5 Best Solo Controller Builds [Archive]

Pilcrow

09-22-2004, 12:58 PM

FIRE/KINETICS CONTROLLER

CONTROLS: 8 of 9 possibles w/6 AEs
BUFFS/DeBUFFS: 9 of 11 possibles w/4 AEs
OFFENSE: 0 of 0 possibles w/0 AEs
OTHER: 3
NOTES: The MOST Controller-y controller. No damage focused attacks at all, but Fire's Side effect of DoT will make pre-32 soloing do-able. Post-32, your pet makes soloing a real possibility, and the Kinetics keeps them jumping for you.
<ul type="square">
lvl 1a) Ring of Fire CONTROL:ROOT (single,immob)
lvl 1b) Transfusion (de)BUFF:HEAL (ae,debuff)
lvl 2) Char CONTROL:MEZ (single,hold)
lvl 4) Fire Cages CONTROL:ROOT (ae,immob)
lvl 6) Smoke (de)BUFF:DEBUFF (ae,acc)
lvl 8) Hot Feet CONTROL:ROOT (ae,immob)
lvl 10) [pool] Hasten (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,speed)
lvl 12) Flash Fire CONTROL:ROOT (ae,disorient)
lvl 14) [pool] Super Speed MOVE (self,run)
lvl 16) Siphon Power (de)BUFF:BUFF (ae,debuff)
lvl 18) Cinders CONTROL:MEZ (ae,hold)
lvl 20) Speed Boost (de)BUFF:BUFF (single,speed)
lvl 22) [pool] Hurdle MOVE (self,jump)
lvl 24) [pool] Health (de)BUFF:HEAL (self,hp)
lvl 26) Bonfire CONTROL:KNOCK (ae,damage)
lvl 28) Transferrence (de)BUFF:BUFF (single,debuff)
lvl 30) [pool] Stamina (de)BUFF:HEAL (self,end)
lvl 32) Fire Imps CONTROL:PET (ae,damage)
lvl 35) Increase Density DEF (single,mez)
lvl 38) Fulcrum Shift (de)BUFF:BUFF (ae,debuff)
Not Taken) Inertial Reduction (de)BUFF:BUFF (ae,jump)
Not Taken) Repel CONTROL:KNOCK (single,damage)
Not Taken) Siphon Speed (de)BUFF:DEBUFF (single,buff)

[/list]

Pilcrow

09-22-2004, 12:58 PM

ILLUSION/RADIATION CONTROLLER

CONTROLS: 8 of 9 possibles w/6 AEs
BUFFS/DeBUFFS: 7 of 9 possibles w/2 AEs
OFFENSE: 3 of 4 possibles w/2 AEs
OTHER: 2
NOTES: The "solo controller" according to the press. Why, because they get a few damage focused attacks and an extra pet. They trade a lot of control for those things though. Still they're easier to solo pre-32 and post-32 they're good.
<ul type="square">
lvl 1a) Spectral Wounds OFFENSE:DAMAGE (single,)
lvl 1b) Radiation Emission (de)BUFF:HEAL (ae,hp)
lvl 2) Blind CONTROL:MEZ (single,hold)
lvl 4) Flash CONTROL:MEZ (ae,hold)
lvl 6) Deceive CONTROL:STATUS (single,confused)
lvl 8) Radiation Infection OFFENSE:DAMAGE (ae,debuff)
lvl 10) [pool] Hover (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,move)
lvl 12) Group Invisibility (de)BUFF:BUFF (ae,def(invis))
lvl 14) [pool] Fly MOVE (self,fly)
lvl 16) Enervating Field OFFENSE:DAMAGE (ae,debuff)
lvl 18) Phantom Army CONTROL:PET (ae,tank)
lvl 20) Lingering Radiation CONTROL:SLOW (ae,speed)
lvl 22) [pool] Swift MOVE (self,run)
lvl 24) [pool] Health (de)BUFF:HEAL (self,hp)
lvl 26) Acclerate Metabolism (de)BUFF:BUFF (single,speed)
lvl 28) Choking Cloud CONTROL:MEZ (ae,hold)
lvl 30) [pool] Stamina (de)BUFF:HEAL (self,end)
lvl 32) Phantasm CONTROL:PET (ae,damage)
lvl 35) [pool] Hasten (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,speed)
lvl 38) EM Pulse CONTROL:MEZ (ae,hold)
Not Taken) Superior Invisibility (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,def(invis))
Not Taken) Spectral Terror CONTROL:STATUS (ae,fear)
Not Taken) Mutation (de)BUFF:HEAL (single,rez)
Not Taken) Fallout OFFENSE:DAMAGE (ae,)
[/list]

EDIT: After input found below trading ACCELERATE METABOLISM for SPECTRAL TERROR. WHY? Buff to Pets post-32 is strong, meanwhile TERROR is still set to scatter mobs instead of cower them. If the MC changes trickle down to the illusion set, prepare to make a hard choice!

Pilcrow

09-22-2004, 12:58 PM

DARK/PSYCHIC DEFENDER

CONTROLS: 8 of 9 possibles w/3 AEs
BUFFS/DeBUFFS: 5 of 7 possibles w/2 AEs
OFFENSE: 4 of 4 possibles w/1 AEs
OTHER: 3
NOTES: THIS IS NOT A CONTROLLER! Really? Why? Because the manual says so? This build has as many controls available as the first two builds AND has a pet. Even mind control doesn't get a pet! Plus the build has a very controller-like feel. Bad news, this pet ain't like the controller pets, soloing gets not so much easier after 32. This is more the slow and steady soloer, where the other two start of really slow and sprint at the end.
<ul type="square">
lvl 1a) Twilight Grasp (de)BUFF:HEAL (ae,debuff)
lvl 1b) Mental Blast OFFENSE:DAMAGE (single,)
lvl 2) Subdue CONTROL:ROOT (single,immob)
lvl 4) Psionic Lance OFFENSE:DAMAGE (single,)
lvl 6) Tar Patch CONTROL:SLOW (ae,)
lvl 8) [pool] Hasten (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,speed)
lvl 10) Psychic Scream OFFENSE:DAMAGE (cone,)
lvl 12) [pool] Hurdle MOVE (self,jump)
lvl 14) [pool] Super Speed MOVE (self,run)
lvl 16) [pool] Health (de)BUFF:HEAL (self,hp)
lvl 18) Petrifying Gaze CONTROL:MEZ (single,hold)
lvl 20) [pool] Stamina (de)BUFF:HEAL (self,end)
lvl 22) Will Domination HOLD (single,sleep)
lvl 24) Telekenetic Blast CONTROL:KNOCK (single,damage)
lvl 26) Darkest Night (de)BUFF:DEBUFF (ae,acc/dmg)
lvl 28) Psionic Tornado CONTROL:KNOCK (ae,damage)
lvl 30) Fearsome Stare CONTROL:STATUS (cone,fear)
lvl 32) Dark Servant CONTROL:PET (ae,damage)
lvl 35) Scramble Thoughts CONTROL:ROOT (single,immob)
lvl 38) Psychic Wail OFFENSE:DAMAGE (ae,)
Not Taken) Shadow Fall (de)BUFF:BUFF (ae,def(invis))
Not Taken) Howling Twilight (de)BUFF:HEAL (single,rez)
Not Taken) Black Hole CONTROL:MEZ (ae,phase)

[/list]

Pilcrow

09-22-2004, 12:58 PM

ICE/ICE BLASTER

CONTROLS: 7 of 7 possibles w/3 AEs
BUFFS/DeBUFFS: 5 of 5 possibles w/0 AEs
OFFENSE: 7 of 9 possibles w/2 AEs
OTHER: 1
NOTES: A BLASTER! Now I know you've lost it! Really? We downshift from 8 CONTROL powers to 7 and look what we get in return: 7 damage focused powers. AND we get a pet (at level 38).
<ul type="square">
lvl 1a) Ice Blast OFFENSE:DAMAGE (single,)
lvl 1b) Chilblain CONTROL:ROOT (single,immob)
lvl 2) Frost Breath OFFENSE:DAMAGE (cone,slow)
lvl 4) Ice Bolt OFFENSE:DAMAGE (single,slow)
lvl 6) [pool] Hover (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,move)
lvl 8) [pool] Stealth (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,def(invis))
lvl 10) Chilling Embrace CONTROL:SLOW (ae,)
lvl 12) Ice Storm OFFENSE:DAMAGE (ae,slow)
lvl 14) [pool] Fly MOVE (self,fly)
lvl 16) Aim (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,acc/dmg)
lvl 18) Bitter Ice Blast OFFENSE:DAMAGE (single,slow)
lvl 20) [pool] Hasten (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,speed)
lvl 22) Build Up (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,dmg)
lvl 24) Ice Patch CONTROL:KNOCK (ae,)
lvl 26) Bitter Freeze ray OFFENSE:DAMAGE (single,slow)
lvl 28) Shiver CONTROL:SLOW (cone,)
lvl 30) Freeze Ray CONTROL:MEZ (single,hold)
lvl 32) Blizzard OFFENSE:DAMAGE (ae,slow)
lvl 35) Freezing Touch CONTROL:MEZ (single,hold)
lvl 38) Frozen Aura CONTROL:MEZ (ae,hold)
Not Taken) Frozen Fists OFFENSE:DAMAGE (single,melee)
Not Taken) FrozenSword OFFENSE:DAMAGE (single,melee)

[/list]

