Spines/DA: The Dust Bunny's AoE Guide

[Romance]

Spines/Dark Armor - The AoE Dust Bunny

In this thread I shall be looking at the rare build that is Spines/DA. It's one of the small group of player-based damage-over-time attackers, the most prominent of these being the burn tanker. First there's going to be a few general points, then a look at the potential power choices and at the end will be three variations on this build. So if you want builds skip to the end.

The drawbacks of Spines/DA, what are they?
Endurance issues are the number one problem of Spines/DA. You use your endurance like there's no tomorrow, entering combat with 2/3s endurance or taking rests has become a common place thing for me.
You have no way of running your main resistance shields along with your status protection. Currently they are mutually exculsive, but this is being looked at (it just might take a few months to come into play. :()
Do not pick this build if you care what your toon looks like, believe you me it's an ugly mess. But I like it :)
You are not indestructable, and never will be. The other three Scrapper secondaries will outshine you in a team situation. But occasionally people will go 'Wow'
It takes ages to switch your toggles back on, all of them with the exception of Quills and Dark Embrace have uninterruptable animations. This results in the Dark Armour Dance before combat.

Now we've had the drawbacks what are the advantages?
Dark Armor has the second strongest PBDoT effect after burn, this is one of the main reasons to bother with DA over the other, currently more superior Scrapper secondaries. When combined with Quills (and Quills slow effect) you get a significant amount of damage and the potential to /em newspaper mobs to death. Which always causes a few chuckles for the people who see it.
You'll have massive AoE attacks, but pretty much nothing else. You have to live with the fact that you'll be on minion mop up duty in most AV fights and you should avoid Bosses where possible too.
Psionic Restistance. For a lot of the game this won't factor in much, but in the 40 plus game (which I play due to sidekicking :)) psionic resistance comes into its own. I've stood toe to toe with Psychic Babbage and Psychic Clockwork King when Invun and Regen Scrappers have fallen down to overwhelming single strikes. But Psionic enemies are few and far between, and many of them have alternate damage types (like Rikti Bosses) so this is a tiny area in which to be king. Still it's nice to be number one in one area. :)

What should I be killing?
Minions, minions, minions. Those big packs of 10+ white/yellow minions will become your friend. In the earlier game you can farm Blues with little risk at a fair pace and go with quantity rather than quality. This is in fact the creed of the Spines/DA scrapper, at the end of the day all exp is the same. Exp from bosses/AVs isn't more special than exp from minions. The minions I prey on are those without High Lethal or Negative Resistance or stacks of Status effects so Hellions, 5th Column, Freaks (when I can't find anything else), Crey (avoiding the tanks), Sky Raiders, Werewolves etc.
Bosses and AVs will give you a nightmare, this is where knowing a good single target Scrapper/Blaster pays off dividends, you'll be so specialised in minion farming that even a pair of bosses can be problematic to take down with any pace. Oh and those CoT Behemoths with Invincibility are irritating. Spines Acc sucks anyway without added debuffs.

Am I soloer?
Yes you can solo, that's the beauty of this build. But you can't solo every situation and also when soloing you'll have to take a lot of Endurance breaks and spend time switching toggles on and off.
If you want a decent pair of heroes to team with you can't go wrong with an Ice/Ice (Or Elec/Energy) Blaster and an Empathy/Dark(or Rad/Dark) Defender. The plug they holes in your build nicely.

When do I get my uber power?
There is no single power that rules the roost in DA, it's a utility set that adapts to different situations, you'll find yourself switching toggles on and off depending on the situations requirements. The DA set requires a lot of thought to use correctly, you might die a fair amount to using the wrong toggles for a given situation. It really is a case of 'know thy enemy' if you know what you're heading into then you have a fair shot at mopping up quickly.

Power Choice Breakdown:
Spines:
Barb Swipe vs Lunge:
Both Single Target (Barb = Minor + DoT/Lunge = Moderate+ DoT) attacks with -speed and -recharge effects.
For most people on the forums this isn't a debate, Lunge is considered to be superior. And for the most part this is infact true. But Barp Swipe can have a home in the S/DA build where it's advantages come into light. We all know the problems with Barb Swipe, low damage, long animation time. But it does have a few advantages that can be effective, especially in this build. Barb's animation time isn't an issue when most of your damage is coming from PBAoEs, Barb/Lunge is infact filler that passes the time while waiting for Spine Burst to get back online. While 'stuck' in the attack animation you'll notice that your PBAoEs are still chipping away at the mobs around you.
The other advantages to barb are it's low endurance cost, endurance will always be a problem with this build. The only way to solve it permanently is to team up with a defender that has endurance buffs. Barb has a minimal End cost and as a consequence it can be cycled several more times than Lunge could be without causing the risk of your toggles dropping.
The second advantage is the slow effect, Barb cycles back into the attack cycle faster than any other Spines attack. This means it's the only power other than Quills that allows reasonable stacking of the Spines slow effect. Last of all Barb + Kick (and maybe boxing I've not tested that cycle) is a continous chain of barb, kick, barb, kick, barb, kick. With no breaks in the cycle at all. You can spam these two over and over at Lts/Bosses while waiting for Burst to come back online.
The advantages of Lunge over Barb have been well documented, it has superior damage and a faster animation time. But it looks a lot less cool.
Slotting: Acc. If you want more single target damage go with Lunge and add more Dam slots to it

Spine Burst:
Melee AoE, Moderate + DoT, -speed -recharge
This is your number 1 attack for most of the game, combined with build up it's the opener of most combats and quite often the finisher. It's a superb attack with one drawback, the Endurance cost on it is huge (22) which makes it prohibitive to use more than twice a fight. The good news? Twice is all you'll need vs Lts and minions.
Slotting: Acc, Dam, Dam, Dam, Dam, EndRedux

Build Up:
Self +Acc +Dam
I think just about everyone in the game knows how Build Up works. It increases the damage of your attacks for a short period. It is worth noting that both Quills and Death Shroud also benefit from this boost. So popping Build Up at the last possible moment is quite the art form. :p
Slotting: With Hasten:- Recharge. Without - Recharge, Recharge, Recharge.

Impale:
Ranged, Moderate + DoT, Foe Immobilise -recharge.
Impale is a great single target attack, many scrappers love having a power to lock down runners I don't feel it's essential to the Spines/DA build. Unslotted it's not a very impressive power damage wise. I'm not fond of it but most Spines Scrappers would tell you otherwise. I feel it's an optional extra in the S/DA build
Slotting: Acc - if used to stop runners, Acc, Dam, Dam, Dam, Dam, Dam if you want the single target damage.

Taunt:
Ranged - Foe Taunt
There's not much to say about taunt, it has some uses in stopping runners, but Impale or Provoke do the job better. It's only worth considering if you can't find room for Provoke's Power Pool and you want some way of pulling agro away from other team members. Even then it's a bit of a sad power. In all honesty I'd advise skipping this, there's better choices out there.
Slotting: How about slotting Provoke instead?

Quills:
Toggle, PBAoE, Minor DoT, -Speed -Recharge.
This is one of your three main attack powers, by itself it can seem a little underwhelming when you first get it. The damage seems a little low considering the endurance cost. But persevere with it, the power shines whine slotted up and stacked with Death Shroud. It also has another advantage, it's the got the strongest slowing effect in the Spines line due to the speed at which it pulses. Whe mobs run away you'll notice the amount with which they have been slowed. For the direction I'm taking this build this is a must take power.
Slots: Acc, Dam, Dam, Dam, Dam, EndRedux

Ripper:
Cone, Heavy + DoT, Foe Immoblise, Knockdown, -Recharge, -Speed
This is the single target attack of choice, if you want to put the hurt on bosses and AVs this will be one of your primary ways of doing so. The power is awesome fun but it does have a lengthy animation time of several seconds. Be aware of your End and HPs when you activate this, don't get caught out in the middle of it when you should be running away. There are several tricks to using the cone correctly. It's a generous sized cone (when compared to Shadow Maul anyway) if a little short in length. If you wish to maximise the damage dealt by Ripper I'd advise practicing luring mobs over fences, they tend to jump over and land at similar points. Which provides you with a tight pack of targets to knock over onto their bums.
Slotting: Acc, Dam, Dam, Dam, Dam, Dam, Maybe an EndRedux if you plan to use this a lot.

