Exemplar Aggro

[Positron]

As of 10/20 how is Exemplar Aggro?

[Righter]

On live or on test?

[Jomero]

On *LIVE*, Exemplar aggro is perfect as of last night!

Low level stuff do NOT run from me anymore. And as another side benefit, when my low level buddy is sidekicked to me, low level mobs treat HIM like a high level character now too, and ignore him. They used to annoyingly attack him (even though when sidekicked they couldn't do any damage to him).

Whatever you did Pos, you did it right! Sometimes it seems we aggro a little more than we should, but it could just be me being used to not having to worry about my health as much as a higher level tanker.

My only suggestion: Make it so that when you are in the mission as an exemplar, you cannot unexemplar. It's too tempting and too easy to /unex when the Schmidt hits the fan so you and your buddy(s) don't die.

[_Ilr_]

I agree, this is an odd place to ask that...

And whatever was causing the Whole-Level-Aggro musta been a real rarity because I never saw it happen.

Little early to say for sure, isn't it??

[PowerFist]

Did the Positron TF this morning on Live and the aggro was perfect.
However the exempler situation of getting dropped if your partner goes down is less then perfect..wasted 2 hours of my time cause his connection hiccuped.

[Zander_NA]

I'm happy that you fixed the Aggro issues but I don't like how I get the same amount of debt as I do when I'm not Exemplared when I am defeated. It's a horrible feeling when you get debt while you are trying to get rid of it. If you take away powers that we got at later levels then take away the higher levels of debt as well.

[Circeus_NA]

We just ran the Numina TF with two exemplars. One dropped midway so we couldn't beat Jurassik since he was the Tanker. With that said, I think agro was fine. Nothing was running away.

However... we did note a bug. None of us had done that TF before. Its a level 35-38 TF. By the time we got to the repeated Kill X mission we were down to one level 45 exemplar SK'd to a 36, and a level 38.

The bugs with the TF was the Ambushes:

1) They happen in the wrong zone -- not Exemplar related, but if I have to go kill 20 Sky Raiders in Terra Volta, why are they ambushing me in Crey's Folley, etc. Every single ambush was not in the zone where the TF was designated to be hunting. In general if your hunt is not in the zone you're currently in you don't normally get ambushed so this was skewed. So because they were in the wrong zone we in generally ignored them.

2) This one is Exemplar related. In typical TF/Team fashion when doing a Kill X mission of a mob type lower than your level you spread out to kill it. Well we discovered that if the Exemplar is not with the rest of the team when the Kill X switched the ambush mobs were suddenly geared to the highest Combat Level on the team which at that time is 45.

So what happens is that most of the ambushes were coming through at level 45 until we got toward the end and were within range. Still there's no chance that a team designed for 35-38 range can handle the level 45 ambushes. So they leave them generally in the Zone they land in and move on (heck we did, I imagine everyone else does to generally).

[FrankBooth]

As a tank, the aggro from previous patches really annoyed me big-time. I joined a Manticore TF this morning expecting to be annoyed for a few hours. You wouldn't believe how delighted I was to find enemies running up and attacking me! In fact, I look forward to any future exemplar experiences I will encounter.

Good job on fixing that! :D

[ QUOTE ]
As of 10/20 how is Exemplar Aggro?

[/ QUOTE ]

[Samhaine]

[ QUOTE ]
My only suggestion: Make it so that when you are in the mission as an exemplar, you cannot unexemplar. It's too tempting and too easy to /unex when the Schmidt hits the fan so you and your buddy(s) don't die.

[/ QUOTE ]

/disagree

For me, that's the real benefit for trading off forward advancement and access to powers: When the mentoring session takes an ugly turn you can unleash your real potential on your foes to protect your student. Especially with the ability to get deeper into debt mentioned further down the thread from your post, forcing characters to be stuck at a low level is basically like punishing them for helping their friends. That nobody really gets any exp for the mobs that drop once you unexemplar is penalty enough for doing so, there's no need to make some arbitrary level lock during missions.

At least in my opinion.

[Megumiko]

[ QUOTE ]
As of 10/20 how is Exemplar Aggro?

[/ QUOTE ]

Took me a bit to realize that the mobs weren't running from me the other day after the patch. We'd worked out strategies to deal with mobs running. (Ok, not really. we just waited until they came back or just chased 'em down.) So, it was a pleasant surprise to see that I was pulling aggro in missions.

Then I noticed I was pulling aggro outside of the mission too, LOL. That took a few times of passing through mob groups out of habit and suddenly getting hit to realize I needed to stop doing that.

I'd really liked the exemplar option before, now I LOVE it! Thanks for fixing that.