Pilcrow

09-22-2004, 12:59 PM

ICE/DEV BLASTER

CONTROLS: 5 of 5 possibles w/3 AEs
BUFFS/DeBUFFS: 7 of 7 possibles w/1 AEs
OFFENSE: 6 of 9 possibles w/2 AEs
OTHER: 2
NOTES: I knew it! Another blaster! This one is the mirror image of the ICE/ICE. We traded 2 controls for 2 buffs. Both have the same number of "support" powers. This one is just heavier in the Controller Secondary.
<ul type="square">
lvl 1a) Ice Bolt OFFENSE:DAMAGE (single,slow)
lvl 1b) Web Grenade CONTROL:ROOT (single,immob)
lvl 2) Frost Breath OFFENSE:DAMAGE (cone,slow)
lvl 4) Caltrops CONTROL:SLOW (ae,)
lvl 6) [pool] Hurdle MOVE (self,jump)
lvl 8) Freeze Ray CONTROL:MEZ (single,hold)
lvl 10) [pool] Hasten (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,speed)
lvl 12) Ice Storm OFFENSE:DAMAGE (ae,slow)
lvl 14) [pool] Super Speed MOVE (self,run)
lvl 16) [pool] Health (de)BUFF:HEAL (self,hp)
lvl 18) Bitter Ice Blast OFFENSE:DAMAGE (single,slow)
lvl 20) Cloaking Device (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,def(invis))
lvl 22) [pool] Stamina (de)BUFF:HEAL (self,end)
lvl 24) Targeting Drone (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,acc)
lvl 26) Bitter Freeze ray OFFENSE:DAMAGE (single,slow)
lvl 28) Smoke Grenade (de)BUFF:DEBUFF (ae,acc)
lvl 30) Aim (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,acc/dmg)
lvl 32) Blizzard OFFENSE:DAMAGE (ae,slow)
lvl 35) [pool] Whirlwind CONTROL:KNOCK (ae,)
lvl 38) Auto Turret CONTROL:PET (ae,dmg)
Not Taken) Ice Blast OFFENSE:DAMAGE (single,)
Not Taken) Trip Mine OFFENSE:DAMAGE (ae,)
Not Taken) Time Bomb OFFENSE:DAMAGE (ae,)

[/list]

EDIT: Just wanted to say about this build, look at all the offense we left on the table for control. Trip Mine is a Mainstay of the */DEV set and Ice Blast ain't bad. Now that we can level to 50 and get 4 more power slots - this set has lots of depth left for you to play with. Most other builds would have to go to the pools after 40. If you're in for the long haul, give this one special consideration.

Pilcrow

09-22-2004, 12:59 PM

Philosophy

The builds themselves are meant to be viewed in totem rather than as individual builds, with each person kind of picking their favorite part of the spectrum from most controller-y to least. FIRE/RAD is a good build, so is ILL/KIN. The idea is to expose you to the best powersets, (and some of their quirks) for Solo Controlling. These are meant to be tweaked for individual taste. For example, I put hasten really late in one build to make it clear that you "could" do that. As you can see from the other builds I put up, I usually like it earlier.

What I hope people get out of the FAQ is that, regardless of the manual's gladhanding that controllers are the only ones who get to control, control is found throughout the ATs (with the possible exception of Scrappers). So, for those that want to solo and like to control, there are ways to make it happen. You can be a happy, rapidly advancing Pre-32 Solo Controller, if you're willing to ignore the label that will appear next to your name and look at the actual powers.

The FAQ is more about educating people about things they don't know than about making the perfect ILL/RAD or FIRE/KIN build (there are other posts for that). It's about giving you a running start on your build, sure. But most of all about looking both inside and outside the Controller AT to find a really good Controller to Solo with.

Tweaking

For starters, you might want to collect powers in different orders. I like to get Hasten and Stamina early on and took some of my lower level primary/secondary powers later to make that happen.

Solo-able, not solo
If you truly intend to solo, these builds are great. But if you just want to be soloable but still attractive to groups, you might want to look at a couple of things.
<ul type="square"> #1) The Not Taken powers: These may be less useful solo, but many are a big draw in a group. Good example: Rez powers. You can't rez yourself, but teams love a person who can Rez.
#2) Supplement via pool powers: Sometimes the pool powers are BETTER than the primary/secondary. A good example of this for CONTROLLER/DEFENDER types is the Leadership Pool. Why buy Shadow Fall or Group Invisibility when you can get the defense buff from the leadership pool. Or get both for a double defense buff on your team. This is a BAD idea for the two Blaster builds - who will suffer from weaker leadership (Defenders get 10% buff, Controller 8%, others 5%). Perhaps the medicine pool will work better for Blaster types since it gives you the missing HEAL and REZ that so many teams want in their "support" characters.
#3) Consider Switching Secondaries: Rad and Kin are the best two for Pet folk, but why not a Fire/rad. Just avoid empathy - nothing good for a control minded person there.
[/list]

Other Tweaks
<ul type="square"> #1) I want MORE control: Want to trade Hasten/Stamina for even MORE control. Don't forget the two fear powers in the Presence Pool! Whirlwind and Air superiority give you some extra KNOCK powers, too.
#2) DEFENSE! DEFENSE! DEFENSE!: I tried to gice all the builds a little defense. Hasten and Health help, of course, as do stealth powers and accuracy deBuffs. But if you need more, trade some powers for any of the following from the shared pools: Hover, Combat Jumping, Tough, Weave, Acrobatics and Stealth. For the first three builds remember that the leadership buffs apply to you, too. So Manuvers is a doubly good choice.
[/list]

One Final Note

Like control, but also like melee? Look at an Ice/Ice tanker. Not terribly solo-able, but it might fit your character concept.

Brass_Munkee

09-22-2004, 01:44 PM

I disagree with some of your power choices for soloability, I'll name the build and explain why.

ILL/RAD controller

For one, opting for group invis over superior invis in a solo build doesn't make sense to me. I do not know the specific numbers on the Defense bonus from each, but i would assume superior invis would be much more useful on a solo level. Second Going for the hover-Fly path in a pet controller build is do-able, but pet builds are always dramatically better with hasten. Also i noticed Accelerate Metabolism is missing. While it is not as good as Stamina in end recovery, and hasten beats it by far in recharge reduction, Acc Metab gives a decent bonus to both. You can increase the effectiveness of both stamina and hasten with one power, always felt that wasa pretty good deal. Not to mention, 6 slotted, the difference is quite noticable. Especially when you are trying to pump out as many pets as you can.

ICE/DEV blaster

Already, the absence of trip mine, the second most prized posession of the device set, already hinders this builds soloability. Especially picking up Auto Turret. Even 6 slotted with dmg SOs, auto turret isn't that useful compared to trip mine. Trip Mine is a massive AE attack that any device build, no matter what style yur going for, should pick up.

Dark/Psy Defender

While i don't doubt their control potential, I heavily doubt their soloability. Psy blast is hands down the worse defender secondary, and i can vouch for that as i play a defender with a psy secondary. It does absolute minimal damage. And when i make that statement i don't look at per hit, i look at damage per second (DPS). Reason why DPS is so horrible is for the fact that everything in the psy blasts set takes a really long time to execute, all really long recharges, and cost alot of endurance. While the powerset offers several control type powers, none are effective enough to consider a control power, with the exception of scramble thoughts. That is still however, single target mez, with again minimal dmg. This build could probably group well with the control powers it has, however soloing would be painfully slow, and not worth it at all. It could be my huge bias against psy blasts, but in all honesty, the powerset is horrible, I wish I never picked it.

Pilcrow

09-22-2004, 02:40 PM

Thanks for the input. Some good points. Here are my replies:
[ QUOTE ]
ILL/RAD controller

For one, opting for group invis over superior invis in a solo build doesn't make sense to me. I do not know the specific numbers on the Defense bonus from each, but i would assume superior invis would be much more useful on a solo level.

[/ QUOTE ]
They both offer the same defense numbers. Superior invisibility has a longer "distance" to it, which means you're hard to detect, but once detected you are equally shielded.

I choose Group Invisibility over Superior Invisibility because you CANNOT USE ANY POWERS EXCEPT THOSE THAT EFFECT YOURELF on Superior Invisibility. Meanwhile Group Invisibility offers you defense WHILE YOU ATTACK.

Hope that clarifies why I chose as I did, but let me know if you think I have a fact wrong.

[ QUOTE ]
Second Going for the hover-Fly path in a pet controller build is do-able, but pet builds are always dramatically better with hasten.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hasten is in the build

[ QUOTE ]
Also i noticed Accelerate Metabolism is missing. While it is not as good as Stamina in end recovery, and hasten beats it by far in recharge reduction, Acc Metab gives a decent bonus to both. You can increase the effectiveness of both stamina and hasten with one power, always felt that wasa pretty good deal. Not to mention, 6 slotted, the difference is quite noticable. Especially when you are trying to pump out as many pets as you can.

[/ QUOTE ]

You make a good case for trading Hover for Acc Metabolism given that pets are on the way. I felt we had shown a "defenseless" Controller with the FIRE build and that it was important to show a Controller with some defense. Your build is covered in my tweaks page, but I see why you prefer it

[ QUOTE ]
ICE/DEV blaster

Already, the absence of trip mine, the second most prized posession of the device set, already hinders this builds soloability. Especially picking up Auto Turret. Even 6 slotted with dmg SOs, auto turret isn't that useful compared to trip mine. Trip Mine is a massive AE attack that any device build, no matter what style yur going for, should pick up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Prized by people who primarily want to do damage, this is a control focused build. I dropped trip mine because Smoke Grenade is now much less effective, so dropping trip mines is much more dangerous. Still, with cloaking device you have a good tactic available in trip mines. Users might want to trade in AIM to free up a slot for trip mine, but surrendering the "pet" isn't a good option in a control focused build.

[ QUOTE ]
Dark/Psy Defender

While i don't doubt their control potential, I heavily doubt their soloability. Psy blast is hands down the worse defender secondary, and i can vouch for that as i play a defender with a psy secondary. It does absolute minimal damage. And when i make that statement i don't look at per hit, i look at damage per second (DPS). Reason why DPS is so horrible is for the fact that everything in the psy blasts set takes a really long time to execute, all really long recharges, and cost alot of endurance. While the powerset offers several control type powers, none are effective enough to consider a control power, with the exception of scramble thoughts. That is still however, single target mez, with again minimal dmg. This build could probably group well with the control powers it has, however soloing would be painfully slow, and not worth it at all. It could be my huge bias against psy blasts, but in all honesty, the powerset is horrible, I wish I never picked it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, nice to see a vet's opinion on the set. Perhaps the "in the field" issues like animation times gimp it. Still there is a strong set in the controller community that thinks of their character as a MENTALIST. Here's a way to scratch that itch and get some damage. Even gimped defender damage is HEAVEN to a Controller - just as any non-controller would kill for any of the Controller Pets, even Jack Frost.