Throw Spines:
Huge Cone, Moderate + DoT, Foe, Knockback, -Recharge, -Speed
What's not to like about this power? It's not the most damaging AoE in the game, it doesn't have the largest radius but it deals reasonable damage at short range to a large cone, the cone is more like a 180 corridor infront of you. Jumping just before releasing this power allows the spines to travel a little further before impact, which widens the cone slighty. It's an ace power that is a lot of fun to use.
Slotting:Acc, Dam, Dam, Dam, Dam, Dam

Dark Armor:
A lot of additional information on DA can be found here (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1493975&page=5&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#1493975) in this guide by elnino79 so I'm only going to touch on a couple of Spines/DA specific points here:

Dark Embrace:
Toggle +Res Smashing, Lethal, Negative
Smashing/Lethal Shield, doesn't stack with Obsidian shield. :(
Slotting: Right now without stacking? Res. When we get stacking 6 Slot this with Res.

Death Shroud:
Toggle PBAoE Minor Negative Damage
The third power that provides the heartbeat of Spines/DA combined with Quills this is around 40-70 damage per pulses (varying with mob type and Build up.) Also it is Negative damage and as a consequence is rarely resisted by mobs. This means it will often deal max or close to max damage.
Slotting: Acc, Dam, Dam, Dam, Dam, EndRedux

Murky Cloud:
Toggle +Res Energy, Cold, Fire, Negative
Right now this is a totally situational shield. Worth considering very early in the game and very late on in the game. But without status protection you can't consider using this except in very narrow situations.
Slotting: 5-6 * Res for those few situations where it's useful.

Obsidian Shield:
Toggle +Res to Psionic, Sleep, Hold, Disorientate
The shield of choice for the post 30 game. Combine it with Tough to try and make up for your lack of stacking resistance shields.
Slotting: For most of the game: Endredux. Late game (40+): Endredux, Res, Res, Res, Res, Res

Dark Regeneration:
PBAoE Minor Damage -> Self Heal
For most of the game you'll be trying to keep your Endurance up high enough to use this when things go wrong. The Endurance cost on this is monsterous. But it is the best single heal in the game, I've healed myself of 2 - 3K HPs with a click of this. It does have some problems though, there is a gap between the damage being dealt and you getting the HPs also atm it bugs and looks fully recharged when there's approx 5 seconds left. During this period if you activate it you'll get the animation but no benefits of the heal.
Slotting: EndRedux, EndRedux, EndRedux, EndRedux, Recharge, Recharge or Acc, EndReux * 3, Recharge *2

Cloak of Darkness:
Toggle +Stealth + Def
Providing a stealth effect combined with a 7.5% (maybe 10% not confirmed) defense bonus makes Cloak a neat little package. But it has one huge bonus. It makes your toon dissapear. Not turn transparant like most Invis powers but actually vanish leaving behind only the effects. What is so great about this? Well when you hit lvl 30 and have Auras you'll see. (or you can look about on the scrapper forums and see if someone will post you a link to a picture :p)
Slotting:Endredux, or 5 * Defbuff + Endredux.

Cloak of Fear:
Toggle PBAoE Fear
Elnino knows more about the CoF + 'Voke thing than I do I point you in his direction (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1493975&page=5&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#1493975) for the details on that.

Opressive Gloom:
Toggle PBAoE Disorientate
Having gotten this I'm of the opinion you can skip it for the moment, CoF + Voke does the job better. It's like a win more power, it helps you take on the groups of minions that you could take on before. But it does have some practical applications against +2 or higher minions (and the health loss is lower vs. them too.) But I've yet to stun a Lt with this power.
Slotting: Acc

Note: I'm not even going to look at Soul transfer other than to say avoid it.

Pool Powers:
There are 5 pools that provide the largest benefit to a Spines/DA scrapper. 2 of them are essential, another I consider to be very helpful and the last two optional.
Essentials:
Fitness - For Stamina. Take Hurdle, Health/Swift, Stamina.
Slotting: Stamina: 6 * EndRecov. Rest of them leave single slotted
Fighting - For Tough. You'll want it 6 slotted with Res by the 30s.
Kick/Boxing will be the second attack you cycle while waiting on Spine Burst. Keep them Single slotted with an Acc.
Weave is an optional power, but you have so many toggles it might not be practical. You can just use CoD if you so desire.

Helpful:
Leaping: - Combat Jumping covers the lack of Immobilisation protection DA has, and Acrobatics covers the knockdown. Plus Super Jump is so much fun. All of those powers are fine with the initial slot, nothing more than that is required.

Optional:
Speed: - Hasten is totally optional in this build, you don't need it to kill faster. Yes, I said that. Most of your damage comes from Quills + Death Shroud, Hasten doesn't help with these. The other problems are Hasten just amplifies your massive endurance issues and the Endurance drop from Hasten running out can be fatal, you have to know exactly when it'll happen inorder to avoid your toggles dropping off in combat.
Super Speed adds additional stealth to stack with Cloak of Darkness for near Invisibility.
Slotting: Hasten: 5 or 6 Recharge, Super Speed: As is with an EndRedux.

Presence: Optional if you don't want to Cloak of Fear + Provoke mobs to kill them. You'd only want this pool for Provoke, it's a bit of a pain having to take an entire pool choice for one power but if you group with blasters a lot you may well need this to keep the agro from switching to them.
Slotting: With Hasten: Acc, Without: Acc, Taunt, Taunt

Without further ado here are the builds:

elnino79's Hasted Build.
Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Melee : Spines
Secondary Powers - Defense : Dark Armor
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Lunge /Acc
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[03] Level 2 : Spine Burst /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[04] Level 4 : Death Shroud /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[05] Level 6 : Build Up /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[06] Level 8 : Impale /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[07] Level 10 : Hasten /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[08] Level 12 : Obsidian Shield /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[09] Level 14 : Super Speed /Run
Slot[10] Level 16 : Hurdle /Jump
Slot[11] Level 18 : Health /Heal
Slot[12] Level 20 : Stamina /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Slot[13] Level 22 : Quills /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[14] Level 24 : Dark Regeneration /Acc,EndRdx,EndRdx,EndRdx,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[15] Level 26 : Boxing /Acc
Slot[16] Level 28 : Tough /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[17] Level 30 : Weave /DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf
Slot[18] Level 32 : Throw Spines /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[19] Level 35 : Cloak Of Darkness /DefBuf
Slot[20] Level 38 : Murky Cloud /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[21] Level 41 : Combat Jumping /DefBuf
Slot[22] Level 44 : Super Jump /Jump
Slot[23] Level 47 : Acrobatics /Rchg
Slot[24] Level 49 : Soul Transfer /Heal

Note this build was created before CoF + 'Voke was discovered. I'm not sure exactly what would be switched about to fit those in. Elnino79 can chime in if he wants to post what he'd change now.

rrhal's non-Hasten build.
Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Melee : Spines
Secondary Powers - Defense : Dark Armor
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Lunge /Dmg
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /EndRdx
Slot[03] Level 2 : Death Shroud /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[04] Level 4 : Spine Burst /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[05] Level 6 : Build Up /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[06] Level 8 : Combat Jumping /EndRdx
Slot[07] Level 10 : Boxing /Acc
Slot[08] Level 12 : Swift /Run
Slot[09] Level 14 : Tough /EndRdx,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[10] Level 16 : Super Jump /Jump
Slot[11] Level 18 : Quills /EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[12] Level 20 : Hurdle /Jump
Slot[13] Level 22 : Stamina /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Slot[14] Level 24 : Dark Regeneration /EndRdx,EndRdx,EndRdx,Rchg,Rchg,Acc
Slot[15] Level 26 : Provoke /Acc,Acc,Taunt,Rchg,Taunt
Slot[16] Level 28 : Cloak Of Fear /Acc,EndRdx,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb,EndRdx
Slot[17] Level 30 : Obsidian Shield /EndRdx,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[18] Level 32 : Throw Spines /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[19] Level 35 : Oppressive Gloom /EndRdx,Acc,Acc,Dsrnt
Slot[20] Level 38 : Weave /EndRdx,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf
Slot[21] Level 41 : Murky Cloud /EndRdx,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[22] Level 44 : Impale /Acc
Slot[23] Level 47 : Cloak Of Darkness /EndRdx,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf
Slot[24] Level 49 : Acrobatics /EndRdx

rrhal designed this to work as a duo with an exact copy of it as his partner in crime fighting. It's similar to the build I use, but he came up with it independantly from me.

