Regarding recent changes…

[geko]

For those of you who were in Beta, you know I always do my best to listen to the community, as does the rest of the Cryptic team. As always, we are all listening and watching. Nothing is permanent in an MMP. New features will be added, and things will change. Not every change will make your Hero more powerful, but it is our goal to make it more fun. Those are not always the same things. It is not fun if it is not challenging (that is, easy is not always fun).

My point is anything can change. If a change is bad, it can be modified. Many rants about Hasten hit the boards before most people even tried out the changes. Also, many of the upgrades and improvements to other powers were not even considered. So, for now, I am simply asking you to try things out for a while, and we will do the same. I promise things will ebb and flow until we hit a sweet spot. My guess is Hasten will not be reverted, but the pendulum will probably swing back the other way a little bit. The same may hold true for Accelerate Metabolism.

So, with that said, let me give you my 10 Commandments of Geko:
*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
*I will not be scared to be wrong.
*I will react as quickly as possible, but not sooner than needed.
*I will not be scared to be unpopular.
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.
*I will not reduce Accuracy.
*I will try my best to give you detailed information.
*I will make Statesman wash my car.

(well, 9 out of 10 aint bad)


A few last words…

Please try to avoid rumors. We have no intention to stealth nerf. Once in a rare while a change goes out that falls off a patch note, or a change is made that affects things in an unforeseen way (technically, this is a bug). But it is not in out best interest to try to pull the wool over your eyes. If you think you see a problem, please politely let us know. Long ranting posts full of disrespect often gets ignored and a real problem may get overlooked. If you see a change that is not in a patch note, it may not belong there, but it may also simply have been overlooked. Either way, we will do out best to confirm things for you.

Finally, there are a lot of you, and these boards are huge. We read as much as we can, but we can’t read and respond to everything. But never assume you are being ignored. Remember, for most issues, please use the in-game petition tool.

[Ex_Libris]

Geko, just so you guys and gals know, for the most part, we couldn't be happier with the responses given to us, and the attitude you all have dealing with the community. While the hasten nerf did catch a lot off guard, I can understand why it was modified. I hope that over time we can all adjust to these changes, and if it's warranted, I hope there is a bit of adaptation towards a more "community friendly" version...(maybe like uh...I dunno something...anyways whatever)

That being said, if you could please look at aim and build up and let us know if those will be altered. Their timers are less than Hasten, and before I dump a lot of enhancement slots in them, I would very much like to know if they will be altered for balance sake.

Thanks so much.

[Ex_Libris]

Thank you Geko.

[Orikage]

[ QUOTE ]

So, with that said, let me give you my 10 Commandments of Geko:
*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
*I will not be scared to be wrong.
*I will react as quickly as possible, but not sooner than needed.
*I will not be scared to be unpopular.
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.
*I will not reduce Accuracy.
*I will try my best to give you detailed information.
*I will make Statesman wash my car.

(well, 9 out of 10 aint bad)



[/ QUOTE ]

Well considering Statesman's temper last time the patch went out I'm suprised you're trying to sneak that in. Hoping E3 will distract him I suppose.

Geko you and the rest of the Devs have done a fantastic job of responding to requests and messages. Not everything has been perfect but you've offered to provide calculators, shown us under the hood how certain powers work and have tried to answer the questions we have. This board moves fast.

Few games have ever managed to do so, MMORPG or not so I'm glad to see how fast everything goes.

[Azalin]

Sounds good. Thanks.

[Mattie_NA]

[ QUOTE ]
(well, 9 out of 10 aint bad)

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah ha! I knew accuracy was nerfed! :D

[Ex_Libris]

I want AM to be -usefull- for END regeneration. That is the main thing I used it for, powering the other END hogs in the radiation power set :confused:

[Ninja_Squirrel]

I'm not going to make demands in terms of changing AM, as much as I'd like to. All I want is an explanation of why its recharge was increased so damn much, and what kind of testing was done in terms of the viability of Radiation after the change. I will bear the frustration and anger and try to group using Adam Smasher tonight, and see what I find.

[Ex_Libris]

Edited: Thanks for the heads up Geko :)

[Siergen]

[ QUOTE ]
*I will make Statesman wash my car.

[/ QUOTE ] Considering his super-strength, do you really want him rubbing vigorously on your car's finish? ;)

[Tropez]

geko > all

[Ex_Libris]

I thank you for this post.. I do hope you look closely at the things that happened. Im not afraid to admit im wrong but I will also stand up for what I think is right.. after looking at all the numbers and trying things I agree hasten needed to be changed, however I think it went a little too far. I think it should get close to perma haste at 4 slots and be in overlap at 5.. SO of course.

Am however I think was way off base, when I did my character deletions post I was very suprised people werent happy but were sticking to their characters. Am people were much much unhappier, leaving the game and deleting characters. This is a primary power for defenders and it really cut the legs out from under them. I really believe this needs to be put back to previous levels completly, or at least very very close. If not rad needs a long hard look at the powerset and the end cost and it needs to be brought down for not having enough recovery to power it. I think that is much harder thing to do.
FYI I had a grav/rad controller I deleted and a rad/dark defender which is waiting for respec though I might have to delete. I find I cant do anything other than leach exp, I get in a fight and my end just falls into negative numbers.

[Winwin]

Thank you, Geko... I may have been a meanie/whiner for a while, but I am starting to get a really high opinion of you guys. :)
Hearts,
Winter

[Gator]

Thanks for the feedback, its greatly appreciated.

[FuFufin]

"My guess is Hasten will not be reverted, but the pendulum will probably swing back the other way a little bit. The same may hold true for Accelerate Metabolism"

What does this mean? You gave the Radiation Emission a good, hard old fashioned, SoE style 'Nerf'

Will there be further balancing to this line? Now a major ability of it has been reduced. Are you following up the information regarding timer reducers that do not seem to be working correctly? Why is the regen time longer than Hasten?

And as much as I'm happy for the boosts you gave other powers... that doesnt help me much.

A Radiation Defender

[Ex_Libris]

Geko -

This is a post with information I've been trying to get to you guys for days in some cases, weeks in others, including bugs I've reported since beta.