At first thought, the obvious alternative is Dark/Dark. That secondary has 2 ROOTs and 1 KNOCK. Meanwhile MENTAL has 1 HOLD, 2 ROOTs and 2 KNOCKs. That's 2 CONTROLS you're throwing away to get away from PSYCHIC, which gives you 1 LESS CONTROL than the ICE/ICE Blaster. So, if you think PSYCHIC stinks for damage reasons, why not just make the leap to ICE/ICE Blaster instead of picking up DARK/DARK?

Again, the goal here isn't to maximize damage. It's to maximize control while offering enough damage to solo. If you want to do more damage, but still control - move towards the blaster end of the spectrum, and maybe even dump a control or two for a few more offenses.

But the focus of this list is to give people who like CONTROL powers the ability to CONTROL a lot, while being better able to solo than most CONTROLLER AT builds are able to.

Not UBER soloers. UBER controllers, who can solo well.

Jade_Dragon

09-22-2004, 04:17 PM

I gotta post my "mini-Scrapper" Controller with the attacks from the Power Pool. But until I get him to at least level 30, I don't feel I have anything definate to contribute.

I like your suggestions, though. I wish I'd known you could attack out of Group Invisibility. I almost got it, but went with Superior Invisibility instead. Now I regret that I did.

Pilcrow

09-22-2004, 06:21 PM

(Got this feedback in another forum)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Funny you should ask, I added this guide today: 5 best Solo Controller builds (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1399956&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#1399956)

Let me know what you think.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought your Ill/Rad build was...well...kind of bizarre. Hasten appears far later in the build than it ought to, IMO, particularly for solo purposes. The omission of Accelerate Metabolism strikes me as quite peculiar to say the least. In fact, if you don't use AM, I'd go with Storm instead ( I see AM as one of the two major advantages of rad over that set, the other being EMP).

One other note: You list radiation infection as an offense: damage ability. I suppose this is on the basis of debuffing defense. Still this seems like an odd classification.

Just my 2 inf.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your input.

I'm really suprised at the reactions I got. I expected to get haymakered for having non-controller ATs in the list, and instead people are focuses on the details about the builds. Pleasant suprise that.

The builds themselves are meant to be viewed in totem rather than as individual builds, with each person kind of picking their favorite part of the spectrum from most controller-y to least. As I noted in the addendum, these are meant to be tweaked for individual taste. So I put hasten really late in one build to make it clear that you "could" do that. As you can see from the other builds I put up, I usually like it earlier.

What I hope people get out of the FAQ is that, regardless of the manual's gladhanding that controllers are the only ones who get to control, control is found throughout the ATs (with the possible exception of Scrappers). So, for those that want to solo and prefer control, there are ways to make it happen. You can be a happy, rapidly advancing Pre-32 Solo Controller, if you're willing to ignore the label that will appear next to your name and look at the actual powers.

Anyhow, some people really like Accelerate Metabolism, others really like Trip Mine, some feel they don't need Hasten or Stimina. The addendum was meant to show these alternatives if people want to use them.

The FAQ is more about educating people about things they don't know than about making the perfect ILL/RAD or FIRE/KIN build (there are other posts for that). It's about making sure people know about to Group vs. Superior Invisibility even solo, how leadership is good for DEF/CONT and bad for Blasters, etc. But most of all about looking outside the Controller AT to find a really good Controller to Solo with.

Hopefully as I level these toons up I'll learn more and update the FAQ. (Lord knows it will have scrolled off these boards by then.)

(off to post a copy of this in the FAQ).

Pilcrow

09-22-2004, 06:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like your suggestions, though. I wish I'd known you could attack out of Group Invisibility. I almost got it, but went with Superior Invisibility instead. Now I regret that I did.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah....Respec. It will be great once they finish it. :)

Bokon

09-23-2004, 12:37 PM

I just have one suggestion with your illusion build. Group invisibility is a great stealth power but the other thing it has is a substantial defense. One ++ recharge SO plus perma-hasten gives you perma-invisibility. If you were to use the extra five slots as defense SO's that would be 15% def. That plus the 5% def bonus from hasten is 20% def total just from those two. Add that to hover with 1 def so and you get 26% defense. Minions equal to your level have a 50% chance to hit. With a 26% def you cut your chances of getting hit in more than half.

Pans_Folley

09-26-2004, 04:34 AM

I have gone through the books (manual & Prima Game Guide) and I have been trying different ideas. I like this one with the Fire/Kin controller. One questions, why the super speed powers and not the fly powers? It makes him harder to control and gives very little ability for roof top missions until Hurdle at lvl 22? Thanks for the insight !

PS, Ice/Ice is working great ! I had already used the exact same setup. "Great minds think alike !" :cool:

Crimson_Glow

09-26-2004, 04:53 AM

you forgot fire/rad, which many would say is the top combo, and as a fire/rad I can tell you I can still solo through anything. 2 debuffs, a slow, smoke, three aoe holds (ff+fc is aoe hold), accel metab, group heal for imps etc etc

Pilcrow

09-26-2004, 03:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have gone through the books (manual & Prima Game Guide) and I have been trying different ideas. I like this one with the Fire/Kin controller. One questions, why the super speed powers and not the fly powers? It makes him harder to control and gives very little ability for roof top missions until Hurdle at lvl 22? Thanks for the insight !

PS, Ice/Ice is working great ! I had already used the exact same setup. "Great minds think alike !" :cool:

[/ QUOTE ]

I went with SS as the movement power because I had to choose between getting hasten/super speed and hover/fly. Fire and rad have so much good stuff, you hate to surrender more than the minimum possible slots to the shared pools.

If you're going all the way to 50 you get 3-4 more power slots (reports differ and I don't havea post 40 guy yet), so by all means do both in that case.

Pilcrow

09-26-2004, 03:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you forgot fire/rad, which many would say is the top combo, and as a fire/rad I can tell you I can still solo through anything. 2 debuffs, a slow, smoke, three aoe holds (ff+fc is aoe hold), accel metab, group heal for imps etc etc

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't forget it, I simply put it in the addendum. Fire/rad and ill/kin are both good builds as well. :)

Pitho

09-26-2004, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dark/Psy Defender

While i don't doubt their control potential, I heavily doubt their soloability. Psy blast is hands down the worse defender secondary, and i can vouch for that as i play a defender with a psy secondary. It does absolute minimal damage. And when i make that statement i don't look at per hit, i look at damage per second (DPS). Reason why DPS is so horrible is for the fact that everything in the psy blasts set takes a really long time to execute, all really long recharges, and cost alot of endurance. While the powerset offers several control type powers, none are effective enough to consider a control power, with the exception of scramble thoughts. That is still however, single target mez, with again minimal dmg. This build could probably group well with the control powers it has, however soloing would be painfully slow, and not worth it at all. It could be my huge bias against psy blasts, but in all honesty, the powerset is horrible, I wish I never picked it.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the early psy blasts that are the slow ones. Telekinetic blast, and will domination are quick attacks. Psy scream is pretty fast, and does decent damage with a really nice cone. Mental blast, subdue, and psi lance, the first three attacks, are slow, so psi can't get a fast single target until level 16...
Psi tornado gets mixed reviews, but I'm going to get it.

On a side note, the dark pet should be a great thing. It's a control pet, kinda like the gravity singularity. Except.....it gets a sort of AoE control too. Tenebrous tentacles roots things, and each of them can cast darkest night which debuffs damage and accuracy on enemies. They can also heal, and hold. Mostly control, with some minor damage (I won't be able to see the actual damage they do for a bit, but it can't hurt.). Mainly it frees up the dark miasma from needing to use the defender powers as much, and lets them use more blasts (and focus control anywhere that it's lacking).

ProcessedMeatMan

09-26-2004, 04:24 PM

ummm... i thought this was about "controllers"

Try soloing with a Grav/Rad... that should be in the top 5 for sure.

Pilcrow

09-26-2004, 05:57 PM

Echelon_NA

09-26-2004, 06:47 PM

I've restarted my controller a few times now. I just can't seem to get the right balance of powers. I think I'll go set myself with illusion/kinetics. Maybe illusion/radiation. Nah, Illusion/kinetics. I think.

Pilcrow

09-26-2004, 10:21 PM

I have an illusion kinetics I really like, but he duos a lot. Rad draws less aggro, which is why I gave it to the less "controll-y" illusionist in my samples.

Still, Kinetics is just so much fun and will serve you well. Good luck.

Doc_Phantom

09-26-2004, 10:32 PM

OP: While I have seen your posts about the meaning of the post versus the actual builds, I would like to stress again... for anyone reading this for starting a new hero... do not follow the order of powers obtained in the examples. Consult the proper boards and look for advice on power ordering.

Anyways... in doing something like this again, my suggestion would be to focus more on the attributes, theory, and key powers, but only if you know those builds well. You will open yourself up for less friction.

Other than that, I could argue some other builds that should be included. First one that comes to mind is fire/ice/provoke tank, as it's built for soloability while controlling the mobs. Another option would be an inv/ice tank, which using invincibility and ice patch is about as much control as a group could ask for... although slow in the solo dept. I guess it all depends on what you consider control. An almost invincible tank with mobs stuck to him like glue is pretty solid control... just because hitting you doesn't mean much. Anyways... I am off on a tangent.

Pilcrow

09-27-2004, 03:44 AM

Funny you should mention that. I've been working this up!