My own variant:
Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Melee : Spines
Secondary Powers - Defense : Dark Armor
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Barb Swipe /Acc
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[03] Level 2 : Spine Burst /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,EndRdx
Slot[04] Level 4 : Death Shroud /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,EndRdx
Slot[05] Level 6 : Build Up /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[06] Level 8 : Kick (Fight) /Acc
Slot[07] Level 10 : Hurdle /Jump
Slot[08] Level 12 : Combat Jumping /DefBuf
Slot[09] Level 14 : Super Jump /Jump
Slot[10] Level 16 : Health /Heal
Slot[11] Level 18 : Quills /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,EndRdx
Slot[12] Level 20 : Stamina /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Slot[13] Level 22 : Dark Regeneration /EndRdx,EndRdx,EndRdx,EndRdx,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[14] Level 24 : Tough /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[15] Level 26 : Obsidian Shield /EndRdx,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[16] Level 28 : Cloak Of Darkness /EndRdx,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf
Slot[17] Level 30 : Acrobatics /EndRdx
Slot[18] Level 32 : Throw Spines /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[19] Level 35 : Oppressive Gloom /Acc
Slot[20] Level 38 : Ripper /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[21] Level 41 : Murky Cloud /EndRdx,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes

Yes I don't CoF + 'Voke. Though I consider it almost daily (and do have it on test.)

But with those three different builds to consider you can see the powers that are considered essential and the themes in slotting them up. I hope this is enough information for you to start if you consider treading the path of the Dust Bunny.
-Rom-

PS. if you want to respond to this to ask me questions I'd advise asking here (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1503718&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#1503718), this link is inside the scrapper forum and I'm more likely to read it there. I don't venture outside the scrapper forum often these days. Also if there's anything else you feel I've missed feel free to ask about it or add it below here.

[MoonCreature]

Nice write-up. I'd like to point out that all of his advise on Spines is dead-on. I haven't gotten ripper / throw spines yet since i'm 23, but everything else I 2nd.

No comment on dark, don't use dark and don't particularly want to.

Thanks for your contribution!

[He_Who_Watches]

[ QUOTE ]
If you want a decent pair of heroes to team with you can't go wrong with an Ice/Ice (Or Elec/Energy) Blaster and an Empathy/Dark(or Rad/Dark) Defender. The plug they holes in your build nicely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally I would take a controller with FF or Kin secondary over the defender.
They can lock the mobs next to you (if you aren't already using CoF+'Voke) and both Kin and FF can keep you status free and kin makes all your end problems go away.
Just my opinion though

[Scuzzbopper]

Nice. You make me want to dust off my level 16 Spines/DA alt.

One thought I have about hasten (and granted I've only taken mine to 16 so far): Don't think of it in terms of hasten as "perma"-hasten all or nothing. I think this combo is one that you can take hasten and super-speed (as your movement power) and just leave hasten be with a single slot. You're not significantly more uber with perma-hasten, but hasten can still have value for your larger powers and the defense buff in boss fights and such, even if you never add a slot. Don't discount the value hasten can have, but don't think that you have to 6 slot it if you take it, either.

Seems like everybody has this mind set that hasten must be 6-slotted or nothing, but it doesn't have to be, and I think this power set combo is a good example of that.

[MasterHung]

nice guide, very informative

to answer the question on if i will change my build, i gotta take stingz into the field and see how he does. a lil after the update he didnt seem to have a prob though. i was taking out orange and red minion groups and farming xp without a problem, all the enemies would die before they could inflict any real damage on him. 6 slotted buildup + hasten is definitely a [censored], buildup recharges like once every 20-25 sec it seems lol

[Darkening_Flame]

A good look at Spines/DA, I'm impressed. I think it is important to note that at lvl 29 I am very glad I don't have hasten, I suppose for spine burst it would be nice, but I think that it probably belongs in another less end heavy build, especially spines/regen. I generally don't use spine burst until late in a fight against a large group of mobs, and will even hold off on BU until I have drained about 25% of thier HP, I find I walk out of the fight with much less END to regen.

The non-stacking of the armors is a problem, and has caused me to skip murky cloud and never slot dark embrace. This is unfortunate because of course I lack the benifit of some of my best defenses.

Steel Devil - Spines/DA - The Mercy Killers - Protector Server

[Screwloose]

Very nice guide.

I'll just mention one trick that I thought the "Scrapper formerly know as" might have mentioned.

Cloak of Fear (like all Fear effects) has a To Hit Debuff.

I've only just started using it vs Bosses, who won't run from the fear but seem to get the debuff because it feels like I am being missed a whole lot more.

regards, Screwloose.
36 Spines Dark Armour Scrapper Justice.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

[Demon_Nightmare]

Very good post, I would like to offer up my build, it focuses on both AoE (but w/o quills) and Single target damage (Impale and Ripper). I just rebuilt last week, thanks to everyone here that helped.

Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Melee : Spines
Secondary Powers - Defense : Dark Armor
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Lunge /Dmg
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /DamRes
Slot[03] Level 2 : Spine Burst /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[04] Level 4 : Death Shroud /Acc,EndRdx,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[05] Level 6 : Hasten /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[06] Level 8 : Build Up /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[07] Level 10 : Impale /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[08] Level 12 : Swift /Run
Slot[09] Level 14 : Super Speed /Run
Slot[10] Level 16 : Dark Regeneration /Acc,EndRdx,EndRdx,Rchg,Rchg,Dmg
Slot[11] Level 18 : Obsidian Shield /EndRdx,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[12] Level 20 : Cloak Of Darkness /EndRdx,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf
Slot[13] Level 22 : Health /Heal
Slot[14] Level 24 : Stamina /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Slot[15] Level 26 : Combat Jumping /DefBuf
Slot[16] Level 28 : Kick (Fight) /Dmg
Slot[17] Level 30 : Tough /EndRdx,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[18] Level 32 : Ripper /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[19] Level 35 : Throw Spines /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[20] Level 38 : Super Jump /Jump
Slot[21] Level 41 : Weave /EndRdx,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf
Slot[22] Level 44 : Murky Cloud /EndRdx,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[23] Level 47 : Acrobatics /EndRdx
Slot[24] Level 49 : Soul Transfer /Heal

[Constant_Motion]

I understand the reasoning behind slotting tough instead of dark embrace, since at this time de and obs shld are not stackable. But I have faith that they will be someday. When that day comes my question is this: which offers better protection de or tough? My own thought is that de will be better. yes or no?