Fast Overview -
1. Haste is 10 minute base recharge, not 9.
2. Removing enhancements from haste is bugged and will make the client do odd things
3. Dull pain does not give the proper number of hitpoints
4. Dull pain permanently reduces your hitpoints
5. Combustion is costing considerably more to cast than most sources say it is suppose to cast (just looking for verification here).

In greater detail -

1. The base recycle time of haste is currently TEN minutes, not nine. This is pretty easy to verify... Just create or use a character with haste, take all the enhancements out of it, and you'll see it has an 8 minute 38 second click to click recycle time. 70% bonus for the 120 seconds of haste running takes 84 seconds off of the recharge timer. 8:38 + 1:24 = 10:02. This means that the lowest down time period you can have, using 6 SOs,is 52 seconds, not the 32 (or 14 or any other low number) that has been posted elsewhere. The only way to get under 52, for arguement's sake would be to use SOs that are over your level, but I'm trying to compare apples to apples. For arguements sake, I did test this with other enhancement combinations and they all yield the same result, haste is not on the 9 minute timer that Geko said it should be on.

2. If you have a time enhancement in haste and then remove it (so you have no enhancement at all), then the client treats the recycle time on the button as if you had an SO in it. Again, easy to verify... Enhance haste with a trainer (not sure if you have to actually use haste at this point), then destroy the trainer so the slot is empty. You will see the button for haste refresh in 5 min 55 sec, but it doesn't actually become usable until the full 8 min 40 sec have elapsed. This may be an issue when timer enhancements go below level (turn red) as well since I've had super group members complaining about buttons suddenly being out of sync... purely speculation though.

3. Dull pain still does not give 40% bonus to hitpoints, it actually give less than 30% added to the top end while healing for the correct 40% amount.

4. Dull pain still PERMANENTLY removes hitpoints (usually 2) after the first time it is used. Neither dying nor relogging will fix this. Verify by making a level 2 invulnerable tanker, take note that it has 130 hpts, use dull pain, wait for it to wear off, now only has 128 hpts.

5. Combustion (for fire tankers) is listed in a couple of places as being a ~12 endurance power. In game it actually costs 19 to use. That's nearly double what the blaster version costs to use... Balanced? Bugged? A typo in all the "official" sources?

Thanks for taking the time.

[TheMattman]

Geko, you are one cool cat.

[Ex_Libris]

Thats cool. but umm what about telekinesis? that power should not be aoe and needs to be fixed as well as it needs to work on bosses. add a level restriction to it or something but please fix it the way it is and makeing it aoe just does not cut it. leave to aoe push to storm controllers and give the mind controllers a single target hold/push just as it was

[Valari]

[ QUOTE ]

So, with that said, let me give you my 10 Commandments of Geko:
*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
*I will not be scared to be wrong.
*I will react as quickly as possible, but not sooner than needed.
*I will not be scared to be unpopular.
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.
*I will not reduce Accuracy.
*I will try my best to give you detailed information.
*I will make Statesman wash my car.

(well, 9 out of 10 aint bad)



[/ QUOTE ]



Why isn't this on there?

*I will not lie to the players

or

*I will be honest at all times regarding CoH game systems and mechanics


Obviously there are some things you aren't allowed to reveal, so the appropriate response would be "Not allowed to answer that". I think all rational people can accept that answer. I would hope people wouldn't ask for the why of it and just accept you have limits to what information you can dole out.

BUT

It is entirely unacceptable to say "100% working as intended, will not change" and then change it barely two weeks later. I think it is unacceptable to change it ever, without explaining the reasoning behind the change but that is just me.

Just please treat us better then you (Cryptic) did with the TF and nerf patch and I will resubscribe. I like this game, I plan to play it for a long time if I am convinced enough to resubscribe.

[Atomic_Woman]

[ QUOTE ]
It is entirely unacceptable to say "100% working as intended, will not change" and then change it barely two weeks later. I think it is unacceptable to change it ever, without explaining the reasoning behind the change but that is just me.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the developers decided that something was (or was becoming) a balance issue, they have to fix it. They can't just toss up their hands and let it go on just because they said they wouldn't beforehand. Game balance trumps all.

[ThePrankster]

[ QUOTE ]
*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
*I will not be scared to be wrong.
*I will react as quickly as possible, but not sooner than needed.
*I will not be scared to be unpopular.
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.
*I will not reduce Accuracy.
*I will try my best to give you detailed information.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't say I will always agree with you, but if you stick to this you will always have my respect. Don't know if that means anything.

[Valari]

I don't see how it wasn't a balance issue in beta and became one in two weeks. Either way, and explanation would have been nice, coupled with a "we farked up, we admit it".

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how it wasn't a balance issue in beta and became one in two weeks. Either way, and explanation would have been nice, coupled with a "we farked up, we admit it".

[/ QUOTE ]

My tinfoil hat theory? People that were leveling to 40 ASAP *knew* that it worked that good in BETA, but didn't mention *how* good it was.

It might have been mentioned, but you have to remember, the DEVs can't play the game nearly as much as super-players that find exploits very quickly.

IIRC, the guy who said he made it to 40 even said that he was using Super Speed, even though he knew that it was going to be changed. He *exploited* the powers to his fullest to get there in two week just to be "first".

[Ex_Libris]

Thanks for the update, geko! Please bear in mind that when some issues get prompt dev comment and/or attention while others get no public aknowlegement at all, it is impossible for the community to distinguish between an intentional policy of no comment while the issue is under consideration and the issue simply not registering on the devs' radar. Hence the frustration.

Just to briefly summarize a bug we've found with unenhanced Accelerate Metabolism: the unenhanced power's button appears to pop after 9 minutes; however, the power itself cannot be used again until 11+ minutes after the power was activated. Adding an enhancement seems to clear up the problem. Full details can be found in this thread. (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=411821&page=4&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) (This has been /bug'd, by the way.)

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So, with that said, let me give you my 10 Commandments of Geko:
*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
*I will not be scared to be wrong.
*I will react as quickly as possible, but not sooner than needed.
*I will not be scared to be unpopular.
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.
*I will not reduce Accuracy.
*I will try my best to give you detailed information.
*I will make Statesman wash my car.