Let's expand this as appropriate, the best Non-Controller AT Contollers (basics only)

CONTENDER (Controlling Defender)

Dark/Psychic
See above

Storm/Dark
Someone reminded me of storm today. It is very knock heavy, but there's a lot of them.
<ul type="square"> Must Haves, Storm: Gale (Cone, Knock), Snow Storm (AE, Slow), Steamy Mist (AE, Stealth), Freezing Rain (AE, SLOW/KNOCK), Hurricane (PBAE, Knock), Thunder Clap (PBAE, Disorient), Tornado (AE,Knock), Lightning Storm (AE, Knock/Fear)
Must Haves, Dark: Dark Pit (AE, Disorient), Tentacles (Cone, Immobilize), Torrent (Cone, Knock)
Don't Forget: Hasten, [Travel Power], Health, Hurdle, Stamina
Slots Left: 4, so you could get Hover & Fly and leave 3 slots for Dark Blasts to round out the build for soloing or get super-speed and take a 4th offense
Results: 10 controls, 2 MEZ, 1 ROOT, 2 SLOW, 5 KNOCK, 7 AE, 3 CONE +3-4 offense
Analysis: Too many knocks to be the BEST contender, but very, very nice
[/list]

CONTRASTER (Controlling Blaster)

Ice/Ice Blaster
See Above

Ice/Dev Blaster
See above

CONTRANKER (Controlling Tanker)
Ice/Ice Tanker
<ul type="square"> Must Haves, Primary: Chilling Embrace (AE, slow), Energy Absorbption (AE buff/debuff), Frozen Armor, Hoarfrost, Wet Ice, Glacial Armor
Must Haves, Secondary: Taunt, Ice Patch (AE, Knock), Freezing Touch (Single, Hold), Frozen Aura (AE, Hold), Ice Sword, Frost, Greater Ice sword
Don't Forget: Provoke, Hasten, [Travel Power], Health, Hurdle, Stamina
Slots Left: 4, so you could get the one fear powers you have access to in the Preence Pool, but do it for fun, they CAUSE runners and melee-ers ain't too fond of runners. Icicles and Hibernate ain't bad either.
Results: 4 Controls, 2 MEZ, 1 Immobilize, 1 Knock, 3 AE + 3 offense
Analysis: I knew it, you want more control than this. Still, pretty good for a melee-er.
[/list]

Invulnerability/Super Strength Tanker
<ul type="square"> Must Haves, Primary: Temp Invulnerability, Resist Physical, Resist Elements, Resist Energy, Unyielding Stance (no real losers in this pool though)
Must Haves, Secondary: Taunt, Hand Clap (PBAE, Disorient), Knockout Blow (single, Knock) Foot Stomp (PBAE, Knock), Jab (may disorient), Haymaker (may knock), Hurl (range!)
Don't Forget: Provoke, Hasten, [Travel Power], Health, Hurdle, Stamina
Slots Left: 2, so you could get the two fear powers you have access to in the Preence Pool, but do it for fun, they CAUSE runners and melee-ers ain't too fond of runners. Plenty of good stuff left in Invuln for you, so limit yourself to just one more attack from Super Strength, if any.
Results: 3 Controls, 1 MEZ, 2 Knock, 2 AE
Analysis: This is considered one of the best primaries and one of the WORST secondaries. But the Devs have said SS will get some love soon. And meanwhile you have some fun controls!
[/list]

CONTRAPPER (Controlling Scrapper)
Martial Arts/Dark Armor Scrapper
<ul type="square"> Must Haves, Primary: Cobra Strike (single, disorient), Crane Kick (single knock), Axe Kick (single, slow), Dragon Kick (AE, Knock), Thunder Kick (poss disorient), eagles claw (possible disorient)
Must Haves, Secondary: Dark Embrace, Murky Cloud, Obsidian Shield, Oppressive Gloom (PBAE, Disorient)
Don't Forget: Provoke, Hasten, [Travel Power], Health, Hurdle, Stamina
Slots Left: 2, how can you resist the cloaks. They're so controller-y. (But fear is bad for melee-ers)
Results: 5 Controls, 2 MEZ, 2 Knock, 1 Slow, 2 AE
Analysis: Better than the Ice Ice tanker! OK, maybe this is the right build if you want to solo - it is a scrapper after all! Still most scrappers would call you gimp-city.
[/list]

SCRAPTROLLER (Scrapping Controller)
Illusion/Kinetics
<ul type="square"> Must Haves, Primary: Spectral Wounds, Blind, Flash, Group Invisibility, Phantom Army, Phantasm
Must Haves, Secondary: Transfusion (think of it as regen), Siphon Power, Repel, Transferrence, Fulcrum Shift
Don't Forget: Flurry, Hasten, Super Speed, Manuvers, Assault, Tactics
Slots Left: 1, Stealth or combat jumpingwill stack with GI and Manuvers for more defense - you'll need it! But don't buy them too soon. If using brawl drives you nuts you'll use this for boxing instead.
Results: 2 Mez, 2 Pets, 1 Knock, Lots of buffs and debuff which you'll need to survive being in melee range and flurry to supplement brawl
Analysis: Peole will say you are a total gimp, my friend. But you're soloing, Who cares what they say!
[/list]

ProcessedMeatMan

09-29-2004, 12:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ummm... i thought this was about "controllers"

[/ QUOTE ]

Knew I'd see this sooner or later. The Controller AT is the WORST soloing AT. Some other ATs that are better at soloing hav some lesser, but still decent controls.

So, if you really want a solo controller, you shuold consider two paths - the path of AT Controllers with OK soloing powers and the path of AT non-controllers with OK controlling powers.

Both types are in here. In the controller AT, I chose fire because of it's DoT and illusion because of it's "solo-focus". While RAD is a great solo secondary, grav doesn't compare to Fire or Ill for a pure soloer.

Now, if you want to make a Controller that CAN solo, but would like to group, too. GRAV starts to look a lot better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got what you were going for, I was just expecting something else, obviously. While Ill and Fire controllers can solo FASTER(i'm stopping just sort of better) than a good Grav controller, i would argue that they aren't far behind in overall solo effectiveness. I solo +2-3 mobs a lot with lvl 38 grav/Rad and never get hit. Does it take me a minute or two longer than a fire controller to defat all the baddies? yes, sure, but I don't drag 15 imps behind me KSing other peoples mobs when I move on to the next kill.

I'm biased anyway, so just let me ramble :cool:

Bokon

10-01-2004, 11:31 AM

I'm wondering how many of you have even tried a solo controller. I see many posts about how a controller cant solo as well as any other AT but my ill/storm does alot better at soloing than my ma/sr scrapper does. And as everyone knows storm doesnt have that many great buffs... I keep two phantasms out all the time, have perma-hasten, stamina, and cycle through either flash-freezing rain combo or phantom army for every group of mobs. I also have assault and tactics running constantly. When I run to a group of +1 mobs I usually take out 3 or 4 instantly with my phantasms cone attack and clean up the rest after that. I can easily get 200k+ xp per hour with this build.

Generic_NA

10-01-2004, 09:13 PM

Are we talking about soloing well now or 20+ levels from now?
Anything +Illusion will solo decent pre Spectral army. After that it's full speed ahead. As for the other Primaries....well I have an Ice/Storm and a Earth/Rad in semi retirement at lvl16.

Bokon

10-02-2004, 09:28 PM

Yes...perhaps I should have said, I havent seen any controller solo well before level 32.

Pans_Folley

10-03-2004, 04:21 AM

I have been using the Fire / Kin build and the Ice/Ice blaster build. These builds have been working great! I am just a part time player, and unable to build relations enough to get groups on regular basis. Solo is a much better option. Even when I get in a group, the solo builds have proven to be a bigger advantage! I can keep my own against orange & red while in group while working well on blue and white in solo. I have been in PP and Hallows almost not stop now. I am really happy with what I have here now! Thanks for the Great Idea! :)

Kibbo

10-03-2004, 10:58 PM

I must ask why you didn't include the DDD. I think that the Dark secondary for defenders has by far the best control factor, with TT and Dark Pit. Also, the dmg of the set is superior to Psychic Blast.

My 2 inf.

Babaganoosh

10-03-2004, 11:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
At first thought, the obvious alternative is Dark/Dark. That secondary has 2 ROOTs and 1 KNOCK. Meanwhile MENTAL has 1 HOLD, 2 ROOTs and 2 KNOCKs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just wanted to point out that 1 of Dark Blasts roots is an AOE cone and that Dark Blast also debuffs Acc and Dmg. If a mob is not rooted or held but can swing all day long and not hit you, is that not also a form of control?

icaros

10-04-2004, 02:44 AM

**concerning the illu/rad build**

i hope nobody takes your illu/rad build to make a char.. i can't imagine playing him that way - sorry to say. mine is 39 and he is a real blast to play. i can easily pl other people, so u can see the credibility of him soloing.

imo u need am, hasten and ef *before* 10 in order to have em slotted up at 18, when u get pa. if u don't, soloing will be very very time intensive and get boring fast. u need fast recharge on ur holds, ur sw and for sure on ur pets. and ef is ur bread and butter, majorly more so than ri.

ri can definately wait till after stamina, making it mid-twenties. it is usefull for full grps, but phantom army or phantasm decoys don't take any damage anyway - so better to take a power that helps ur soloing. great debuff, just not quite as early on as in ur build. i had zilch problems with pets missing the mobs, so no reason for ri so early on.

and lr after ri. just to get priorities right. lr is a nice thing, specially while soloing av's - but not worth getting it early and ruining ur general soloing abilities by leaving out important powers.

i'd leave deceive out of the build too. it might be a nice thing to have, but all skills up to lvl 38 are much more important and u wont use much (if at all) post 20.

another small thing, switch health for hurdle. u wont miss health at all but u will *luv* hurdle, so much better jumping! i'd recommend that to any char, cause u rn't going to slot health anyways and its effect is so minor compared to the better movement abilities from hurdle.

grp invis is a great thing, but i'd take it after ri - pre stamina u just can't spare many powers if u want to min/max ur controller - but thats a personal thing i guess.