[MasterHung]

Heres my updated build, what i would use

AoE Monster v3
Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Melee : Spines
Secondary Powers - Defense : Dark Armor
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Lunge /Acc,Dmg
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[03] Level 2 : Spine Burst /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[04] Level 4 : Death Shroud /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[05] Level 6 : Build Up /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[06] Level 8 : Impale /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[07] Level 10 : Hasten /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[08] Level 12 : Hurdle /Jump
Slot[09] Level 14 : Super Speed /Run
Slot[10] Level 16 : Health /Heal
Slot[11] Level 18 : Obsidian Shield /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[12] Level 20 : Stamina /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Slot[13] Level 22 : Quills /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[14] Level 24 : Dark Regeneration /Acc,EndRdx,EndRdx,EndRdx,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[15] Level 26 : Boxing /Acc
Slot[16] Level 28 : Tough /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[17] Level 30 : Provoke /Acc,Taunt
Slot[18] Level 32 : Throw Spines /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[19] Level 35 : Cloak Of Fear /EndRdx,EndRdx,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb
Slot[20] Level 38 : Taunt /Taunt
Slot[21] Level 41 : Murky Cloud /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[22] Level 44 : Cloak Of Darkness /DefBuf
Slot[23] Level 47 : Oppressive Gloom /Acc
Slot[24] Level 49 : Soul Transfer /Heal

as you see I use end reducers in everything, cause this build eats up end. Endrdx in attacks and offensive auras (DS,CoF) make a huge difference.

why no weave? because cloak of fear's acc debuff is SUPERIOR. acc debuff also means AoE defense, something weave doesnt provide. in a way this is dark armor's way to avoid aoe stuff.

instead of taking leap i went presence, because using CoF sort of requires provoke if used on minion / LT's

added in taunt at level 38, just in time for praetorian missions.. iuno why, i just love taunt. i tried dropping it from this build but i just can't. in scenarios where provoke misses a CoF'd target, taunting is a sure way to snag that one you missed with provoke (taunt never misses)

to add to that, provokes taunt duration doesnt cut the mustard against AV's when you're required to tank for the team (especially psi AV's as DA u'll be called on to do this). taunt spammed on an AV gets his undivided attention

testing this out it's a pretty good solo build that is basically an XP cruncher relying on killing mass minions and LT's in a hurry. In team play it also offers outstanding AoE support, lot of times outdamaging blasters later in the game. how? well blasters usually wont attack till the melee gets the aggro, and buildup+spine burst + throw spines+auras already equals dead even con-orange minions, alpha strikes belong to you :) I'm not saying this build does more damage than blasters can, just the fact you'll be attacking first to get the aggro, if you're fighting white-orange all blasters will be doing is playing mop up

[Vhaln]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand the reasoning behind slotting tough instead of dark embrace, since at this time de and obs shld are not stackable. But I have faith that they will be someday. When that day comes my question is this: which offers better protection de or tough? My own thought is that de will be better. yes or no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, DE is a base of 22% resist, while Tough is only 15% for scrappers. IIRC. I wouldn't build around "what the devs might do someday," though.

[Romance]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I understand the reasoning behind slotting tough instead of dark embrace, since at this time de and obs shld are not stackable. But I have faith that they will be someday. When that day comes my question is this: which offers better protection de or tough? My own thought is that de will be better. yes or no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, DE is a base of 22% resist, while Tough is only 15% for scrappers. IIRC. I wouldn't build around "what the devs might do someday," though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Vhaln is correct here. I finished slotting out DE at lvl 36 in preparation for any changes, but I ran the early game with it 4 slotted. It's worth noting that also DE provides a 15% base negative resist, which helps against CoT and Bone Daddies. DE is the superior power when looked at in a vacum.

Also it's worth noting that right now, with the changes to Martial Arts you can fight the grunt column (no vamps or mek men) with DE and tough running (yay for fighting 20+ mobs at once :p). They have such a pitiful chance to stun that I've only been hit by it once in 6 levels and even then I shook it off so fast that I was able to round a corner, get my toggles back on and finish the combat.

Thanks for the build update elnino, much appreciated. :) My build looks very similar but with Leaping instead of Speed. So I don't have the hastened goodness you have. But I got tired of knockdowns :p

[Constant_Motion]

I don't see why it's taking them so long on it, but I guess we have to move on. Plus I get another respec at 34 so here's what I'm looking at for now:

lvl 1 lunge, 3 slots
lvl 1 dark embrace, 6 slots
lvl 2 death shroud, 6 slots
lvl 4 spine burst, 5 slots
lvl 6 build up, 3 slots
lvl 8 hasten, 6 slots
lvl 10 impale, 4 slots
lvl 12 obsidian shield 6 slots
lvl 14 superspeed, 1 slot
lvl 16 dark regeneration, 5 slots
lvl 18 quills, 6 slots
lvl 20 hurdle, 1 slot
lvl 22 swift, 1 slot
lvl 24 stamina, 6 slots
lvl 26 cloak of darkness, 3 slots
lvl 28 boxing, 1 slot
lvl 30 tough, 6 slots
lvl 32 throw spines, 6 slots
lvl 35 oppressive gloom, 2 slots
lvl 38 ripper, 6 slots
lvl 41 weave, 3 slots
lvl 44 combat jump, 1 slot
lvl 47 superjump, 2 slots
lvl 49 acrobatics, 2 slots

I noticed ripper is often left out of an AoE build, but I like that move :) Should give me some bite when fighting bosses :)

[Tenacious_T]

A pool power question, if I may:

How does invisibility hold up with this? I've heard from other sources that being invis and popping in the middle of a group is quite handy, especially if you turn on the dark AoE once they all gather on you.

Also, I was really thinking about using Teleport as my travel power. Not only will it be good to TP into the middle of a group and set off quills/Dark AoE, but also to get away if I bite off more than I can chew. [b]Any feedback on this point/b]?

Thanks!

[Grotus]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, I was really thinking about using Teleport as my travel power. Not only will it be good to TP into the middle of a group and set off quills/Dark AoE, but also to get away if I bite off more than I can chew. Any feedback on this point?


[/ QUOTE ]
I use Teleport and like it with this AT combo. But make sure your Q/DS is up before you teleport in the middle of them. DS takes a while to start up, which defeats the purpose of teleporting in. So the timeline would be more like this:
1. Quills, Death Shroud up
2. Teleport into group
3. Build Up, [Your favorite combo here]
4. Summon Janitor to clean up the mess

[Tenacious_T]

Killer.

Thanks for the tip.

Any thoughts on invis?

[Romance]

Cloak of darkness provides some stealth effects in itself. I find this is sufficient to get the jump on most mobs. But personally I never turn off DS when playing, the rooted animation irritates me too much.

With Invis I'd assume this gives you a more effective version of Cloak of Darkness. But I couldn't tell you how much more effective it is as I've not tried it out. For the most part I've found that the range on DS/Quills and Spine Burst is enough to arrest most of the mobs before they close in a lot anyway.

I've thought about the Stealth line though, but mainly because I'd quite like to use Phase Shift. Depending on what happens to DA in the next update I might respec this pool in.

[Tenacious_T]

Gotcha.

Yeah, I forgot about the cloak of darkness.

If you try invis, let us know how it goes.

[Nowaki]

Quick question, Romance. Your write up describes Ripper as a single target attack. Is it a single target attack? I was under the impression that it's a melee-cone attack.

edit: never mind, I misread your description.

Thanks for the write up!

[Romance]

Yeah I kind of open with a claim that looks rather like it is a single target attack. At least right above there is the word Cone :D so it's not a total error.

I'll fix that when I rewrite this entire post, but that isn't happening until after EEPs are finalised on live and we have stacking armours.

Also I'm swinging between Impale and Ripper as the better Single Target attack. I think the knockdown, the cone and the ability to hit 4 mobs at once edges out the range on Impale. Especially now that we have the ability to hit runners and ranged attacks in the EPPs.

(I really should check this more often but it's such a rare build that people don't post much :p)

[eXnihilo_NA]

Very nice! Went and made a DA this sounded so fun.

[Romance]

Wanted to add a quick note here just to cover CoF changes in I3.

Once update 3 hits CoF will become a viable power for use as a DA scrapper again. It will not require the use of provoke to keep the mobs in CoF range as the flee effect has been removed.