(well, 9 out of 10 aint bad)



[/ QUOTE ]



Why isn't this on there?

*I will not lie to the players

or

*I will be honest at all times regarding CoH game systems and mechanics


Obviously there are some things you aren't allowed to reveal, so the appropriate response would be "Not allowed to answer that". I think all rational people can accept that answer. I would hope people wouldn't ask for the why of it and just accept you have limits to what information you can dole out.

BUT

It is entirely unacceptable to say "100% working as intended, will not change" and then change it barely two weeks later. I think it is unacceptable to change it ever, without explaining the reasoning behind the change but that is just me.

Just please treat us better then you (Cryptic) did with the TF and nerf patch and I will resubscribe. I like this game, I plan to play it for a long time if I am convinced enough to resubscribe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cryptic has never lied to us. Not once. I've seen mistakes made, and corrections and revisions to those mistakes, but never outright lies.

They never said Hasten would not change. They said it was working as intended at the end of beta, and that it seemed to be balanced. They found this to be untrue, so they changed it. This isn't a lie of any sort.

If I gave you an unopened gallon of milk and said it should be fine, you would drink it yes? Then if it was sour, did I lie to you?
How was I to know?

How were they to know that Hasten was that broken before the end of beta? They didn't have the massive amount of players, and all the data that provides before that time.

Leave. Don't come back. I'm not going to miss you, nor is anyone else.

[Valari]

The Devs knew how good it was in beta, because lots and lots of people told them how good it was. They were specifically asked if it was going to be changed for retail because it was just that good.

The answer geko gave? "It is 100% working as intended and will not be changed".

And they nerfed the snot out of it barely 2 weeks after that statement. Why? And why no "we farked up, we admit it"? Why no "Here is why we made the changed, despite what we told you"?


I place honesty from the Devs way up the list on what will keep me paying and playing. It didn't even make Geko's list of things he would do. I hope it was an oversight :)

[Dahcism]

thanks for the update there geko. im very happy with the dev team working on this game, and thats not something i can say for many other mmo's.

[Shikamaru_NA]

[ QUOTE ]
Many rants about Hasten hit the boards before most people even tried out the changes. Also, many of the upgrades and improvements to other powers were not even considered. So, for now, I am simply asking you to try things out for a while, and we will do the same. I promise things will ebb and flow until we hit a sweet spot. My guess is Hasten will not be reverted, but the pendulum will probably swing back the other way a little bit. The same may hold true for Accelerate Metabolism.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look, I admit that I haven't gotten all the way back up to level 36 since the nerf or anything, but that's not necessary here. Yes, you did make things better too, but NONE of those sthings had any impact whatsoever on how Hasten was nerfed. For example, the patch notes did not say:

* The timers on Dark Melee:Soul Drain, Dark Melee:Dark Consumption, and Super Reflexes:Practiced Brawler have been reduced so that by default they can be activated at least once per fight, given average fight durations.

Had you also made that vital change, I wouldn't have batted an eye over the Hasten change, but as NO changes weere made that in any way positively effected either the Dark Melee powerset, or the Super Reflexes powerset, and the Hasten changes DID in no uncertain terms negatively effect both those sets (not as much as some, but plenty), I feel fully justified in trying to come up with a more mutually agreeable solution than the one that you came up with.

I really want to hear what, exactly, you guys intend todo about this. This is not a change that should stay for wekks or months. A basic, if not permanent solution should be worked out within the next week or so, something that willl at least make Hasten an always on ability for a more reasonable cost, without making it as unbalacing as some think it was before the change.

[Ex_Libris]

Ok first, Not all the changes affect everyone, except hasten. The reason the other buffs did not get mentioned is because they affected less people. Still, it does not matter how many "happy" things you add to a patch, they never outweigh the "unhappy" MAJOR nerfs cause.

With that being said, Geko and the rest of the dev team, I apologize! I was overly harsh. I still believe the things I posted about hasten, and I am still not happy with its current incarnation for my build, BUT I did not need to be so "on the offensive"

I want to thank you for this post, it is big of you.

I would also like to propose that many people are overly critical of this game because they love it, and they don't want to see anything tarnish it.

Thanks agian.

[Zoots]

I have great respect for you and your fellow Superdevelopers Geko. You gained that through about 6 weeks of beta and now through retail.

You have been right about many things - and you are most probably right about many things in this last big patch. The changes to Telekinesis are justified (and I HAVE that) - likewise the changes in some form to Hasten (didn't have that btw). You were right about the changes at around end of beta to Enervating Field as well.

However with regards to AM - I am sorry but on this one you're wrong in your adjustment. In short ... this power was and never were overpowered. Players that took the powerset that has this AM power - give up on quite a few other choices to get this buff. Why? Overpowered? Nope - simply because it provides a little less downtime especially if your character depends on END hungry powers like the rest of the powerset.

You ask us to focus on other changes also. Well I play mostly 2 controllers - Mind/Rad and Ice/Rad. My Ice controller is certainly happy with the Confuse addition to ArcAir effects - but as I have said elsewhere - I have no idea why you added it - that power was plenty powerful as it were. My Mind controller is also happy about the extended sleeps he can now make - but again I didn't really need it - it was fine as it was. Telekinesis changes are fine - though this comment measured on "what's to come" not as the power is now (i.e. pretty much useless).

That AM nerf made both of those chars harder to play. Controllers are not exactly the fastest killers on the planet - so having to play 80% of their time without the addition of some END recovery from AM is very very tough.

Arguments like "well with 6 SO END recov" you will only have XXX min downtime with AM is ... umm pure bad taste Geko. My chars are 19 and 15 - started in 3 day headstart - so I am not exactly a powerleveler. A 19 and a 15 cannot have 6 SO's in that one power - not even one SO actually. Was it really your intention to make AM only interesting and useful to level 30-35+ characters? - i.e. players that COULD have 6 slots allocated to one power and put SO's in all of them?

Arguments? Well you haven't really argued about the AM nerf. There has been NO explanation about this change to AM. Why was it nerfed? We are a lot of people that simply don't understand this one - and don't understand why you will not talk about it. There are explanations of Hasten - but not about AM. You claim you aim to communicate Geko - please do so about AM. Why?