Mercadia

10-04-2004, 06:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
FIRE/KINETICS CONTROLLER

lvl 1a) Ring of Fire CONTROL:ROOT (single,immob)
lvl 1b) Transfusion (de)BUFF:HEAL (ae,debuff)
lvl 2) Char CONTROL:MEZ (single,hold)
lvl 4) Fire Cages CONTROL:ROOT (ae,immob)
lvl 6) Smoke (de)BUFF:DEBUFF (ae,acc)
lvl 8) Hot Feet CONTROL:ROOT (ae,immob)
lvl 10) [pool] Hasten (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,speed)
lvl 12) Flash Fire CONTROL:ROOT (ae,disorient)
lvl 14) [pool] Super Speed MOVE (self,run)
lvl 16) Siphon Power (de)BUFF:BUFF (ae,debuff)
lvl 18) Cinders CONTROL:MEZ (ae,hold)
lvl 20) Speed Boost (de)BUFF:BUFF (single,speed)
lvl 22) [pool] Hurdle MOVE (self,jump)
lvl 24) [pool] Health (de)BUFF:HEAL (self,hp)
lvl 26) Bonfire CONTROL:KNOCK (ae,damage)
lvl 28) Transferrence (de)BUFF:BUFF (single,debuff)
lvl 30) [pool] Stamina (de)BUFF:HEAL (self,end)
lvl 32) Fire Imps CONTROL:PET (ae,damage)
lvl 35) Increase Density DEF (single,mez)
lvl 38) Fulcrum Shift (de)BUFF:BUFF (ae,debuff)
Not Taken) Inertial Reduction (de)BUFF:BUFF (ae,jump)
Not Taken) Repel CONTROL:KNOCK (single,damage)
Not Taken) Siphon Speed (de)BUFF:DEBUFF (single,buff)

[/LIST]

[/ QUOTE ]

Some things I'd like to point out as a Fire/Kin player:

First, Transferrence isn't availible until level 35. You have it listed at 28th.

Hot feet is not an immobilization attack. It's a slowing attack, similar to caltrops from the devices set. Villans will try to get out of the hot feet's range, and this can spread them out to the point where the whole spawn can't be caught in a single AoE anymore.

Those were facts, the following are my opinions based on experiance:

You want some vertical mobility. Superspeed is nice, but it's limiting even with hurdle. As a kinetics, inertial reduction gives you superjump without forcing you to spend a power choice in a prereq, or taking up a valuable power pool. I strongly recommend taking it when (or soon after) it becomes available at 28th.

Ring of fire really isn't *too* useful once you have stamina. Early on, it's nice to root a single mob without having to pay the increased endurance cost for fire cages. Once endurance isn't a problem, you really don't mind the cost of fire cages. (The only thing you worry about is accidentally waking up another spawn w/ it's AoE) It's an okay damage-dealing attack if you're soloing, but is completely outclassed by fire imps when you get them. I'd actually suggest ignoring ring of fire completely, or taking it for the early levels and respecing it away post 34th when you ahve fire imps 6-slotted.

Look into the leadership pools now that your pets benefit from them when you're soloing. Defense and Tactics are nice. I really need to copy my character over to test and figure out if vengance works on the corpse of a dead fire imp.

Level 30 is far, far too long to wait for stamina, especially since Transferrence doesn't come until 35th. I'd get stamina at 20 or 22 and start slotting it so that it's 6-slotted before level 27 when you can place store-bought SOs in it.

Bokon

10-04-2004, 07:39 PM

What?

JohnnySandwich

10-04-2004, 07:58 PM

I like how you took transference at 28...

Pilcrow

10-05-2004, 06:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
First, Transferrence isn't availible until level 35. You have it listed at 28th.

Hot feet is not an immobilization attack. It's a slowing attack, similar to caltrops from the devices set. Villans will try to get out of the hot feet's range, and this can spread them out to the point where the whole spawn can't be caught in a single AoE anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

OOPS. DOH! It's too late to edit. Reversed Transferrence and Density!

Anyhow, you and the others who've mentioned that there are better builds of any specific powersets are probably right. As I state in the Addendum, these are more to show the powersets you'd best play with and give you a *workable* build of each than they are meant to be the absoute best build of their particular type. In some cases I specifically took some oft taken powers (hasten, stamina) in different places in different builds just to show that you can.

If you do go to build from any of these templates, take some time to search the board for other builds for the same powersets. Then remember, Uber Controller, able to Solo. Dump a bit of damage for a bit more control. Then have some fun!

Thanks to everyone who added intelligent commentary to this thread. The more information here the better.

Pilcrow

10-05-2004, 09:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At first thought, the obvious alternative is Dark/Dark. That secondary has 2 ROOTs and 1 KNOCK. Meanwhile MENTAL has 1 HOLD, 2 ROOTs and 2 KNOCKs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just wanted to point out that 1 of Dark Blasts roots is an AOE cone and that Dark Blast also debuffs Acc and Dmg. If a mob is not rooted or held but can swing all day long and not hit you, is that not also a form of control?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to beat on the DDD, which is a very good powerset combo, but debuffs aren't controls. This is a guide for people who love controlling, but want to solo. Not the best overall builds - the best controlling in each AT.

DDD is great for a person who likes control, it just didn't add up to as many controls. Dark owns the primaries for control (storm a close second) and Dark is a great control secondary, but psychic has a bit more control, even if it is a slightly less effective powerset.

People who like control will be quite happy with DDD.

Delamuerte3000

10-09-2004, 01:05 AM

Interesting thread. Can't wait to try out some of these builds. I love my controller but the ice blaster caught my eye :D

PsychicKitty

10-10-2004, 08:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
ILLUSION/RADIATION CONTROLLER

CONTROLS: 8 of 9 possibles w/6 AEs
BUFFS/DeBUFFS: 7 of 9 possibles w/2 AEs
OFFENSE: 3 of 4 possibles w/2 AEs
OTHER: 2
NOTES: The "solo controller" according to the press. Why, because they get a few damage focused attacks and an extra pet. They trade a lot of control for those things though. Still they're easier to solo pre-32 and post-32 they're good.
<ul type="square">
lvl 1a) Spectral Wounds OFFENSE:DAMAGE (single,)
lvl 1b) Radiation Emission (de)BUFF:HEAL (ae,hp)
lvl 2) Blind CONTROL:MEZ (single,hold)
lvl 4) Flash CONTROL:MEZ (ae,hold)
lvl 6) Deceive CONTROL:STATUS (single,confused)
lvl 8) Radiation Infection OFFENSE:DAMAGE (ae,debuff)
lvl 10) [pool] Hover (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,move)
lvl 12) Group Invisibility (de)BUFF:BUFF (ae,def(invis))
lvl 14) [pool] Fly MOVE (self,fly)
lvl 16) Enervating Field OFFENSE:DAMAGE (ae,debuff)
lvl 18) Phantom Army CONTROL:PET (ae,tank)
lvl 20) Lingering Radiation CONTROL:SLOW (ae,speed)
lvl 22) [pool] Swift MOVE (self,run)
lvl 24) [pool] Health (de)BUFF:HEAL (self,hp)
lvl 26) Acclerate Metabolism (de)BUFF:BUFF (single,speed)
lvl 28) Choking Cloud CONTROL:MEZ (ae,hold)
lvl 30) [pool] Stamina (de)BUFF:HEAL (self,end)
lvl 32) Phantasm CONTROL:PET (ae,damage)
lvl 35) [pool] Hasten (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,speed)
lvl 38) EM Pulse CONTROL:MEZ (ae,hold)
Not Taken) Superior Invisibility (de)BUFF:BUFF (self,def(invis))
Not Taken) Spectral Terror CONTROL:STATUS (ae,fear)
Not Taken) Mutation (de)BUFF:HEAL (single,rez)
Not Taken) Fallout OFFENSE:DAMAGE (ae,)
[/list]

EDIT: After input found below trading ACCELERATE METABOLISM for SPECTRAL TERROR. WHY? Buff to Pets post-32 is strong, meanwhile TERROR is still set to scatter mobs instead of cower them. If the MC changes trickle down to the illusion set, prepare to make a hard choice!

[/ QUOTE ]

I personally would not use this build...I find my Illusion/Empath far more effective, with my recovery aura and regeneration aura.

But then again I also use superior Invisibility and Group Invisibility, becasue 2 minutes does not cut the mustard, and slotting group invisibilty is a waste of slots for the end game.

DarkDelusion

10-10-2004, 09:02 AM

PrettySammy I have to agree with icaros here. Illusion/Rad over Empathy.

What do I know? - I have Empathy/Dark Defender and a Dark/Rad defender, among other characters and have just started an Illusion/Rad Controller.

Why? - In order to solo or kill a mob it is 75% about killing the mob 25% about recovery time. What do I mean by that? I mean that I need to be as efficent (the amount of time to kill a mob) as possible when killing a mob. Next I need to be able to attack the next mob without a lot of downtime. While Empathy when I finnaly get RA at level 28 will certainly help with downtime that is both too long to wait and really does not help me kill my mobs faster. With AM and EF being available to Radiation it clearly is the superior choice for a Solo or "mob killing" build. That is not to say it is a better choice for all builds like support roles or whatever, it is clearly not as efficent as Rad for soloing and certainly not early on.

warren_grant

02-14-2005, 05:08 PM

My Illusion/Radiation Controller just made 32 and got the Phantasm. I have a few notes I would add:

First of all, I have had no problem soloing with this character from level 1 up. Sure it got easier at 18 when I got PA, and even easier when I got SOs at 22 and PA was fully slotted, but I was always able to solo more or less. Now, I have grouped a bit with my SG, but most of my 32 levels have been done primarily solo (this was an alt until recently, now I consider it my main, although I have a Claws/Invuln scrapper at 40 atm).

I went with Fly. The Phantasms can fly, although PA can't. PA fades after a minute though, so Fly seemed the safest route for movement powers.