The Debuff from CoF is estimated at -20% base, but the end drain is such on this that the power wants around 2 end redux. Accuracy is not needed so optimal slotting would be end redux *2, accdebuff *4.

The cowering effect of fear effects minons and lts. It's still debatable if this power is superior to Oppressive Gloom but I'm of the opinion that for Spines/DA it is. This is because S/DA is so effective at killing minions quickly it doesn't need to keep minions disorientated that much.
On the flip side OG is better when you go after +2 or +3 minions for exp as stunning them is far superior at reducing incoming damage than reducing their accuracy.

Ulitmately I'd say that you take both CoF and OG to use when the situation warrants it. Flexiblity and adaptable play style in various situations is one of the most enjoyable parts of a DA scrapper.

We just need stacking armours and we're set. (apart from the gfx/sound issues ;))

[Romance]

Another brief note just to talk about stacking armors now they've arrived on test.

I'm currently working on my version of the rebuild for Spines/DA the original build I have listed as my own is still viable and usable but in the 40+ game fast recharging Conserve Power becomes a huge boon to such an end gobbling build.

So I need to look at and write up about the EPPs. I think Body Mastery (with Conserve Power) is the EPP of choice for the Spines/DA scrapper but I need to get more data and speak to others.

[James_Bonnell]

I had just decided that my spine/dark (now 27, Porcupine Paul on Infinity) was on hold until stacking armors... and what do they go and do?!

Make the armors stack!

*grumble*... now I need to work YET ANOTHER ALT into my play rotation... ;) Nice problem to have since my spine/dark guy is fun. :)

So, anyway... I'm working on a build that will either Superjump or Teleport, but have no hasten (maybe until later).

I'm even thinking of putting off Dark Regen until 28, and probably picking up Murky at 30, just because there's no reason not to have it now.

1: Lunge, Dark Embrace (5) (damres)
2: Spine Burst (5) acc, endredux, dmg, dmg, dmg
4: Death Shroud (5) acc, endredux, dmg, dmg, dmg
6: Buildup (3) rchg,rchg,rchg
8: Impale (5) acc, dmg, dmg, dmg, dmg
10: Obsidian Shield (endredux)
12: CJ/Recall Friend (maybe)
14: Superjump/TP (maybe)
16: Swift (probably - currently a speedster)
18: Health
20: Stamina (6 duh)
22: Quills (2 at 27 - acc, endredux)
24: Cloak of Darkness (endredux)
26: Ripper (3 slotted at 27) acc, endredux, dmg or acc, dmg, dmg

I did a quick test mission (against even con Sky Raiders), and really had no problems with anything - the 26 Jump Bot went down pretty fast thanks to the boss rollback.

I'll sort-of miss Dark Regen (since it costs SO FREAKING MUCH endurance)... but the plan is to put it back at 28 - and I don't anticipate 27-28 taking all that long.

I'll probably also try Cloak of Fear at 28, just to see what it's like for me - the acc debuff can't hurt... if so, Dark Regen goes back at 30, and I'll get by with Health and greens until then.

[Romance]

I'd say get Dark Regen at 28 and CoF at 30. Of the two I find Dark Regen is the most effective out of the gate. I got through the 20s and most of the 30s without CoF and things haven't changed that much. Plus at 31 you can slot CoF up to 4 slots (which is enough to start using it in the face of it's end costs.)

Now Leaping vs Teleport is a choice between numbers and flavor. From a mechanical point of view Leaping is the only travel pool of choice for Dark Armor scrappers atm. Combat Jumping and Acrobatics cover the holes in your status protection that Obsidian shield has. Some people can live without Immobilisation or knockdown protection. I can't. Even my Defender has Acrobatics and CJ.

Immoblisation is actually quite dangerous to face as a scrapper. Anything which locks down your ablilty to move in combat has the potential to remove you from a fight or even kill you. Knockdown is irritating but deaths from perma-knockdown do occur and that is frustrating. Plus as a slight bonus the extra Hold resistance Acrobatics provides means that hopefully you'll rarely get held, even when multiple holds are stacked on you.

And you can live without hasten fine for quite a long while, but you might respec it in at the 40s to try and keep Conserve Power on for as long as possible. I know I have done.

Edit: oh and if you go with Super Jump, take hurdle over swift. The way it changes the shape and speed of your jumping works out for a lot faster travel speed.

[James_Bonnell]

Yeah, my fire tank has CJ/SJ/Acro/Hurdle, and my kat/regen scrapper has CJ/SJ/Integ/Swift/Hurdle, so I know the value of Hurdle/Acro full well. Hurdle absolutely rocks for SJ - it's about the value of adding an extra Jump SO to it, and faster to boot - almost as fast as unenhanced SS. It's definitely a good power for a jumper.

My two defenders and blaster have SS, and so does my spine/dark currently. I've been purposefully not using Hasten for a while with my spiner just to see if I can live without it.

With fully slotted Death Shroud and Quills, and slotted-up Buildup, I think I can... except when I'm slowed. (Stupid swarms/council freeze rifles/etc). I'm also so far going no-hasten on my kat/regen... while my fire tank just picked it back up, my kinetic couldn't deal without it, and my dark/elec and ar/dev prefer it. I'm certainly not anti-hasten, but there are so many things to slot on this build, as many if not more than my dark/elec (which is VERY tight on slots).

I have, however, been used to my Superspeed, and (if the test server copy tool will cooperate!), want to see if Swift + Sprint is "fast enough" combat ground movement... it's quite fast for my kat/regen. Health is a given.

I'll adjust to however fast it is, I just want to see if I prefer Hurdle for the CJ/SJ boost, or would prefer Sprint + Swift for this toon.

CJ/SJ/Acro certainly is the smart choice for status pro, I'll agree with that... the only reason I'm going to at least try TP on test is that, other than a Warshade, I don't have a toon with it... and the guy who posted in this thread about it made me think "huh, that would be different and interesting".

With about 5 active alts that I cycle regularly... different and interesting is good... and besides, I'm burning the free respec to do this one... I have 3 more I can do.

And with Impale and TP, Immobilization is less of a problem than it would be for some - IIRC you can TP while Immobilized. Knockdown will definitely get to me though - but at least Quills and Death Shroud work even when knocked down.

The 30s and 40s *are* knockdown fest, though, as my fire tank knows only too well.... I'd only be able to fit Acro in at 35/38, but that opens up some slots.

[de_absolutezero]

Hmm, I've been inspired to start a Spines/DA ever since I dusted off my old claw/DA scrapper and enjoyed it's AoE damage and then, saw how impressive a spines scrapper is at lvl 43. So I decided to combine the 2 :)

Great guide! Anyway, here's my build.

Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Ranged : Spines
Secondary Powers - Support : Dark Armor
Slot[1] Level 1 : Dark Embrace
Slot[2] Level 1 : Lunge
Slot[3] Level 2 : Spine Burst
Slot[4] Level 4 : Barb Swipe
Slot[5] Level 6 : Death Shroud
Slot[6] Level 8 : Impale <- I am currently here.
Slot[7] Level 10 : Obsidian Shield
Slot[8] Level 12 : Combat Jumping
Slot[9] Level 14 : Hurdle
Slot[10] Level 16 : Build Up
Slot[11] Level 18 : Health
Slot[12] Level 20 : Stamina
Slot[13] Level 22 : Quills
Slot[14] Level 24 : Cloak of Darkness
Slot[15] Level 26 : Ripper
Slot[16] Level 28 : Super Jump
Slot[17] Level 30 : Murky Cloud
Slot[18] Level 32 : Dark Regeneration
Slot[19] Level 35 : Quill Throwing
Slot[20] Level 38 : Cloak of Fear
Slot[21] Level 41 : Oppressive Gloom
Slot[22] Level 44 : Petrifying Gaze
Slot[23] Level 47 : Torrent
Slot[24] Level 49 : Tenebrous Tentacles

Yeah, i know i took both barb swipe and lunge :) I just like barb swipe's quick recharge rate and using it together with lunge means that i haev a good damage output in these early levels. If I find that I don't need it later, I'll respec it out and put Superjump and Buildup earlier.