[geko]

[ QUOTE ]
The Devs knew how good it was in beta, because lots and lots of people told them how good it was. They were specifically asked if it was going to be changed for retail because it was just that good.

The answer geko gave? "It is 100% working as intended and will not be changed".

And they nerfed the snot out of it barely 2 weeks after that statement. Why? And why no "we farked up, we admit it"? Why no "Here is why we made the changed, despite what we told you"?

I place honesty from the Devs way up the list on what will keep me paying and playing. It didn't even make Geko's list of things he would do. I hope it was an oversight

[/ QUOTE ]
There seems to be a lot of rumors and conjecture about what was said in Beta. To be honest, I dont know what was said, but I remember the train of events. Hasten used to be a Toggle with NO END cost. The Beta testers proved this to be too powerful. I THINK at that point, it was changed to a click, with a standard up front END cost. The duration may have been 60 seconds. In any event, it soon was changed into the way it was when the game shipped (120 sec dur, wiht an END drain at the end). The funny thing was everyone screamed "NERF" and said we ruined Hasten and it was now worthless. They demanded we change it back. It was probably at that point that I said we were happy the way it was and we were not going to change it back b/c it was too powerful. So we let it ride, and we assumed that incarnation of Hasten would ge well balanced. Mind you, there were a FEW (sarcasm) other things on our mind, and lots to balance and lots to do. We moved on the the next thing.

Soon after launch, it quickly became clear that it was still too good. We neglected to consider that Hasten Hated itself, which was allowing players to keep it on all the time. I dont have a problem with it being on all the time, but I do have a problem with it being on all the time with only a handful of DO Enhancements. So we were wrong. It was not working as intended. Accelerate Metabolism was only adding to the problem. So we made a change. If needed, we will be happy to make another change.

Nobody lied, and no promisses were broken. Anything in the game is subject to change at any time. More changes will come. I appologize if I didnt put it in writing that I will not lie, but if that will somehow help, then ok:

I will not lie.
I will not kill (sorry forgot that one too)
I will not commit adultry.
I will not steal.
I will honer my mother and father.
I will not take Statemans name in vain.
I will eat my veggies.

I am not sure what you are looking for, or what can be said that was not already said. Valaie, do you promise to:

*Not to lie
*Not fly off the handle
*To be polite
*To not say someting is teh suck before trying it out
*Admit when something is overpowered
*Not to theaten to hold your account hostage or hold your breath until you turn blue unless we give in to your demands
*Follow the rules of the boards
*Not to scream "stealth nerf" when you miss 4 times in a row
*Not to Grief
*Dont talk to strangers
*Smite evil and fight injustice
*Eat your veggies
*Wash my car


About AM. I hope it has not gone unnoticed that AM is a good buff. It buffs your attack speed AND your run speed AND your fly speed AND your damage output AND protects you from sleep, hold and immobilize. 2 rad defenders could keep this buff on the team permanently. Even 1 could do the same thing wiht a few recharge enhancements. That really is too much buff time for an AoE buff that is this powerful. Again, I negelcted to account for the fact that AM hasted itself, so that added to the problem. We will probably reduce the RT time on it a bit. I am not happy with how long it is now, but it was too fast before.

[geko]

[ QUOTE ]
For example, the patch notes did not say:

* The timers on Dark Melee:Soul Drain, Dark Melee:Dark Consumption, and Super Reflexes:Practiced Brawler have been reduced so that by default they can be activated at least once per fight, given average fight durations.

Had you also made that vital change, I wouldn't have batted an eye over the Hasten change,

[/ QUOTE ]

Soul Drain RT is 120 seconds
Dark Consumption RT is 180 seconds
Practice Brawler RT is 200 seconds (w/ a 120 dur, thats 80 seconds downtime.

These are all very poweful, yet even w/o Hasten, the longest recharge is 3 minutes. I dont see how you couldnt use each of these pretty much every battle.

[Valari]

[ QUOTE ]



Soon after launch, it quickly became clear that it was still too good. We neglected to consider that Hasten Hated itself, which was allowing players to keep it on all the time. I dont have a problem with it being on all the time, but I do have a problem with it being on all the time with only a handful of DO Enhancements. So we were wrong. It was not working as intended. Accelerate Metabolism was only adding to the problem. So we made a change. If needed, we will be happy to make another change.

Nobody lied, and no promisses were broken. Anything in the game is subject to change at any time. More changes will come. I appologize if I didnt put it in writing that I will not lie, but if that will somehow help, then ok:

I will not lie.


I am not sure what you are looking for, or what can be said that was not already said.



[/ QUOTE ]


That is what I was looking for. An explanation (you gave it), an admission that you farked up/were wrong (regarding earlier statements, not your current position), and a statement that you aren't gonna come to these boards and feed us a bunch of crap.

If that was there from the day the patch was first propped, I wouldn't have had much to say about the whole deal aside from the respec issue.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
About AM. I hope it has not gone unnoticed that AM is a good buff. It buffs your attack speed AND your run speed AND your fly speed AND your damage output AND protects you from sleep, hold and immobilize. . That really is too much buff time for an AoE buff that is this powerful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Defenders and controllers rely on AM for the one attribute you failed to mention, endurance regen. How bout removing the run speed, flight speed, damage add, and then reduce the time recharge back some ?

Read thru the 30 posts on people complaining about the AM adjustment, i dont see a single one complaining about loss of run speed, flight speed, or damage increase. Pretty much every thread is the loss of endurance regen for normal fighting, ans some for the haste effect . Its now used only for a boss fight.

[geko]

[ QUOTE ]
That is what I was looking for. An explanation (you gave it), an admission that you farked up/were wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not too proud to admit when I am wrong. The fact is, every time any game makes a patch, it is becasue a mistake was made, or somthing is just not as perfect as we want it. Maybe its a typo, or something was not anticipated. OR maybe simply a loophole was found. In any event, I dont recall feeding anyone crap.

[geko]

[ QUOTE ]
Defenders and controllers rely on AM for the one attribute you failed to mention, endurance regen. How bout removing the run speed, flight speed, damage add, and then reduce the time recharge back some ?