I have Spectral Terror and it is periodically useful, but I agree in its current form its utility is somewhat weak for the most part. When I am grouping and we get charged by large numbers of mobs, I fall back and cast ST to provide a safe spot for the squishies. It doesn't chase everyone away, but I can usually flash and get those who come through it.

I have both GI and SI. GI is great but since its timed it has a tendancy to fade when I am busy in a fight. SI is useful when I want to sneak across a zone or through a mission to the end. In retrospect I would probably spec out of it if I had something else I thought was more important. It has been useful to me. Oh another trick I have tried is casting a few Phantasms, turning on SI and then running througha group of mobs to drag the Phants onto it. Then I can turn off SI and cast PA on the mobs from the other side to keep them sandwiched between my pets. Not sure if its a viable tactic yet or not as I am still working on figuring out how best to use the pets.

Get AM and Hasten as early as you can so they are both 6 slotted by the time you get PA. Then as you slot out PA go for 1 damage and 5 recharges. You can get more or less Permanent PAs that way with a 9s gap between recasts. I used flash to save myself from the aggro in that gap. Post 32 I am still using the same setup because the PA acts as a nice Tank to keep the aggro off me, and even with just one Damage SO the Phants do decent enough damage.

I have at 32, successfully taken on 2 purple 35 Bosses (Crey and 5Th Col^H^H^HCouncil) with some effort multiple times. I can easily take 4 or 5 red con mobs, and bunches of oranges or yellows are just a short fight. The chaos is immense when you have 2 Phants plus their decoys plus 2-4 PA present, I feel like a small army :)

IronScarlet

02-15-2005, 01:06 PM

Has anyone thought of Fire/FF controller, since fire imps are week u can FF them and make them live longer also in a tuff situation make your self live longer. The longer imps live the more damage they do.

zannal

02-27-2005, 02:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone thought of Fire/FF controller, since fire imps are week u can FF them and make them live longer also in a tuff situation make your self live longer. The longer imps live the more damage they do.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, with FFs your imps will rarely die (I can count the times my shielded imps have died on 2 hands) but you will have no damage buffs avilable for them. The Shields do make life easier for you when seeking teams in that you can be a FF defender for a team before your controler abilties are slotted more. Also on the shielding of the imps, it takes a wile to shield the imps every time and leaves you with about 1/4th of your endruance when you summon/bubble and if you are on teams with other fire controlers it is best to just run dispersion and manuvers if you have it instead of going mad and shielding all the imps.

Lord_Michlo

02-27-2005, 09:59 PM

Starfire_One

04-18-2005, 01:07 PM

I'd have to say that my build, while it may not be the best, if an awesome build for soloing.

Exported from version 1.4D of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh

Archetype: Controller
Primary Powers - Ranged : Illusion Control
Secondary Powers - Support : Force Field

01 : Personal Force Field defbuf(01)
01 : Spectral Wounds acc(01) dam(17) dam(34) acc(36) dam(36) dam(36)
02 : Deceive acc(02) cnfdur(3) cnfdur(3) acc(5) cnfdur(5) cnfdur(7)
04 : Deflection Shield endred(04) defbuf(43) defbuf(46)
06 : Flash acc(06) recred(7) hlddur(13) acc(15) endred(15) hlddur(17)
08 : Hasten recred(08) recred(9) recred(9) recred(11) recred(11) recred(13)
10 : Recall Friend endred(10)
12 : Insulation Shield endred(12) defbuf(45) defbuf(46)
14 : Teleport endred(14) rng(45) rng(50)
16 : Swift runspd(16)
18 : Phantom Army recred(18) recred(19) recred(19) recred(21) recred(21) recred(23)
20 : Health hel(20)
22 : Stamina endrec(22) endrec(23) endrec(25) endrec(25) endrec(27) endrec(27)
24 : Group Invisibility endred(24) recred(45) recred(46)
26 : Spectral Terror recred(26) ferdur(37) ferdur(37) ferdur(37)
28 : Dispersion Bubble endred(28) defbuf(29) endred(29) defbuf(31) endred(31) defbuf(31)
30 : Detention Field endred(30) endred(40) endred(50)
32 : Phantasm recred(32) recred(33) recred(33) recred(33) recred(34) recred(34)
35 : Maneuvers endred(35) endred(48)
38 : Force Bubble endred(38) endred(39) endred(39) endred(39) endred(40) endred(40)
41 : Conserve Power recred(41) recred(42) recred(42) recred(42) recred(43) recred(43)
44 : Assault endred(44) endred(48)
47 : Tactics endred(47) endred(48)
49 : Power Blast acc(49) dam(50)

-------------------------------------------

01 : Brawl acc(01)
01 : Sprint jmp(01)
02 : Rest recred(02)

I am a Controller to be reckoned with. I am currently at level 26 and rock! My tactics are simple...
1) I confuse the biggest-baddest [censored] in the group.
2) I drop my phantom morons right on top the the group while the big-bad is wailing on them
3) I drop off a Spectral Terror on them to root them and make them wet themselves.
4) While they are playing with my moron squad, I run in (with group invisibility of course) and flash them.
5) keep dropping phantom morons and hitting them with spectral wounds... if someone gets too close to me, or if they even think about attacking me, they get confused and become another pet of mine!

Except for TFs I've soloed all my missions up to this point and even defeated Dr. Vaz solo!

As for my secondary of Force Field. Well, PFF works as an "oh, shite" power and I have had no problem finding a group being a "bubbler."

Rufus_NA

04-18-2005, 02:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I noticed on this thread there was no mention of my build. Am I doomed then as a Mind & Kinetic Controller?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've only played Mind/Kinetics to 28. The mind/ primary is considered weak because it does not have a pet, but is generally considered the strongest primary from 1 to 18, and one of the better primaries from 18 to 32.

Another issue is that, for soloing, the two most useful powers for you from Kinetics will probably be the ones that are available at 35 and 38.

For soloing, you would do well to pick up an efficient pool power attack such as flurry or kick in order to deal damage. In general, you will be better off on teams though.

Remember, that it's a game, and all about doing things you enjoy, rather than getting there the fastest, or doing the most damage (although people do enjoy doing that as well), or whatever.

Frozen_NA

05-19-2005, 01:04 AM

Maybe I am missing something, but as a Ice/Ice blaster, I have never seen a pet involved.
Please clue me in. I would LOVE to know.

MysticArcane

05-19-2005, 05:31 AM

While I have not played with controllers too much, I thought I could contribute to this a bit. I noticed that no one has mentioned that Superior Inv now allows attacks to be made while active. I would still might go with Group Inv because, after all, you don't ALWAYS solo and its nice to have an extra boost to your team.

Also, Ice doesn't have a pet of any kind that I can see either. Though Elec primary does, and it also has Short Circuit(big end drain still) and Tesla cage, and its psuedo-pet Voltanic Sent. may be a better control primary to go along with Ice.

As far as Mind/* controllers go, by far the most damaging powers in the controller set. Probably the balance against having pets. I know damage isn't the focus we are talking about, but it helps in solo-ability a lot! I like Mind a lot, but do miss the pet potential, especially compared to Ill controllers, but I do like the real damage they do comparatively.

I am not sure about the solo-ability of these, but they certainly pour out the pets end(nothing compares to an ill of course, but...), how about a Storm/Elec defender:lots of control in storm, Gale, Hurricane, Rain and Storm powers, plus pets:Tornado,and Lightning Storm, plus Elec, Voltanic Sentinal, Tesla Vage, and Short Curcuit...

Cheers!

Xandier

05-19-2005, 12:25 PM

OK...here's my 2 influence worth....I have a lvl 50 FIRE/RADIATION Controller. You want to solo? You want to make your teammates wipe drool off their chins when they see how much damage a fire/rad can do? Oh yeah...it IS possible. 6 slotted Flashfire, 6 slotted Cinders, 6 slotted Fire Cages, 6 slotted EMP Pulse, 6 slotted FIRE IMPS, 6 slotted AM, 6 slotted Radiation Infection, 3 slotted Enervating Field,smoke, Leadership pool, 6 slotted Hasten....nuff said.
I have taken out lvl 54 Zeus Titans...yes,that's right,LEVEL 54. I can hold pretty much ANY villian, then debuff the !@#$ out of him,and sit back and read the paper as my imps clean up. Now,having said all that,,,what's the drawback you ask? Hey,glad that question was brought up!!! Well,for one thing, we pretty much SUCK until level 32 and we are END HOGS. For anyone wanting to build an AWESOME controller,go fire/rad. BE WARNED.....levels 1-31 will suck.It will suck bad.Real bad.Hang in there and TEAM with as many people as you can. Once you get the imps, go hunting in Brickstown.you can get a LOT of levels here. you can solo in Bricks, or you can have a few friends tag along as they watch you own the streets.
If you do not believe me, send me a tell( I am on Justice) and I will show you. I have a TON of people tell me that my build is probably one of the best fire controllers they have ever seen.
Later all and happy Hunting! :cool:

Booboo_Finger

05-19-2005, 02:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]

As far as Mind/* controllers go, by far the most damaging powers in the controller set. ....

...I am not sure about the solo-ability of these

[/ QUOTE ]

I just started a Mind Control/Empathy Controller, and she kicks booty. Mind control does good damage and is pretty much all mezzes (exept for levitate, but that is really usefull when you see a mob picking up a rock or something).
I haven't really developed the empathy part. But I find that Healing Aura and Rez are also a big draw for finding a team whenever I don't want to solo.

Defenestrator

05-19-2005, 03:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Dark/Psy Defender

While i don't doubt their control potential, I heavily doubt their soloability. Psy blast is hands down the worse defender secondary, and i can vouch for that as i play a defender with a psy secondary. It does absolute minimal damage. And when i make that statement i don't look at per hit, i look at damage per second (DPS). Reason why DPS is so horrible is for the fact that everything in the psy blasts set takes a really long time to execute, all really long recharges, and cost alot of endurance. While the powerset offers several control type powers, none are effective enough to consider a control power, with the exception of scramble thoughts. That is still however, single target mez, with again minimal dmg. This build could probably group well with the control powers it has, however soloing would be painfully slow, and not worth it at all. It could be my huge bias against psy blasts, but in all honesty, the powerset is horrible, I wish I never picked it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everything in the Psi powers takes a long time to execute?