In response to some comments above: You SHOULD get your debt at normal levels when you are defeated while exemplaring, because if they changed that then SKs would have to get debt at THEIR fighting level and can you imagine trying to work off a level 40's debt at say, level 5? You'll note, as well, that as an exemplar you do not lose all of your inspiration slots nor all of your enhancement slots (though they are less effective, than they would be at your normal level.) These things are because your aren't REALLY whatever level you've exemplared down to.

I do not have a problem with the debt. Generally it's my idiot fault for getting debt in the first place, and the debt is worked off quickly anyway.

Besides, in my view the real point of exemplaring is just having another way for two friends with wide level ranged character to play together. I can play my level 26 scrapper while my hubby builds up his new defender and we don't always have to do my missions if we group. We're both happy.

As for un-exemplaring during TFs I have mixed feeling about this. On the one hand it seems cheesy to let an exemplar blow through the task force for the team.

But on the other hand, if the team doesn't mind who am I to say, "How dare you not get exp for all the mobs and only take the badge and the mission exp????"

There are times when exemplaring out of TFs (not exemped in a TF yet) where it is necessary to save the team. We, in our group of players, call it the "Ultimate Buff." When this happens everyone who calls for the exemplar(s) to un-RSK themselves know they will not get exp. But they'd rather take the exp hit then get lots of debt taking out that level 8 boss mob that has fire imps, jack frost and a TON of other ridiculous powers for a level 8 boss (or whatever unpected and devastating situation that can come up.)

I realize that the idea is to keep some one from joining a pick up TF as an exemplar and then un-RSKing and running amuck so he can get his badge and screw over his team mates. But let's not punish the good people because of the actions of a few. Punish them. Ban them. Whatever.

Personally, as a side note, if the devs can't trust players to not grief as an exemplar how can they trust players to not grief in PvP?
:p

[Cynical_Daria_M]

As of now the exemplar works well the only thing i do not like is how i am booted if i lose connection or if my partner loses connection i know its only to stop people from abusing it but find a better way cause i lose connection alot :p

[Imort]

Heh... wonder if this changes the great Tactic of using the Sk'd lowbie as the puller :)

The SK'd lowbie can pull minion after minion with only 1 coming....

If they fixed the threat level... oh well :) heh.

Can we get Exemplared to talk to previous contacts as well? Is that easier to implement than just letting us talk to them all the time? Just cap their mission level....
I understand that you wanted to give the street sweeping Heroes a reason to do thier mission. Rather than just level way up fast and go back and burn thorugh the contacts whenever.... but mission bonuses are reasonable good now... so that should be enough incentive?

[Jomero]

Eh, of course people would rather take a few experience points than debt. That's a no-duh situation at any level. It's too easy to do that though, and it guarantees your group is never in any REAL danger during the mission. To my knowledge, Cryptic is a big fan of risk vs. reward, which is why Task Forces are a bit tough anyway. Losing a couple potential experience points is not enough of a penalty.

If you don't like the whole "not able to /unEx during a misison" then I propose this: if you /unEx, you have to wait at least 5 or 10 minutes before you can re-Exemplar. That sounds fair enough to me. It forces downtime for an ultimate party save like that, and if you are /unExemplaring a lot then maybe your group shouldn't be fighting that tough of a mission anyway and/or need to get their act together a bit more quickly.

[mortiana]

The level 45 mob ambush on Numina's task force isn't exemplar related. When a friend and I duo'ed this tf, we were both 38 and got this exact same ambush. I died, /bugged it and moved on.

[Adam7]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My only suggestion: Make it so that when you are in the mission as an exemplar, you cannot unexemplar. It's too tempting and too easy to /unex when the Schmidt hits the fan so you and your buddy(s) don't die.

[/ QUOTE ]

/disagree

For me, that's the real benefit for trading off forward advancement and access to powers: When the mentoring session takes an ugly turn you can unleash your real potential on your foes to protect your student. Especially with the ability to get deeper into debt mentioned further down the thread from your post, forcing characters to be stuck at a low level is basically like punishing them for helping their friends. That nobody really gets any exp for the mobs that drop once you unexemplar is penalty enough for doing so, there's no need to make some arbitrary level lock during missions.


[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with this reply... seriously, as an exemplar, you are voluntarily limiting yourself and your powers in order to better teach a younger hero and set an example... however, that being said, if things take a serious wrong turn, what mentor wouldnt unleash his full fury to save himself and his ward from certain defeat?
I can see it now...

