favor and make friends with some Kinetic and Dark defenders. Enough Siphon powers or Darkest Nights stacked on any EB or AV can take their damage down to Liuetenant levels.

[Tal_N]

Its a complaint about something which is working as intended, castle isn't glossing over anything. Manticore is supposed to be a master archer so the ability to hit you almost reguardless of anything is fine especially since he's an AV and they all have unique attributes.

[Prime_Knight]

[ QUOTE ]
Chimera is really good with his bow. Sure, he can still miss, but it won't be often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chimera killed my SR scrapper buffed by a FF defender in under a minute at level 50....with elude up, overslotted toggles, and one slotted passives (-lucky). His accuracy is too good.

[Starsman]

[ QUOTE ]
Um... I have to agree with the other posters here. Chimera's accuracy appears to be auto-hi

[/ QUOTE ]

I soloed the EB version and he did hit but defenitively not auto. I muched 6 lucks and managed to defeat him with my invuln/ss tanker.

Once the I7 def changes roll in, he will be WAY less annoying for def based builds, right now having such a high acc and the substractive nature of defense, he will make defense almost useless unless you swallow a loooot of lucks.

[Teklord]

I poked _Castle_ again and he found that the bow is marked auto-hit at the moment. He is working internally to decide if this is a bug. He suspects it may be.

-Teklord

[Tormentoso]

I'd have no problem with his bow having extra Acc for thematic reasons, but the fact that it does not care about 12 purples is disturbing.

I have to admit I did not test how tough he was. Once I got owned three times in a row after popping 3-4 purples, I sort of got more interested in his accuracy than beating him. :D So I went purple popping and getting hit over and over again by his bow.

Whenever I feel like beating him I'll head into melee to smack him around some. His sword did miss few times.

<.<

>.>

(Do I get a badge? :o )

[Blueeyed]

[ QUOTE ]
I poked _Castle_ again and he found that the bow is marked auto-hit at the moment. He is working internally to decide if this is a bug. He suspects it may be.

-Teklord

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone let Mr. Fish get his hands on the server code?

[LiquidAir]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Seriously? I soloed the even-level EB version with my MA/SR not too long ago. Granted, the fight only lasted about 90 seconds, but he *never* hit me. I don't recall exactly, but if there was anything on top of my toggles, it was just some inspirations -- not Elude.

I must've gotten really, really lucky or something ::shrugs::

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a difference. Melee vs. Range. Chimera uses his sword in melee and his arrows at range. The sword seems to have normal accuracy, but the arrows appear to be basically auto-hit. Since you are a melee AT, it makes sense that he would not have been able to hit you much.

For my defender, it is a little bit different. I usually fight at range because I don't have the hitpoints or resistance to survive in melee against an elite boss.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is funny. I soloed him succesfully only after I got him to switch to his bow. He was royally owning my BS/Inv in melee, and I ran and convinced him to start shooting me with his bow, even when I returned to melee range. He does way less damage with the bow, and I was able to outpace him.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was the same experience I had with my Inv Tank against the AV version of him. We had 3 scrappers and a Tank on the team (not, maybe, the ideal AV team, but it is what we had). Initially I was in melee range and his sword was taking big hunks out of my hide (and this was pre I5 too...), so I stepped back, the scrappers formed a wall and I taunted him from behind it. Worked like a charm.

[LiquidAir]

Post deleted by LiquidAir

[THEpunishcrime]

it's chimera .... he's not supposed to miss.

CHIMERA!!!!!

man .. i'd crap my spandex in surprise if one f his arrows whizzed by, missing me, and didn't kill some unsuspecting hero behind me by bulls-eyeing between his eyes.

CHIMERA!!!! ... forget about it.

[LadyAndreca]

We tried an experiment on the AV Chimera with my BS/SR scrapper and a rad/rad defender...

With toggles, Elude, and a LOT of purples, we pushed Quest's defense to 187%. The defender then gave Chimera a -40% accuracy.

I think she died in 5 hits, even with the team healing her. He never missed.

Edit: *baps self* Oranges. I didn't think of oranges. We wound up calling in an inv tank because I was the only melee character on the team and we couldn't beat him.

[Khenti]

[ QUOTE ]
I poked _Castle_ again and he found that the bow is marked auto-hit at the moment. He is working internally to decide if this is a bug. He suspects it may be.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would explain a lot. Now I don’t feel nearly as bad when my Stormy gets up in his face with Hurricane and I watch him fling arrows into the Blaster’s face in the back.

----------------------
~Khenti, Pinnacle
Carl and Sons/The Establishment
Crey Cryostorm – Lvl 47 Ice/Storm Controller
Hound of Belial – Lvl 39 Fire/Kinetic Corruptor