You have a snipe which takes 6 seconds. This is the same as any sniper attack.

The first power in the set (Mental Blast) is unbearably long (2.7 seconds). Subdue and Telekinetic Blast fire off very fast (1 second on TB!). The recharges are about standard with every single other defender set. The only thing missing is that one really fast recycle power (Rad has Neutrino Bolt, but has slower recharges going down the line). But this doesn't matter because how often does a Rad Defender actually fire off a Neutrino Bolt? Defenders in groups are generally applying debuffs or heals instead of damage.

The only real problem I've found with Psychic is the 50% resistance robots get against it. Other than that, it's a good set. (Taking Telekinetic Blast helps here, though, as it has a smashing damage component to it.)

With the huge boost to Tar Patch in Issue 4, a Dark/Psychic defender can dish out a good amount of hurt with relative safety. (Darkest Night + Tar Patch + Psychic Scream)

I've worked up to level 23 on this build so far. No problems at all soloing. No problems in groups (even SKed up to take on some of the nastier baddies in the game).

Night_Raptor

05-23-2005, 06:15 PM

BIG NOTE REGARDING ILLUSION CONTROL:

Superior Invisibility now allows you to attack.

SharpSword

05-23-2005, 08:01 PM

Greetings, all.

Well I'm on my third day in and enjoying things a bit more than I expected except for finding it very hard to solo.

I noticed on this thread there was no mention of my build. Am I doomed then as a Mind & Kinetic Controller?

Any tips welcome as I'd rather not start over. I just gained Fly and I've always liked characters with mental abilities.

Lord Michlo

I am playing a mind/force field controller. I would recommend since you are taking fly to take air superiority. It does nice damage, knocks down most of the time, and recycles decently. It will complement your mind powers well and give you extra damage to be able to solo. Plus it acts as another way to controll with the knock down.

Mafia_Godfather

05-23-2005, 08:45 PM

Lord Marshal is a ill/storm troller and he solos VERY VERY well :D In fact i would go as far to say its probably the best solo AT troller combo in the game.

Xandier

05-23-2005, 09:23 PM

Think so?
Scarlett Angel kicks some SERIOUS BOOTY... :p I LOVE MY FIRE/RADITION CONTROLLER!!!

I will say this....Illusion IS tough in the Arena.....those !@#$ indestrucible phantoms SUCK :D

Hero_of_City

06-14-2005, 10:05 AM

"Soloability" is a funny thing, I think, for controllers. For my controller, pre-32 sucked totally, and post-32 soloing is too easy. So "on the average", fire/emapthy is a good solo build (jokingly said). I mention that build only because I haven't seen it addressed so far in the thread. I certainly won't argue that it should be in the "Top 5", but post-32 it's got such a nice combination of powers that I think it's worth looking at. Areas of special-big-fun include:

- hold, immobilize, stun, and debuff from your fire control set.
- damage (and a little tanking) courtesy of your imps.
- keeping yourself and your imps up and running with your healing powers.
- buffing and protecting your imps with empathy powers.
- healing aura and recovery aura keeping up your blue and green without using pool powers.

I was mighty frustrated for 31 levels, but now feel like a whole team wrapped up in one toon. Even set on invincible, missions are far too easy. So I guess my point is: if you are willing to go a little slow and team up a lot for a while, you will end up with a heckuva late blooming solo controller.

The_J_Man

08-13-2005, 04:07 PM

In light of the i5 changes I think soloability for controllers pre-32 will go way up. I have in fact tried a few builds on an idea I had for a scrapping controller.

ill/trick arrow:
Since illusion is the weakest set as far as controlling crowds, I grabbed trick arrow as the secondary for the extra hold and immobilize. The biggest power in this set for the early part of the game is spectral wounds. On test I was taking down even lvl cons with one shot (cant remember slotting though). LTs were simple as well because they never really moved. I will probably not go with this set though because it feels more like a blasting controller than a scrapping one.

earth or ice/kinetics:
I picked kinetics over radiation because the heal is stronger, it uses less end (I dont care for anchors too much) and I just think it looks cool :). I played both of these sets to lvl 5 just running around atlas and they both solo well. It will take some getting used to but once you figure out who to hold and who to immobilize and who to debuff and who to kill first (its easier than it sounds) then you will fly through groups. I was hunting constant +1 and +2 groups. I think I will probably go for ice even though earth controllers have more holds because I like the pets more.

The main part that will help make my ice/kin troller soloable is that I will be taking the fighting pool (I actually took the ice one to lvl7 just to see if fighting pool powers get the boost). With 6 slotted boxing and kick plus the damage done by the holds, things will fall pretty fast. Its all theory beyond lvl 7 but I totally plan on trying it out.

P.S. My fire/storm controller solos like a mad man. After lvl 32 and especially after 38 I could solo any mission I had aside from AVs.

Pilcrow

08-24-2005, 08:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In light of the i5 changes I think soloability for controllers pre-32 will go way up. I have in fact tried a few builds on an idea I had for a scrapping controller.

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur.

I still have some testing to do of TA and Sonics to make the BEST calls, but here are some darn good solo controller builds for I5. Again, these are meant to be guidelines, not exact builds. If you want to scraptroll with mind as a primary, try a Mind/Kin + the fighting pool.

I've always been suprised at how useful people found this guide. I hope this will serve as a decent stopgap until I know enough about I5 to pick the "best".

Happy gaming all...

Archetype: Controller
Primary: Mind Control
Secondary: Storm Summoning
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Mesmerize(1)
01) --> Gale(1)
02) --> Dominate(2)
04) --> Levitate(4)
06) --> Hasten(6)
08) --> Mass Hypnosis(8)
10) --> Confuse(10)
12) --> Hurdle(12)
14) --> Super Speed(14)
16) --> Health(16)
18) --> Total Domination(18)
20) --> Stamina(20)
22) --> Hurricane(22)
24) --> Steamy Mist(24)
26) --> Terrify(26)
28) --> Snow Storm(28)
30) --> Freezing Rain(30)
32) --> Mass Confusion(32)
35) --> Tornado(35)
38) --> Lightning Storm(38)
41) --> Fire Ball(41)
44) --> Fire Shield(44)
47) --> Fire Blast(47)
49) --> Thunder Clap(49)

Archetype: Controller
Primary: Illusion Control
Secondary: Radiation Emission
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Blind(1)
01) --> Radiant Aura(1)
02) --> Spectral Wounds(2)
04) --> Accelerate Metabolism(4)
06) --> Hasten(6)
08) --> Air Superiority(8)
10) --> Superior Invisibility(10)
12) --> Deceive(12)
14) --> Fly(14)
16) --> Hurdle(16)
18) --> Phantom Army(18)
20) --> Health(20)
22) --> Stamina(22)
24) --> Enervating Field(24)
26) --> Spectral Terror(26)
28) --> Radiation Infection(28)
30) --> Lingering Radiation(30)
32) --> Phantasm(32)
35) --> Choking Cloud(35)
38) --> EM Pulse(38)
41) --> Power Blast(41)
44) --> Temp Invulnerability(44)
47) --> Conserve Power(47)
49) --> Teleport Foe(49)

Archetype: Controller
Primary: Fire Control
Secondary: Kinetics
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Char(1)
01) --> Transfusion(1)
02) --> Ring of Fire(2)
04) --> Fire Cages(4)
06) --> Hasten(6)
08) --> Boxing(8)
10) --> Siphon Speed(10)
12) --> Flashfire(12)
14) --> Tough(14)
16) --> Hot Feet(16)
18) --> Cinders(18)
20) --> Weave(20)
22) --> Kick(22)
24) --> Repel(24)
26) --> Bonfire(26)
28) --> Inertial Reduction(28)
30) --> Speed Boost(30)
32) --> Fire Imps(32)
35) --> Transference(35)
38) --> Fulcrum Shift(38)
41) --> Indomitable Will(41)
44) --> Mind Over Body(44)
47) --> Mental Blast(47)
49) --> Psionic Tornado(49)

Archetype: Blaster
Primary: Ice Blast
Secondary: Ice Manipulation
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Ice Bolt(1)
01) --> Chilblain(1)
02) --> Ice Blast(2)
04) --> Frost Breath(4)
06) --> Hasten(6)
08) --> Freeze Ray(8)
10) --> Chilling Embrace(10)
12) --> Hurdle(12)
14) --> Super Speed(14)
16) --> Health(16)
18) --> Bitter Ice Blast(18)
20) --> Stamina(20)
22) --> Ice Patch(22)
24) --> Ice Storm(24)
26) --> Bitter Freeze Ray(26)
28) --> Shiver(28)
30) --> Whirlwind(30)
32) --> Blizzard(32)
35) --> Freezing Touch(35)
38) --> Frozen Aura(38)
41) --> Body Armor(41)
44) --> Sleep Grenade(44)
47) --> LRM Missile(47)
49) --> Build Up(49)

Archetype: Defender
Primary: Dark Miasma
Secondary: Dark Blast
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Tar Patch(1)
01) --> Dark Blast(1)
02) --> Twilight Grasp(2)
04) --> Gloom(4)
06) --> Hasten(6)
08) --> Shadow Fall(8)
10) --> Dark Pit(10)
12) --> Darkest Night(12)
14) --> Super Speed(14)
16) --> Tenebrous Tentacles(16)
18) --> Hurdle(18)
20) --> Health(20)
22) --> Stamina(22)
24) --> Fearsome Stare(24)
26) --> Petrifying Gaze(26)
28) --> Black Hole(28)
30) --> Night Fall(30)
32) --> Dark Servant(32)
35) --> Moonbeam(35)
38) --> Blackstar(38)
41) --> Dark Consumption(41)
44) --> Dark Embrace(44)
47) --> Oppressive Gloom(47)
49) --> Soul Drain(49)

Tutu_Chance

09-22-2005, 09:05 AM

I'm a lvl 18 controller with Mind/Kenetics and I have done all but one of MY missions solo. I join groups if I feel like it on other peoples missions and have sidekicked and expemplared(sp) to help myself and others on these missions. The only mission of mine that I have accepted or asked for help on is defeating Dr Vahz in Perez park. I don't have to defeat him in order to complete the mission, but I got whomped the first time it tried to take him on and now it's a matter of pride for me to take him out, even if I have to have assistance in doing it. BTW I'm using a sidekick lvl10 blaster to do this. I have had no difficulty in completing my missions and usually only die when I get cocky OR IF I'M WITH A GROUP.