Robin: Thanks for helping me out tonight batman. I'm having trouble with that crazy wombat kick you taught me last night.
Batman: Not a problem robin, now, lets run some wombat training on those muggers over there.
Robin: O-K!
(dynamic duo leaps into action)
(things start to go horribly wrong)
Robin: Holy Horrific Butt-Whupping Batman! these guys are wiping the floor with us!
Batman: Just keep at it chum!
Robin: But maybe you should stop showing me the right way to throw a punch, and just beat them down?
Batman: But Robin, I'm setting an EXAMPLE here... dont you get it? WOMBAT KICK!
Robin: But, but but but we are getting murdered over here! Throw a batarang or something!
Batman: Maybe so robin, but us being sent to the hospital full of broken bones is a learning experience!
Robin: This is bull$#!^.
Batman: (WHAM!) Oh that one hurt! You just wait mugger, when we get out of the hospital we'll try this one more time!
Robin: (muttering) maybe captain america is hiring? i bet bucky never had to deal with this crap...



oh and as a side note: you are NOT allowed to unex during a TF... the option is greyed out.
and RSKing seems to be working appropriately as well.

[Dead_Hero]

Works! Glad this got fixed.

[OldKingCold]

Just wanted to report that I took my 43 blaster last night and exemplar'd to some 32s in Bricks (Great way to get rid of debt and meet new people) and the aggro was perfect. The 32 blaster I was exemplar'd to was drawing equal reactions/aggro as I was.

Damn, if you guys keep fixing things this fast, I'm NEVER going to get frustrated, quit and spend some quality time with that Rome: Total War I picked up. ;)

[Doc_Phantom]

[ QUOTE ]

The bugs with the TF was the Ambushes:

1) They happen in the wrong zone -- not Exemplar related, but if I have to go kill 20 Sky Raiders in Terra Volta, why are they ambushing me in Crey's Folley, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

There were ambushes? Oops. Sorry victory peeps! That means I left ambushes in like 10+ zones... ouch.

[Sandy_Beach]

Did respec on my 49 scrapper last night exemplared down to 33. It worked great! I was initally concerned I was going to cause more harm than good, but was happily surprised.

Thanks a TON.

Sandy

[CocoT2]

[ QUOTE ]
I realize that the idea is to keep some one from joining a pick up TF as an exemplar and then un-RSKing and running amuck so he can get his badge and screw over his team mates. But let's not punish the good people because of the actions of a few. Punish them. Ban them. Whatever.

Personally, as a side note, if the devs can't trust players to not grief as an exemplar how can they trust players to not grief in PvP?



[/ QUOTE ]

You NEVER trust society to do anything but what's in its best interest.

And players WILL take advantage of every potential advantage you give them. It's simple human nature.

That said, I'd be in favor of a 1 minute Exemplar timer... where it takes 60 seconds to completely UnRSK. If your partner goes afk, you have 60 seconds to get a new RSK. With this system, they can of course allow UnRSKing in TFs... But if your minute timer ellapses and you finish RSKing, you're dropped from the TF as designed.


This would ultimately kill the whole, UnRSKing to save your team strategy, but thats a gimp strategy to begin with.... but like I said, players will take advantage of any advantage you give them... and then try to pass it off as strategy.

[Ballpin]

Coco - How would a player be taking advantage of the system by UnRSKing? the "advantage" leads to no exp.
The game is based off a Risk V. Reward and when you un-SK for no risk - you get no reward. Makes sense to me.

The only "benefit" is you get a badge - which does absolutley nothing for your charater. And just running through the TF takes about 2+ hours. So - 2 Hours game time, to get a badge with no XP earned seems like a fair compensation.

[Unpronounceable]

Exemplaring worked peachy for me...

Hmm...is it possible to give a '5 minute warning' for de-exemplared heroes? Basically keep from booting them from the tf, long enough for a connection (theirs or their rsk's) to be re-established?

[LordMelkor]

Exemplaring is not ballenced for Risk vs Reward.

There is much more risk being Exemplared them not and the reward is 1/2 of what you would normaly get (only xp for debt OR Influnence)

If they lock you in as Exemplar then you should get FULL rewards at your normal lvl. (XP not just for debt, Influnce and Enhancments of your lvl/type)

[Jaden_Kor]

When exemplared i have to be careful when running through zones cause things will attack you now that are at your exemplar lvl or higher (well and a little below, but who fears those little greys anyways ;))

[WingsOfGlory]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm happy that you fixed the Aggro issues but I don't like how I get the same amount of debt as I do when I'm not Exemplared when I am defeated. It's a horrible feeling when you get debt while you are trying to get rid of it. If you take away powers that we got at later levels then take away the higher levels of debt as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I started a mission yesterday with 2 others exemplared. About 10% into the mission, I died, gaining 56,000 debt. Before the mission was over, I was out of debt.

I really don't think its that bad.