Anyway, I took superjump quite late cos i'm hoping that i can depend on hurdle+combat jumping to get around. My SG mate at the same level has tp so i can prob get some teleporting around .

About the ancillary powers, I know conserve power is great and everyone's raving about it but I just can't explain being able to shoot energy torrents et al. Dark MAstery is more in character for me.

So, any thoughts, flames, constructive criticisms? All would be appreciated (except maybe the flames, heh)

Edit: Moved CoD up since I realise that I have no defense at all. Is Dark Regen at lvl 32 viable? I can always stock up on respites till then

[Romance]

[ QUOTE ]

Yeah, i know i took both barb swipe and lunge :) I just like barb swipe's quick recharge rate and using it together with lunge means that i haev a good damage output in these early levels. If I find that I don't need it later, I'll respec it out and put Superjump and Buildup earlier.


[/ QUOTE ]

Nowt wrong with taking both Barb and Lunge, especially if you're not taking the boxing/tough route (which isn't essential for post Update 3 DAs thank goodness.) They'll keep you entertained while DS/Quills whittle away and you wait for Spine Burst to recharge for the coupe de grace.

[ QUOTE ]

Anyway, I took superjump quite late cos i'm hoping that i can depend on hurdle+combat jumping to get around. My SG mate at the same level has tp so i can prob get some teleporting around.


[/ QUOTE ]
Heh when you take your travel power is up to you, I like mine asap cause I hate travelling from A to B slowly. Someone able to TP you about helps reduce the need for an early travel power a lot.

[ QUOTE ]

About the ancillary powers, I know conserve power is great and everyone's raving about it but I just can't explain being able to shoot energy torrents et al. Dark MAstery is more in character for me.


[/ QUOTE ]

Flavour first, mechanics second. That's always the way to do it. :) I advise on a purely mechanical point of view Body Mastery for Conserve Power. But Obviously Dark Mastery is far, far cooler and more thematic. Plus it has some strong powers too. I see no problems in picking it.

[ QUOTE ]

Edit: Moved CoD up since I realise that I have no defense at all. Is Dark Regen at lvl 32 viable? I can always stock up on respites till then


[/ QUOTE ]

It's a bit late, I'd take it at 30 if I can and get Throw Spines at 32. Try pushing Ripper back till after Throw Spines and moving the other powers up/about a bit. You have Impale, Lunge and Barb Swipe so you should be ok for single targets for quite a while.

Voila, no flames. But then Dust Bunnies aren't very flame retardant so we try to avoid fire. ;) Joking aside there's not a lot wrong with your choices. It's certainly a playable set of power picks. All I'd try and do is squeeze in Dark Regen a bit earlier. It's awfully good.

[de_absolutezero]

Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Ranged : Spines
Secondary Powers - Support : Dark Armor
Slot[1] Level 1 : Dark Embrace
Slot[2] Level 1 : Lunge
Slot[3] Level 2 : Spine Burst
Slot[4] Level 4 : Barb Swipe
Slot[5] Level 6 : Death Shroud
Slot[6] Level 8 : Impale
Slot[7] Level 10 : Obsidian Shield
Slot[8] Level 12 : Hurdle
Slot[9] Level 14 : Combat Jumping
Slot[10] Level 16 : Build Up
Slot[11] Level 18 : Health
Slot[12] Level 20 : Stamina
Slot[13] Level 22 : Quills
Slot[14] Level 24 : Cloak of Darkness
Slot[15] Level 26 : Super Jump
Slot[16] Level 28 : Dark Regeneration
Slot[17] Level 30 : Murky Cloud
Slot[18] Level 32 : Quill Throwing
Slot[19] Level 35 : Cloak of Fear
Slot[20] Level 38 : Ripper
Slot[21] Level 41 : Oppressive Gloom
Slot[22] Level 44 : Petrifying Gaze
Slot[23] Level 47 : Dark Blast
Slot[24] Level 49 : Tenebrous Tentacles

Thanks for the advice, Romance. Okay, here's an edited version to get Dark Regen earlier. What's the bonus that Build Up gives? I might swap it and Superjump around if I find that my damage doesn't need/benefit from that much of a boost yet.

Edit: Ack! I forgot about Acrobatics! Damn, what should I take out to make space for it? And I realise that I've taken every single power in the primary set except for taunt :P

[James_Bonnell]

Actually - I tried out TP on test and it was fine for me for now.

I've still got 3 respecs if I go the (probably smarter) status pro route to take care of immob and knockdown. I might pick up Hover later for air mobility, a TP rest break power, and "sorta" knockdown pro (little flip in the air rather than falling on your back).

I did figure out, thanks to good ol' Hero Planner, a way to:

5 slot Dark Embrace, Death Shroud, Spine Burst, Quills, Impale, and 6-slot Stamina, by moving around where I took the powers some.

Ripper's only 2-slotted at 27.

I really like the new build - now I just wish I'd already gotten Murky Cloud - electric freaks hurt without it. Maybe at 30 if I don't go Cloak of Fear.

Definitely a fun build. With Buildup and Spine Burst, I'm like a mini nova scrapper. Let Quills/Death Shroud get them to 2/3 or half, do Spine Burst - dead minions. Even +2s, and sometimes +3s. I like it. A lot.

Lookin' forward to adding Throw Spines to the mix.

[Romance]

@ James Bonnell

Glad that TP is working for you. I love Super Jump so much I end up taking it on all my characters. I despise status effects so I like all of my toons to have as much protection from them as possible. And Throw Spines is a lot of fun, with the fixed scaling toxic damage and Spine Burst you can 2 hit even level minion mobs. (sometimes Quills/DS does a little mop up work though.)

@ de absolutezero

It's a tricky to fit in pool powers as so many powers are essential to the DA scrapper. You want 9 of your DA powers, 3 Fitness powers and optionally Hasten. The honest truth is I don't know, it would probably be a loss from the spines section. Maybe Lunge or Barb Swipe, it depends on the attack cycle. I can't remember if it's Barb, Ripper, Barb, Impale or Lunge, Ripper, Lunge, Impale that works best. The Barb chain is more likely to have some gaps in it.

Sorry I'm not as much help here, I find the build so tight now myself that I'm only taking 1 or 2 EPPs. :\

[de_absolutezero]

Right. Thanks for the info anyway. Will probably take lunge out and replace it with acrobatics in the future. Barb Swipe just looks cool and the fast recharge rate/low end cost means i can take out enemies with only a sliver of health quickly without much end loss. (yeah, I could wait for quills/DS to finish em off but what if I miss? whoops) Besides, I like having lots of DoTs :)

Does adding resistance enhancements to Obsidian Shield help in resisting the hold magnitude or is it only for psi resistance? Ol' Winter Lord still held me when I had OS on :(

PS: Seems like when Barb Swipe criticals, it only applies to the last hit aka. "You finish off XX with YY lethal damage from your Barb Swipe." Is this true or is the critical hit an accumulation of all the DoTs ?

[Romance]

[ QUOTE ]

Does adding resistance enhancements to Obsidian Shield help in resisting the hold magnitude or is it only for psi resistance? Ol' Winter Lord still held me when I had OS on :(

[/ QUOTE ]

Just the psi res gets increased I'm afraid. But the magnitude of OS is of a decent level and had a boost before christmas time. OS is something you don't need to slot till the approach to the 40s. And despite what Invun players would have you believe psi attacks are still not that common.

[ QUOTE ]

PS: Seems like when Barb Swipe criticals, it only applies to the last hit aka. "You finish off XX with YY lethal damage from your Barb Swipe." Is this true or is the critical hit an accumulation of all the DoTs ?

[/ QUOTE ]

The critical hit with barb swipe works like all multiple hit attacks. It's a single extra hit that doubles the amount of damage you deal. I think if you look at it next time it crits and compare that to a normal attack from it that should show up. It's not as noticeable with lower damage multi-hit attacks.