I have Mesmerize, Levitate, Dominate, Mass Hypno, Total Domination, Transfusion, Siphon Power and Speed, Swift, Stealth and Health.

My range on most of these is great and I can either pick them off one by one from a distance or use the mass powers to help imobilize so I can use the healing to better effect.

I love my character and we like to go it alone for the most part.

So, no, a mind/kenetic is NOT doomed. Have fun!

IgnatiousCalhoon

10-19-2005, 02:17 PM

I was reading a guide from a couple months back that mind/kin is great for early levels, but slows down in solo-ability as the game goes on...just wondering if anyone can verify if mind/kin slows down XP-wise, post-32.

"Although it gets no pet at 32 like other control sets, it's actually faster than most controllers (illusion the obvious exception) for soloing pre-32 thanks to a moderate damage single-target attack (levitate) and a lower damage, but huge cone attack (terrify). After 32 you will probably be the slowest soloing primary in the entire game - just so you know" quoted from Breville (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Number=2925519)

Pilcrow

07-31-2006, 03:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was reading a guide from a couple months back that mind/kin is great for early levels, but slows down in solo-ability as the game goes on...just wondering if anyone can verify if mind/kin slows down XP-wise, post-32.

"Although it gets no pet at 32 like other control sets, it's actually faster than most controllers (illusion the obvious exception) for soloing pre-32 thanks to a moderate damage single-target attack (levitate) and a lower damage, but huge cone attack (terrify). After 32 you will probably be the slowest soloing primary in the entire game - just so you know" quoted from Breville (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Number=2925519)

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's true in a sense. Mind's ST direct damage plateaus out pretty quickly, and they don't get a pet to help ameliorate that.

But, if you use Mass Confusion judiciously, yet often, it solos quite respectably. Getting Fireball from the Fire EPP can be helpful here to tag some damage on everyone confused so you get some credit for each kill as they eat one another alive. Terrify helps for that as well. Also wise for a soloing mind is "stealthing" to mission objectives (something Mind can do with Mass Hypnosis and Confuses without having to actually get stealth), and levelling fast by getting mission bonuses quickly instead of creating big heaps of dead bodies.

Illusion or Fire are going to outperform Mind, unquestionably. But I still think Mind has Ice, Earth, and Grav beat for effective soloing. YMMV.

Combat

08-01-2006, 09:37 AM

Are counting soloability by speed, or the ability to beat any challenge the game throws at you?

Pilcrow

08-01-2006, 02:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Are counting soloability by speed, or the ability to beat any challenge the game throws at you?

[/ QUOTE ]

An optimal combination of the two, with no interest in maximizing "beat any challenge" beyond the ability to defeat an EB, since a soloer need never encounter one unless he wants to with the new slider rules, and no interest in maximizing speed at the expense of being able to play the game for content (you cna make a BEAUTY of a zone hunter, but that grows tiresome for most).

prospect

08-31-2006, 10:56 AM

what kind of pointers could be given on Mind/Rad controller. I'm new in the game and am working with one right now..
only 9lvl.

looking for direction.

Frost Warden

09-01-2006, 08:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Archetype: Blaster
Primary: Ice Blast
Secondary: Ice Manipulation
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Ice Bolt(1)
01) --> Chilblain(1)
02) --> Ice Blast(2)
04) --> Frost Breath(4)
06) --> Hasten(6)
08) --> Freeze Ray(8)
10) --> Chilling Embrace(10)
12) --> Hurdle(12)
14) --> Super Speed(14)
16) --> Health(16)
18) --> Bitter Ice Blast(18)
20) --> Stamina(20)
22) --> Ice Patch(22)
24) --> Ice Storm(24)
26) --> Bitter Freeze Ray(26)
28) --> Shiver(28)
30) --> Whirlwind(30)
32) --> Blizzard(32)
35) --> Freezing Touch(35)
38) --> Frozen Aura(38)
41) --> Body Armor(41)
44) --> Sleep Grenade(44)
47) --> LRM Missile(47)
49) --> Build Up(49)

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of curiosity, any reason why you skipped the Cryo Freeze Ray in Munitions Mastery? I have an Ice/Ice Blaster that uses the Cryo Freeze Ray as a third hold. With the amount of AVs that you fight at higher levels, I find a third hold (with a quicker recharge and a shorter animation time than Bitter Freeze Ray) essential to my blaster.

Erydanus

09-02-2006, 11:38 PM

I just want to point out that this guide originated before controllers had containment, and before area holds & pets were decreased in power to make the overall experience smoother across all levels. Take all the early posts with a grain of sand. I, for one, have a level 42 Gravity/Radiation controller and it's been easy to solo him anytime I've wanted to. ANY good controller build will be much more soloable today than it was in 2004.

HotButteredSoul

09-02-2006, 11:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ANY good controller build will be much more soloable today than it was in 2004.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you haven't tried soloing an Earth/Sonic or Earth/FF pre-32. Try that for fun! Sure it's easier now that in 2004, but that's not saying much. Grav/Rad? Piece of cake with homemade frosting.

railrunner

10-17-2006, 01:59 PM

I like the build of the fire controller but i have a fire/emp controller that i love the build it has the damage of the fire and the emp really works very well for soloing from the first lvl you can go with any of the difficulty lvl you like from the start and go to invinciable once you get your fire imp's.all i took from the fire side was char,fire cages,bonfire and imps from the emp side i have healing aura,heal other,and both the RA's from the extra power set's i took fitness,fighting,speed and leaping and with the power's from these set's i can walk into a mish filled with reds and purple's and take everything out without dieing myself if anyone would like to find out more about how i built this toon just look for me on liberty server under the s/n Nina Shanks

FrauleinMental

10-17-2006, 03:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Greetings, all.

Well I'm on my third day in and enjoying things a bit more than I expected except for finding it very hard to solo.

I noticed on this thread there was no mention of my build. Am I doomed then as a Mind & Kinetic Controller?

Any tips welcome as I'd rather not start over. I just gained Fly and I've always liked characters with mental abilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you've made an excellent choice. But then, I'm a little biased--my main (and only 50) is mind/kin.

I've done both solo and team play with my mind/kin, and I find both enjoyable. Like most solo play, you'll level slowly--especially in the 30s. I don't have the experience to compare the level vs time rate against other ATs. As a benchmark, though, with combined solo and team play, and this being my first character above level 10, my mind/kin dinged 50 in 436 hours of play.

In solo play, you'll have to be careful. The damage does plateau--I solo'ed Countess Crey as a +0 EB, but that's about the limit for me (though she's a tough one for a mind controller, since she is one too, plus having a bunch of status resists). You'll get a lot more mileage from the mezzes--almost every mind power inflicts a status of some form, whether sleep, hold, confuse, knockback/knockdown, or the wierd pseudo-hold of Telekinesis (which I stayed away from). The kinetics set complements it nicely with extra buff/debuff powers. If you intend a solo-only career, you can rule out some of the kinetics powers, like Speed Boost and Increase Density (which are others-only).

As a team player, you'll be an invaluable asset to the team. Your holds, buffs/debuffs, and heals will make you very popular, as long as you can stand the endless "SB plz" messages. :)

In my mind, mind/kin suffers two disadvantages (and they're workable):
1. Many of your buffs and heals have to hit an enemy to work. I get around this by making sure I double- or triple-slot for accuracy. I've triple-slotted Siphon Speed since I got it.
2. Sleep mezzes are easily broken by any attack on the sleeping target. I'm looking at you, Mr. "Let's pull with Fireball"! :) One thing I do to offset that and the accidental multi-spawn aggro is to save my AoE hold for just such an occasion.

One final thing you'll want to think about, and it's a very contentious issue around here: confuse powers. I have both the single-target and the AoE confuse powers for mind, but I rarely use them. Some teams don't like them because they take away from the XP for a given mob. Some like them because they have the potential to increase the XP per time. I ride the fence, kinda--I save them for when I'm about to get hosed. If it comes down to losing a little XP for the spawn confusion or losing a lot of XP for debt, I pop those powers out.

But that's just my play style. :)

TaxiDefense

10-17-2006, 04:37 PM

i think that youre fire/kin guide is ALL wrong. ring of fire? what? ring of fire is completely useless. why not wait til a little later and get fire cages? seems reasonable to me. and to add, i think that on ANY build they should get swift or hurdle at level 6. ANY BUILD. it gives you faster speed, and its not like your not gonna get health and stamina when you get up anyways.

Justaris

10-17-2006, 09:33 PM

Regarding Ring of Fire... Um... Containment? Not saying it's the gem of the Fire Control set, but it's more accurate than Fire Cages and recharges faster (since it's a ST rather than an AE) and sets up Containment. So, not useless.

And the sweeping generalization about Fitness actually falls apart more often than it holds up, although most characters will benefit from getting Stamina at some point.

Yes, Fitness is nice, but you don't have to take one of the Fitness prereqs at level 6. In fact, I'd argue that you're doing yourself a disservice by doing so, since those powers are a minor quality of life improvement where you could have had an attack to up your DPS or a defensive/mitigating power to keep yourself alive. I generally take one of the Fitness powers when I have nothing spectacular I want to take at the given level - which is usually not at level 6.

So yeah, if the guide is "ALL wrong", you might want to come up with more than that. Have you actually even played either Fire Control or Kinetics before?