Read thru the 30 posts on people complaining about the AM adjustment, i dont see a single one complaining about loss of run speed, flight speed, or damage increase. Pretty much every thread is the loss of endurance regen for normal fighting, ans some for the haste effect . Its now used only for a boss fight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I actualy had that, and accidently edited it out. But that is a very significant part of the power. But that sorta is my point. AoE END REcovery is very powerfull. Only Emapthy has another AoE Recovery boost, and its the second to last power and has a 500 second recahrge. Nothing is more powerful than END. It is probably more important than HP. That is what makes AM so powerfull, and why its recharge was increased. Other defenders dont have that advantage. It was unbalanced. But again, the RT tie will be reduced, but not to the way to used to be.

[Ex_Libris]

Sheez, finally, some recognition about what Ive been trying
to say... I might have said it wrong in many ways but my
message was the same...

Try things out before you [censored] about it...

Allso, geko can u read my thread called "The truth about the hasten "nerf""?
Yeah yeah, so you will ban me when you read it but can you
atleast answer my questions before you do?

[Dahcism]

and this is why geko is the man.

[Ex_Libris]

Which is why I now think stamina is a better power than accelerate metabolism. Stamina is on 100% of the time and costs no endurance to cast. I don't, and most other users don't, care that much about anything except the endurance buff.

I know I'd sure like an up front answer whether or not stamina is being looked at for "balancing." Otherwise I'll skip the rad powerset entirely and just pick up stamina like 90% of the rest of the population.

[Durron]

The two cents that I would like to add here at this point is that, while I don't disagree that the powers that were nerfed in the 5/11 patch were unbalanced, I feel that there are several powers that are even more unbalanced, yet they were not fixed.

Have you noticed that nearly every character that's 35+ is a devices blaster? That's because Targeting Drone allows Snipe to do a whole damage to deep purple bosses (in particular things like Totems who can't get to you if you're hovering), and because Caltrops + Ignite / Rain of Fire / other AoEs + running around corners allows blasters to kill large groups (by large I mean danger zone size) of high level enemies at relatively low risk.

Also I want to mention the brokenness of the Fire/Ice tanker, who can take provoke and use that to get really high enemies to run into Burn that then proceed to trip on the Ice Patch, both of which always hit. We were using that technique the other day when a group of 25/26s were killing everything that moved in Brickstown, including large spawns of level 35 Vampyrs and Nightwolves.

So basically what I'm saying is, can you please try to fix the most serious balance issues (the ones that truly are causing people to powerlevel), or at the very least say that the power is difficult to come up with a good solution to how to balance it effectively, but that the problem is being worked on?

Thanks for reading my rant.

[geko]

[ QUOTE ]
I know I'd sure like an up front answer whether or not stamina is being looked at for "balancing." Otherwise I'll skip the rad powerset entirely and just pick up stamina like 90% of the rest of the population.


[/ QUOTE ]
There is not present plan to modify Stamina. It takes 14 levels, and 2 powers to unlock stamina. Then it takes 2 DO enhancements for Staminas END Recovery buff to be as effective for one player as AM gives to your whole team. Yes it is Auto, but it stil does not give all the other buffs AM does.

[Ex_Libris]

Geko is officially my new hero.

[TheDragon_NA]

He tells the truth. Stamina is almost useless unenhanced, and even ONE DO doesnt make it ALL that much better, 2 makes it so I ALMOST dont run out of End every single fight.

I think instead of wondering whats so good about stamina that makes people take it, you might think about what is so bad about the rest of the powers... like END COST!!!

I have a friend who has said he will stop using fireball because of the end cost. He took the power, and now wont use it. That to me is VERY wrong. I know part of the game is to ration your endurance, but yikes, the end cost of most powers is a bit much.

[Ex_Libris]

Seems like geko is online now?
Can you plz look at some of my posts and answer some of my
questions?

I can still read this board even if Im banned right?
or do I have to change to my other account?

[Ex_Libris]

Geko, I have no idea where you've been for the last 3 days, but I wanted to thank you for taking the time to answer so many questions regarding the changes to AccMet in this thread. The changes to that buff caused no small amount of distress and the lack of explanation following created even more confusion and angst. This kind of conversation is exactly what people needed.

I look forward to the proposed shortened recharge timer. At this point in time, anything is better than the monolithic one it has now.

[Ninja_Squirrel]

Rather than keep pushing for AM to be completely reset, I'd like to urge you to please look carefully at end usage in the Rad set. The reason there is such a clamour about AM no longer being able to be made continuous by around level 20 (or at least to be usable in the majority of battles) is that Rad Primaries have chronic endurance problems, even with AM running constantly, I would have endurance problems, even with 4 level+3 generic end regen enhancements in Accelerate Metabolism, and DOs or SOs end reduction in my toggle powers.

Maybe the adjustment to AM was needed for group balance, but something is wrong with the Rad set, because it was very much dependant on AM's effect on the hero in order to function on an equal level to other Defenders. Now with AM not filling the role it did, Rads are not competitive.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a friend who has said he will stop using fireball because of the end cost. He took the power, and now wont use it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haahahaha, that's hilarious. Fireball is quite possibly the most powerful base AE damage spell in the game. Not using it is like making a controller and refusing to do CC. The end cost on fireball is more than reasonable, and slotting a few end reducers will mitigate it even further.

My main toon is a fire blaster, and fireball is my favorite power. It is, quite litterally, the bomb. :)

[geko]

I see nothing wrong with Rad Blast and RAd Emmision END cost. It is comperable to all other sets, and identicle to their counterparts on others sets.

[Shikamaru_NA]

[ QUOTE ]

Soon after launch, it quickly became clear that it was still too good. We neglected to consider that Hasten Hated itself, which was allowing players to keep it on all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was not unknown during beta (or at least not unknown to your co-workers). I know I brought it up on an almost constant basis oin the balance boards (although I did not see this as a problem in the least). The comment people are reffering to came at the very tail end of beta, no more than half a week before launch, and was either by you, or perhaps Poz. Not sure which, but the content of it was clear, that even though we had detailed how easy it was to get Hasten running all the toime, in dirrect response to that the developer in questions said that the power was functioning as intended, and would not be changed.