[de_absolutezero]

Thanks for your help! Here's hoping that I can finally get an alt past lvl 15 :) Any plans to update the Dust Bunny with regard to Issue 3? Am curious to see your plans for a post-I3 Dust Bunny with the stacking armours, cowering fear etc and how it'd differ from your current one.

[Romance]

Yeah, I have plans to update to I3. I've been chatting in PM to Screwloose about his thoughts as a lvl 50 Spines Dust Bunny and I'm still collecting data.

My intital respec turned out a lot better than I thought it would so I have a build I can post. Right now I'm just looking at the EPPS and trying to weigh up the advantages of each. Again Screws provided a lot of helpful info there.

There will be a version 2.0 out soon. Probably tagged onto this one so I don't have to re-write all the information from the first guide again (well C&P it anyway)

[MasterMarbles]

Hiya!

First of all, I want to thank Romance for writing this whole thing up. :) Now if we could only feed her some obscure and rarely-disturbed corner (you know, the whole "Dust Bunny" thing... the etymology of... the... nevermind), so that she could write up her opinions on Spines/Dark after I3...

I'd like to ask everyone who's had experience with this for help.

I just got to level 28, and was going to pick up Acrobatics. Someone then came and told me that Cloak of Fear is REALLY good and useful and all that, and I started wondering.

Hmm...
:confused: it does debuff the mobs' accuracy...
:confused: but I'm still getting knocked down...
:confused: it would need 6-slots to be fully effective...
:confused: Quills + Death Shroud = mobs constantly attack me...

What do you think? Is CoF worth picking up now? At what level?

For your convenience, this is my build, with slotting up to level 40. I'm currently level 28, as yet untrained.
Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Barb Swipe /Acc
Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Level 2 : Spine Burst /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Level 4 : Death Shroud /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Level 6 : Combat Jumping /DefBuf
Level 8 : Build Up /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Level 10 : Obsidian Shield /EndRdx
Level 12 : Hurdle /Jump
Level 14 : Super Jump /Jump
Level 16 : Health /Heal
Level 18 : Quills /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Level 20 : Stamina /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Level 22 : Murky Cloud /EndRdx,DamRes
Level 24 : Impale /Acc,Dmg
Level 26 : Dark Regeneration /Acc,EndRdx,EndRdx
Level 28 : Acrobatics /EndRdx
Level 30 : Cloak Of Darkness /EndRdx,EndRdx,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf
Level 32 : Throw Spines /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Level 35 : Cloak Of Fear /EndRdx,EndRdx,Acc,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb
Level 38 : Ripper /Acc
Level 41 : Oppressive Gloom /Empty

Whaddaya think? Thanks in advance for any advice. :)

[Screwloose]

[ QUOTE ]

Hmm...
:confused: it does debuff the mobs' accuracy...
:confused: but I'm still getting knocked down...
:confused: it would need 6-slots to be fully effective...
:confused: Quills + Death Shroud = mobs constantly attack me...

[/ QUOTE ]

point 1. Yes it does.
Point 2. KD is annoying but not fatal and if they are Acc Debuffed the mobs are hitting you less therefore KDing you less.
Point 3. Like any power the more slots the better. I find it needs an End and I like to put an Acc in it to increase the chance it will hit on the first pulse. After that as many To Hit Debuff as you can spare, I went with 3.
Point 4. The mobs will be attacking you as much as they normally do, no faster.

[ QUOTE ]
What do you think? Is CoF worth picking up now? At what level?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that you need something on top of the Resistance shields, CoD and Dark Regen to make DA viable in high threat situations.

OpGloom is great for nullifying minions, but does nothing to help you vs LT's or Bosses.

CoF Debuffs everything.

Personally I went for both, because I like having more tools than I could possibly need and then trying them in different combinations in different situations.

[ QUOTE ]
For your convenience, this is my build, with slotting up to level 40. I'm currently level 28, as yet untrained.

Whaddaya think? Thanks in advance for any advice. :)

[/ QUOTE ]

Overall looks prett good, much the same as mine, couple of comments.

[ QUOTE ]
Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd consider an End reducer in DE. IMHO toggles that you have on all the time are good candicates for End reducers.

[ QUOTE ]
Level 2 : Spine Burst /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg

[/ QUOTE ]

I went for an extra Dam over the End reducer on this and Throw Spines. Generally I try to pick my fights so that I only need one burst of AE's then some pulses of DS and Quills to KO the minions in a pack of mobs and even with one End reducer the AE's use too much End to be useful vs a single target.

[ QUOTE ]
Level 30 : Cloak Of Darkness /EndRdx,EndRdx,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure the seconds End reducer is doing you a lot of good here, but it is a power that I leave on all the time, in fact I use to tell teams that if they could see me I wasn't ready to attack (% .

[ QUOTE ]
Level 41 : Oppressive Gloom /Empty

[/ QUOTE ]

Single Acc does well here, I went for a Diso duration as well just for kicks.

regards, Screwloose.
50 Spines Dark Armour Scrapper Justice.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

[Romance]

[ QUOTE ]

First of all, I want to thank Romance for writing this whole thing up. :) Now if we could only feed her some obscure and rarely-disturbed corner (you know, the whole "Dust Bunny" thing... the etymology of... the... nevermind), so that she could write up her opinions on Spines/Dark after I3...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm on it! :) Gathering hard numbers from various sources right now, and then double and triple checking them. But the maths for CoF confuse me still. :o

As soon as my coursework is finished I'll redraft this for I3. And it 'should' then stand for I4 because I'm not convinced that /DA will get any significant PvE changes.

Screws has covered most of the points I'd of put up. I'll just chime in and say I have Quills, DS, CoF and OG with my S/DA. And I switch powers for any given situation depending on my requirements.

[Constant_Motion]

Rom have you heard anything yet on the evaluation of DA's end use with end intensive primaries?

[Romance]

Absolutely nothing beyond 'We're looking into it'. It seems that Issue 4 is the priority for them atm. I'm going to wait till the end of this month and then gently ask if we could get a statement regarding the DA costs, rooted animations, sounds and status protection holes. Even if it's a 'We're not changing anything' that's better than not knowing.

[de_absolutezero]

I sure hope that they do something about the rooted animations and limited status protection. I like to toggle my toggles (err..) on and off during battles and the rooted animations make it tough for me to adapt to situations quickly. And the ack of knockdown and immob protection means that I have to run an extra 2 toggles. Sigh.

On a brighter note, Regina Mortis is now level 29 and she's extremely fun to play. She shines in large groups as that's where she does the most damage. My favourite moment so far was when I jumped into this room full of freaks, with buildup and a red candy, waited a couple of seconds, shot out spine burst to clear practically the entire room then pulled out a newspaper as the stragglers were mopped up. My team got a few chuckles out of that one, hehe.

I also realise that a good tanker backup is quite desirable. Quills+Death Shroud draws lots of aggro so much so hat my nickname is "the Aggro Magnet". With a good tank holding aggro, I can get to work quickly and easily.

Oh yeah, I'm still trying to decide what's good slotting for Dark Regen. Currently I have it at 2 recharge and 1 endrdx which allows me to pop it every few seconds. I think it has roughly the same recharge as impale. Considering putting in another slot but i'm not too sure. Another endrdx would be good whilst an accuracy would be good too. (still remember firing off DR in the middle of some vamps and missing every single one of them :o)

Anyway, looking forward to your update :)

[Romance]

I run triple End redux plus Conserve Power in my S/DAer and that's still not enough at times. Those times mostly being that horrible period where CP is down. I'm thinking I'll have to move more End redux into my build, despite having CP.

I'm finalising my own build decisions over this week as I've decided I'll actually finish of hitting 50 now instead of levelling my DM/DA. I should be done levelling by tomorrow (6.5 bubs left as I type this.) Then I'll write up the I3 version and I'll probably have to call it a day in S/DA guides, because the lower game will change a lot and I won't be able to comment on how those changes will effect play.