[Petina]

It seems funny to me, but I think the solution to the exemplar problem might be to leave you exemplared through a logout like sk's were before. Maybe make this a special case for task forces, but it wouldn't hurt in general. You always have the unsk button in a team, and on a TF you should still get kicked if you unsk. This seems like a simple solution to me. It would allow an exemplar to continue the TF through connection problems. You would still have an issue if your buddy actually left the TF, but that's another story. An RSK timer would fix this, but just seems like more trouble than it would be worth.

Just my 15M inf.

[Rylos]

Aggro issues were just fine when a new toon did the Positron TF. Only issue was the TF leader was an exemplar'd lvl 41 and when the ambush happened it brought in some lvl 41 CoT's in Steel Canyon that creamed the leader in one shot...POW! I hope nobody else got creamed...the rest of us just ran. Might want to set the ambush spawn a little differently. Cause they kept chasing us til he went to the hospital Otherwise great fun!

[Dravkwn]

I think the exemplar function was a good idea just the way it was implimented is flawwed instead of attaching your exemplar to a player it should be attacked to the team itself likely = to the highest lvl person in the team thats not also an exemplar but make it so you can't have more exemplars than normal folks then no matter who drops the function remains functional to its fullest.

[EvanMC]

Howabout when joining a TF as exemplar you're exemplared by the TF to the TF's highest level? Can only be undone by quitting or finishing the TF? That way, if your Exemplar buddy has to drop, you don't have to as well?

Or even a group of friends who're in their 20s can go do the Positron TF.. they get deleveled down to 16 to do the TF? That'd work great. :)

[Zylox]

I have still noticed that if not provoked, in a group, the mobs will pick on me over everyone else. I don't draw unnecessary aggro during battle, but if a mob charges, all the ranged attackers always hit me first. Like they know at any time I could bust out level 30 on their behinds.

[Axterix]

[ QUOTE ]
The level 45 mob ambush on Numina's task force isn't exemplar related. When a friend and I duo'ed this tf, we were both 38 and got this exact same ambush. I died, /bugged it and moved on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yah, the family one. I'm guessing it searches for mobs of the right faction at or above the player's level. Since family stop at 30ish from the IP/Talos zone/contacts and then there are 2 missions in the 45-50 range...you get the 45s.

[ QUOTE ]
1) They happen in the wrong zone -- not Exemplar related, but if I have to go kill 20 Sky Raiders in Terra Volta, why are they ambushing me in Crey's Folley, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same reason they always do. Ambushes pick a player to go after for some reason and then spawn where that player is. No different than it is with any regular mission.

[DreadDormammu]

[ QUOTE ]
For me, that's the real benefit for trading off forward advancement and access to powers: When the mentoring session takes an ugly turn you can unleash your real potential on your foes to protect your student. Especially with the ability to get deeper into debt mentioned further down the thread from your post, forcing characters to be stuck at a low level is basically like punishing them for helping their friends. That nobody really gets any exp for the mobs that drop once you unexemplar is penalty enough for doing so, there's no need to make some arbitrary level lock during missions.


[/ QUOTE ]
Spot on. There is no real reward worth thinking about for /exemplaring, so there should be no real penalty. It's just a way to play with friends. Don't make it a huge risk on top of that.

[Zeppline]

I agree

[LadyMage]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree

[/ QUOTE ]

Where the heck did you dredge this post up from?

Someone's been practicing thread-cromancy.

[misfiring]

i finally finished the positron TF last night and if any i'd say i aggro'd a bit less than i'm used to now.

but then i had a good tanker with me.

I've been dropped out of a great TF team when i was exemped on the server down a few days ago and i was really anoyed by it..
but after doing positron i got out of the 230k debt i earned killing 50 malta so meh...

The hardest part about exemping is that you can never leave your pc for the duration of the tf normally i have breaks now and then or with a 4 hours TF i might even want to continue the next day..
but oh well.

[Tiger_Bomb]

This is my nominee for best thread ever.

Not only is it *amazingly* impressive to necro something on a board as crazy as this one that's 5 months old, but it also generated an "I agree" response at that point.

I think we need to keep it alive indefinately at this point, just for history's sake....

[Valaton]

[ QUOTE ]
This is my nominee for best thread ever.

Not only is it *amazingly* impressive to necro something on a board as crazy as this one that's 5 months old, but it also generated an "I agree" response at that point.

I think we need to keep it alive indefinately at this point, just for history's sake....

[/ QUOTE ]

I could direct you to a thread where Cuppa posted about the manual update coming with Issue 3, if you like...y'all are more than welcome to necro that one too. It's even six months old, just like this one.

Here be the link! (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1638333&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1)

[Zeppline]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree

[/ QUOTE ]

Where the heck did you dredge this post up from?

Someone's been practicing thread-cromancy.

[/ QUOTE ]

What can I say, my powers are great and terrible. Ive got more evil things, but they would probably be censored.

[Bluejoules2]

10 points!~!