[ QUOTE ]

These are all very poweful, yet even w/o Hasten, the longest recharge is 3 minutes. I dont see how you couldnt use each of these pretty much every battle.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but do you play this game? ;)

The average battle solo takes perhaps a minute solo, often much less, and I can reach the next spawn in twenty-some seconds. That's without Hasten active mind you. There's a lot of variance there, but they generally go pretty fast. Group battles vary much more wildly, but here's what I do know:

In beta, at level 35, I had Soul Drain slotted with one SO recharge (due to the screwy slots during beta, I'll have more now), I also had Quickness active, and Hasten active. With all of that, my average was the Soul Drain was ONLY available halfway through the fight after using it at the begining of a fight. That is, I'd run in, use SD, finish off that spawn, move to the next, and SD wouldn't be ready again until halfway through that fight, when several of the enemies had already been killed.

Scrappers move fast. Their abilitis have to keep up with them.

Dark Consumption I can understand the Hastened timer on, it doesn't need to be ready as often as Soul Drain.

Practiced Brawler needs to be on ALL the time. With the above configuration and like three SOs I could get it so that it would recharge right before it went off, so I could keep it going constantly, but without Hasten there will be uncomfortable gaps, especailly at lower levels.

Also bear in mind that not all powers can have 6 SOs in them, you don't give us that many slots to go around, and also that not every slot can go into recharge SOs, ACC SOs are almost a necessity, since we need to hit at least six enemies with SD to get a bonus as large as something like Build Up (at +12% per enemy hit).

Hasten needs to be on ALL the time, and it must do so with few enhancements. If you do not feel it's balanced as is, I have a thread going that lists possible compromises, but Hasten MUST be constantly active, regardless of the performance costs. The power is not useless, nbut it is simply not worth it as it is.

[ QUOTE ]

There is not present plan to modify Stamina. It takes 14 levels, and 2 powers to unlock stamina.

[/ QUOTE ]

PLEASE make this the balance on Hasten then. I can deal with that. Make it the last Super Speed power so that you can leave it as is.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe the adjustment to AM was needed for group balance, but something is wrong with the Rad set, because it was very much dependant on AM's effect on the hero in order to function on an equal level to other Defenders. Now with AM not filling the role it did, Rads are not competitive.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree with this assessment. AM may well have been too enhancing to a group, but without it, the Rad defenders are sorely lacking. Radiation emission is already one of the power pools that has many next-to-useless powers.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know I'd sure like an up front answer whether or not stamina is being looked at for "balancing." Otherwise I'll skip the rad powerset entirely and just pick up stamina like 90% of the rest of the population.


[/ QUOTE ]
There is not present plan to modify Stamina. It takes 14 levels, and 2 powers to unlock stamina. Then it takes 2 DO enhancements for Staminas END Recovery buff to be as effective for one player as AM gives to your whole team. Yes it is Auto, but it stil does not give all the other buffs AM does.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Geko, much appreciate it. Will scrap my radiation controller and try another secondary set and pick up stamina. Others may like strong and occasional powers, but I'd rather have weaker and permanent or almost permanent. Just personal preference I guess, but I can't stand powers with long timers.

[Ex_Libris]

AM = unusable.

Haste = nearly so.
_______________

Why do devs think downtime is fun? I certainly don't. Being able to use all your powers in a fight (strategically) is cool. Helping your teammates is cool. When your powers cycle at an extremely high rate, you can't use them (obviously).

Do I get to choose a new powerset now or do I keep playing the same now-gimped design for the next two weeks? I was planning on playing this for months more before the nerf and now I'm just wishing I could get my money back -- it seems a cynical calculation to do a nerf on this scale JUST after people buy your product/it gets reviewed.

Do you actually enjoy just leveling over and over again when your character is nerfed (in short, do you actually play this game)?

Have you quit other games because of similar things happening to a character you put time and effort into? Quite a few people do.

Lots of us started CoH because other MMORPG's gave us this kind of thing over and over and you seemed different. Lots of us have now cancelled our subscriptions (mine was formerly for several months) because practices like this make it appear that you aren't.

I just want the game I actually paid for back. That's what it takes for me, and those like me, to resubscribe.

[Ex_Libris]

Geko just said AM was going to be adjusted. I use Hasten and don't find it useless. It effectively adds 2 recharge SO's to all my powers and hasten itself can be enhanced to be almost always on.

[Ninja_Squirrel]

[ QUOTE ]
I see nothing wrong with Rad Blast and RAd Emmision END cost. It is comperable to all other sets, and identicle to their counterparts on others sets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quick Summary: I don't think that the usage levels of Rad powers are equal to the usage levels of the equivalents in other Defender primary sets, and the bias is leading to higher overall end usage under field conditions.

*****

Hmm, interesting. Experience has suggested otherwise. Maybe the low end usage powers in Rad Primary are underused for some reason, leading to a tendancy towards using a lot of high end usage powers? Running Ennervating Field and Radiation Infection simoultaneously while attacking is pretty much standard fare for a Rad Primary, and that will kill your endurance in no time flat, in fact I can't even solo a blue con minion and a white con lieutenant (they were Tsoo, standard ninja type and an Ancestor Spirit) without running out of endurance half way through the fight, and taking more than a negligible amount of damage.

I'll keep playing Adam Smasher, and pay closer attention to how I stack up against other Defenders, it might be just perception, but the experience is pretty common from the people I've talked to.


Also, I don't think AM is better than Stamina. I'm trying to find the hard numbers to calculate, but the fact that, unenhanced, AM is only running about 22% of the time offsets its approximate 30-something percent advantage in terms of end regen. Better to have a less effective power that's always on than a slightly more effective power you barely get to use. I know the hard numbers are out there somewhere to do the calculations, I just can't seem to find them. I suppose that once you are using SOs, the higher base regen on AM would drive a sizable wedge between it and Stamina in terms of peak effectiveness, but the downtime is very unwelcome, I prefer my power to be consistent rather than spiking erratically.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I actualy had that, and accidently edited it out. But that is a very significant part of the power. But that sorta is my point. AoE END REcovery is very powerfull. Only Emapthy has another AoE Recovery boost, and its the second to last power and has a 500 second recahrge. Nothing is more powerful than END. It is probably more important than HP. That is what makes AM so powerfull, and why its recharge was increased. Other defenders dont have that advantage. It was unbalanced. But again, the RT tie will be reduced, but not to the way to used to be.