Plus I'm not convinced I'd want to play S/DA in PvP. It might be quite good fun in the group situations, but you deal so much damage to packed groups of things that people would be best advised killing you quickly or scattering. Hmm is that a place where Soul Transfer might come into it's own? :p

Anyway if I've not written something up by the end of next week, I'll need telling off.

[James_Bonnell]

Heh. I kinda like to think of myself as a "fear tanker".

But then, I have a dark/elec with Fearsome Stare, and a fire/axe tank.

My spine/dark definitely can't take the same beating as my fire/axe tank (except, of course, vs psi)... but I often find myself 'tanking', although not, per se, necessarily holding/managing agro.

[Tralien]

Nice guide. I just hit 29th with my Spines/DA scrapper. I find I don't use my AoE effects enough. I am usually solo, so I put in Teleport Foe in my teens. With recent changes to that power, I can pull pretty much all day and at great distances for single fights. When I do happen to grab the whole group, Cloak of Fear keeps the rest of them trembling until I can deal with them. Trying to get a respec successfully finished. I will try to incorporate more slots to AoE's. I currently have Lunge & Impale with 6 slots, so I can switch those slots to Spine Burst & Death Shroud. In order to get travel power Super Speed, I passed on Barb Swipe and subbed Flurry (same attack w/o the poison). Hopefully with some tweaks to powers, Endurance will not be my number one enemy.

[xerobulll]

Any spines/DA gurus out there care to update this for i4? Regardless of 'gimp' status, I am going to roll a S/DA scrapper for the AoE love, but would like to know what you guys think of the i4 changes effect some of the base builds.

Thanks

[Screwloose]

The only negative change for Spines DA in I4 was that CoF has been seriously neutered.

It now has a base hit chance of 50%, which means you need some serious +Acc on it to give you a decent chance of getting good coverage of the nearby mobs, which cuts down the slots available for reducing the End cost or enhancing it’s Fear and Debuff effects.

Since CoF was the only thing that gave DA scrappers any sort of parity with other secondaries at the higher levels I don’t really see anything in the powerset that makes up for it.

In a way I feel I was better off pre I3 when even tho the Res shield didn’t stack I could at least get a solid reliable Acc debuff on Bosses and I could neutralise minions with OpGloom. Now I would have sub par resistances that cost me a lot of End and the choice of running a high End toggle that gives me a lower Debuff (less slots of Debuff Enh) not as dependably.

I don’t disagree with the Dev’s assessment that Fear had been improved beyond it’s intended strength and that Cloak of Fear might have therefore been significantly stronger than intended, but since it was pretty much the only thing keeping DA’s afloat they haven’t left us with much.

Other changes were all buffs and included in such a way that they were added to powers that you would pretty much take any way. Ob Shield got res to Fear. Clock of Darkness got res to –Perception and Immobilise. Murky Cloud got res to End drain.

Also Statesman’s comments after the Scrapper testing strongly suggest that Scrappers have more balancing to look forward to, so I suspect that some people are holding off doing major rewrites of guides until we see a little more of what that might be about.

Regards, Screwloose.
“I am not young enough to know everything.”

[xerobulll]

Thanks, Screwloose. Exactly what I needed to know. And I was hoping that you would answer personally- your responses are always informative.

Thanks again,
Jeremiah Finn, Virtue Server, Hero Dawn Supergroup

[TinyAssassin]

I have a level 15 Spines/DA scrap and I was just wondering if he could still be successful in I5 with all the changes.

[Captain_Amazing_NA]

Interesting thread. I have a 20 S/DA and Issue 5's endurance reduction alone is very nice. The role of the AoE scrapper is best in teams; soloing is a bit harder and tad more tedious. Street hunting or hunt missions seem better, due to the number of mobs standing on street corners. I highly recommend 6-slotting Death Shroud (1 end reducer, 1 accuracy, 4 damage) and Quills (same enhancing); this is also my formula for my burn tanker's Blazing Aura. Spine Burst is all damage (6). I only use Lunge and Impale for utility attacks so they have like an accuracy and some damage between them.

The most important thing about playing this build is: patience! You do a lot of standing there piling on the DPS on mobs, so be patient! LOL

- Captain Amazing

[Screwloose]

Spines DA is still going to be good in the I5-verse.

In fact DA got nerfed least of all the Scrapper Secondaries, and the things that got changed most you won't have had access to at level 15 so you will probably never notice.

The increase in damage for Scrappers makes Spines DA's AE damage even more impressive. And the decrease of End costs makes Spines DA a much more comfortable combo to play.

If you are having fun then I would suggest continuing. Keep an eye on the Scrapper forums for info on how people are handling DA, there have been a lot of threads about it over the last 2 weeks.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

[SenorMortgage]

Can any of you guys post your I5 build. I'm still confused as to how to build one and how/when to slot it.

[Screwloose]

Check my Spines Guide (second post of the scrapper gudies and Faqs thread), it has my build at the end. Check any thread in the Scrapper forum regarding Dark Armour, slotting for Spines DA is no different than any other DA.

I haven't changed anything for I5, mostly just because I am lazy, and IMHO DA needs less changes due to I5 than any other powerset. Spines is exactly the same.

DA Changes in brief.

Only important changes to DA IMHO are to Cloak of Darkness and Cloak of Fear.

CoD becomes not a great return for slots in I5. The power is still not bad but a Def Enh gets you 0.65% additional Def, so not a high priority for slots.

CoF has been nerfed a couple of times. As of I5 it only Cowers minions, it hits a level+0 mob 50% of the time and the To Hit debuff was reduced (from 25% to 10%). IMHO it is line ball as to whether it is worth the End cost to run and requires 3 Acc and a Fear Enh to give a 90% Cower vs level+1 mobs, leaving you with two slots to Enh the To Hit debuff or cut the sizeable End cost. If you are not prepared to 6 slot it or if you run Op Gloom, which will stun all the minions anyway, then don't take it.

Changes which are interesting but wouldn't affect your choice of powers or slotting.

All toggles can be run simultaneously.
Dark Embrace gives Toxic resist.
CoD gives Immobilise resist and increased Perception vs Stealth powers.
Ob Shield protects from Fear.
Murk Cloud protects from End Drain, this is actually quite nice.
Soul Transfer got a couple of improvements, but not enough to change anyones mind who was or wasn't going to take a Self Rez power.

I've just about got an I5 compliant DA overview ready to go, might be up sometime today.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

[Vulgar_Kid]

Man I like this build thanks Romance I am doin the Hasten I just like to kill stuff fast I just got my guy to lvl 10 he works great :p :D

[FrankyMorales]

[ QUOTE ]

Also I'm swinging between Impale and Ripper as the better Single Target attack. I think the knockdown, the cone and the ability to hit 4 mobs at once edges out the range on Impale. Especially now that we have the ability to hit runners and ranged attacks in the EPPs.

(I really should check this more often but it's such a rare build that people don't post much :p)

[/ QUOTE ]

what is EPPs?

[Screwloose]

[ QUOTE ]
what is EPPs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Epic Power Pools, got changed to Anciliary Power Pools after people complained that the powers in them weren't Epic enough.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

[masterpiece]

So has anyone assembled a spines/DA build for issue 7? Granted I've parked mine due to end issues but looking to bring out of retirement for some aoe love....

[Screwloose]

Not really.

Spines hasn't changed hardly at all so any Spines guide will give you decent ideas on Spines. I'm currently polishing an I7 Spines overview, but I've not changed much from my I1 version.

The Gamemasters I7 DM DA guide will give you some decent up to date info on DA. I was going to redo my DA overview but I wouldn't be saying much different to what the Gammaster says.

And Red Tomaxs site (http://www.nofuture.org.uk/coh/powers/) will give you some good I7 numbers on powers.

regards, Screwloose.
"I'm not young enough to know everything."