[/ QUOTE ]
I feel like Rad defenders are being punished because thier buff comes at lvl 2 and empaty defenders get thier buff at level 18.
I can get to lvl 18 in a week of play, so that to me makes no difference.
Recovery Aura is like having 5 or 6 Am's on at once, no matter what you can't dent your end pool. With AM on all the time I still cratered my end pool every single fight. I was on the way up the fitness pool to get more end because AM was not nearly enough.
Right now AM is on a longer timer than Recovery Aura. AM is not near the buff that Recovery Aura is. Even if you take into account the extra damage and all the other stuff AM gives, the damage output of the team is far greater with end recovery on than with AM.
Rad defenders (I have a lvl 21) need the End to even function, I was able to keep AM up all the time before patch and I didnt feel it was anymore powerfull than say hurricane and steamy mist from the storm set. The storm and force feild defenders can keep their powers up non stop and the bonuses to the team are always availble. AM should be a toggle or revert back. It should not stack with another AM either, thats the only time it starts getting out of hand.
AM is a MINOR buff in many things. There is Nothing Major about the buff.
Defenders pay 25% more to blast for 35% less damage than a blaster. Not having the one single buff Rad gets availble seriously gimps that AT. I tried to play mine and gave up. The end costs are just too high, I stand around and watch while everyone else plays. Many Rad defenders are Rad/Rad and the Rad attacks are very low damage and low end cost. Rad defenders who took another secondary run out of End so fast its pathetic.
When you compare all the other defender AT's benifits that can be availble all the time to Rads AM which is only 4 times an hour it's clear something is very wrong.
AM is the Backbone of Rad defenders, buff and debuff. Without the buff half the Rad defender is missing.
If I cast slow, one ball lighting and 2 heals thats my entire end pool right there. As a Rad defender thats 120 points of healing at lvl 21 and about 50-80 aoe damage and a slow that wears off and wont take accuacy enhancements.
The best buff is enervating feild but that stops all end recovery due to its high cost of toggle. So if I toss 2 debuffs, one ball lighting and heal 2 times I am out of end and not getting any more till I turn off enervating feild.
At lvl 21 many fights can last 4-10 minutes (like the Tsoo, darn sorrcers(great coding btw)). In fights like those without AM running on me my team would be better served by anyother AT. This is wrong. My whole guild now shuns Rad defenders and everyone who had the Rad set defender or controller has rerolled. Everyone agrees anything else is better and more fun.

[_Pax_]

Moving Hasten to the last power in the Super Speed set makes more sense than reducing the effectiveness of the power. I suggest to the devs that the END cost be moved upfront (not after the power expires) and it's time be reduced to 5 minute recharge. That'll give us 2 on/3 off without ENH. 30+ level heroes should be able to keep it running 24/7 if that's their hero design.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
I see nothing wrong with Rad Blast and RAd Emmision END cost. It is comperable to all other sets, and identicle to their counterparts on others sets.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the fact that Defenders are just plain weak? I'd be happier if you made AM single target than make it a situational group buff. No other AT *needs* the buff, to be honest. Watching a Blaster outperform me by such a vast amount that I wonder why I even bother using any power except Enervating Field isn't what I call "fun". When I say outperform, I'm talking the damage I do, the additional damage I empower others to do, and the damage I heal/prevent vs. their damage. I'm not even in the ballpark compared to Full Auto and Trip Mine, let alone the rest of the AR/Devices sets.

I'm not saying go nerf Blasters, but I was simply stunned on Monday to find out that DEFENDERS got hit with the nerf bat. As if doing only 65% of blaster damage in our secondary AND being the only AT who pays 25% more End for every single power in the secondary wasn't bad enough...

I realize this probably comes across as a "grass is greener" post, but I already played Blaster in beta. I found there to be basically no challenge in the game, and I wanted to play an AT which was more suited to a group. I was content was my abilities, both solo and in a group, until the patch hit this week even though I knew that my powers paled in comparison to pretty much anyone else but a Scrapper's. Now I just feel like an idiot for changing my mind about what AT to play in release.

[Ex_Libris]

I love the game and have no issues with the changes from the last patch, :D
But this caught my eye :confused:

[ QUOTE ]
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement is rubbing me wrong, Ive been sitting here for about a half hour trying to state my feelings on this one, yet cant find the right words to not offend anyone.

It just feels like your saying, I will listen to what the mass's want, but just because most of the player base "most of the people paying to play' wants something, i wont give it to them. No compromises, Just a flat out Your out of Luck

Then its followed by,

[ QUOTE ]
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you do this by denying what the magority of the people playing the game want?

Im sure im just reading your post incorrectly and appoligize in advance, just would love some insight into this.

[Xurbax]

Geko wrote:
[ QUOTE ]
For those of you who were in Beta, you know I always do my best to listen to the community, as does the rest of the Cryptic team. As always, we are all listening and watching. Nothing is permanent in an MMP. New features will be added, and things will change. Not every change will make your Hero more powerful, but it is our goal to make it more fun. Those are not always the same things. It is not fun if it is not challenging (that is, easy is not always fun).

[/ QUOTE ]

The changes, I feel, are acceptable, especially if you're re-evaluating them and there's not a finality about them...

What I feel is unacceptable is the manner in which they are implemented. Your recent changes have left many customers in a position where their primary characters are substantially gimped. They wouldn't be if they could shift powers, slot layout, and/or enhancements around -- at no influence cost (which implies full-value sell-back, else it does cost) or time/effort cost to them -- but that's not been granted to them. This gives people one of 5 options (excluding combinations, thereof):
Tough, deal with it
Re-roll and re-level a character now that the dev changes have made what they were playing no longer fun to play
Grind through with the "gimped" version of their characters long enough to scrape up the influence necessary to change their enhancement loadouts or acquire slots to place into things that need them (that didn't prior to the dev changes)
Grumble a lot on the forums and do nothing
Grumble a lot on the forums and unsubscribe


None of these seems to be promising options for you to leave your customers. I've asked before and I must ask again: Why is it some of your customers are being punished for Cryptic/NCSoft's mistakes?

It is my firm opinion that:
<ul type="square"> It should not cost a character influence to adjust for one of your after-the-fact changes.
It should not cost a customer time/effort to adjust for one of your after-the-fact changes.
A means should be provided for the customer to right whatever s/he feels has negatively impacted his/her character at the time the dev-induced, after-the-fact change goes into the game (i.e. at login)
[/list]

This would seem to be the path to keeping your customers happy. And yet, it's not done. The changes went in with no means provided for the customer to react short of the ones listed, earlier.

Does that seem fair to you? If so, why? If not, what is being done about it? And if it's going to cost the customer time/effort and/or his/her characters influence, how do you justify that (short of failure to provide a complete adjustment solution that allows both Cryptic to make adjustments and customers to adjust in response)?

I ask these things because many people put time, effort, and planning into their characters. When you shift something that breaks synergies they planned upon (using available information and their own testing) -- and fail to provide a means for people to adjust to your shift -- you are effectively rendering their time/effort pointless.

I look forward to your response...

-- Xurbax

P.S. I'm someone who agonizes for 2 hours over how to apportion 3 slots within my progression -- merely to try to achieve a desired effect (not necessarily a more powerful one, either). And let's just say that the Hasten change has my character very broken. It wouldn't be if I could alter slot layouts or alter enhancement loadout at no cost -- but I can't. I'm stuck with re-rolliing or 4-6 levels of grinding in this gimped state, minimum, to rectify the issue; and I certinaly do not have the 300k-400k influence it'd take to re-config all my enhancements. I personally have a problem with this state of affairs... I feel punished, for a mistake that certainly wasn't mine...

[Ex_Libris]

geko said:

"About AM. I hope it has not gone unnoticed that AM is a good buff. It buffs your attack speed AND your run speed AND your fly speed AND your damage output AND protects you from sleep, hold and immobilize. 2 rad defenders could keep this buff on the team permanently. Even 1 could do the same thing wiht a few recharge enhancements. That really is too much buff time for an AoE buff that is this powerful. Again, I negelcted to account for the fact that AM hasted itself, so that added to the problem. We will probably reduce the RT time on it a bit. I am not happy with how long it is now, but it was too fast before."

a few recharge enhancers? 6 green SOs doesnt qualify as a few then i guess. because you CANNOT keep this power on non stop. with 6 green SOs you have 1 minute 47 seconds after effect ends and recast is available.

this is what is bothering many of us. we were told hasten can be recast with a 14.1 second downtime with 6 SOs. this is also untrue, hasten has a base recharge of 10 minutes, not 9 minutes. now you are telling us a "few" recharge enhancers will allow a rad user to "keep this buff on the team permanently". well this is simply untrue. im not accusing you of lying, but its obvious you are wrong.

now the real crux of the issue. most of us that were "nerfed" or "balanced" dont really mind the power changes. we mind that we are STUCK with these powers we would NOT have taken if during picking them they acted as they do now. i for one am out 6 slots and 2 powers that i could really use elsewhere but cant now.

[Grey_Bishop]

This is long; I’ll put the tech stuff up front. I still can’t believe how much you guys respond to the community. Geko, please read later if you can. -GB

• Hasten should be the level 20 power in the Speed set. Replace it with a defense toggle (and get rid of the weird tornado thing).

• Long recharge timers are more frustrating than reduced effect, especially when we can modify the power later.

• Strip all other effects off of AM, and let us buff the Endurance regeneration of our party, all the time (at low levels).

• Don’t make powers, even really good powers, dependant on 6 of the best enhancements that game can offer just to use them frequently.

I was beginning to worry the DEVs were going to ignore AM in the hopes it would fade away.

Forgive us Geko, many of us still have scars from one or two SOE games where things like this happened, and we were told to toughen up, or walk it off.

Other than the fact you guys said Hasten was working as intended, I have no serious beef with Hasten getting the big nerf in timer recharge. Honestly I only ever used it on my Defenders, to get heals off faster, and reduce the timer on AM. It should be made the level 20 power, as it is the holy grail of the Speed set. Most people never take tornado; you’d make the Speed freaks happier if you put a defense toggle in the line instead, like many other movement powers give.

I think I can explain to you why people abhor long recharge times Geko. It seems to be the only aspect of the game you have a hard time understanding from a player standpoint.

It like getting the nice computer for Christmas that you had been wanting for so long and then finding out that you can only play with it on Wednesday's. You can earn the right to play with it more often, but still it sits there, taunting you to use it.
Hasten lets you use the computer (used to) Sunday through Wednesday, and with recharge reducing enhancements, let you use the Computer all the time.

The end result being you could use what you had, simple as that.

It is something you have had a hard time understanding from the point I joined the game and saw the recharge timer on Temp. Invulnerability (pre-toggle). You guys had good reasons for what you did, but the power still didn't work often enough to be depended upon. The same arguments apply for any buffing power in this game.

Endurance in a group is by far and away the most important thing in the game, absolutely no argument from me.

Most Rad AM users will agree you could strip every other recovery component from the power if you wished, as long as we could provide this one, extremely important service to the community. Personally, I would even be ok with it not affecting me anymore, as long as it could affect my group.

You've seen allot of panic posts up recently, some have been from me. It's because many of us grew up with some old war-horse MMO's and quite frankly they hid behind the user’s agreement, and just did whatever they wanted, as long as the beaten, addicted players would play just a little longer, or TAKE longer, to play the game.

When we got here, Utopia. DEVs talked to us, and responded to our data. This in and of itself almost frightened me: It just seemed too good to be true (the level of interaction).

I was stoked. Two weeks into live play I had figured out the best way to help just about any team. I focused on the line (Tankers and Scrappers) because they have it the hardest in the beginning from my perception.

I even made a guide so others could use my base template.

24 hours later, the character's main purpose in life had been removed from the game, until I hit level 22, and could slot 6 SO enhancements into the power, just for timer recharges.

No DEV explanation, and a lot of quiet air on the subject from the DEV team, and suddenly I'm getting SOE flashbacks. I'm hearing ugly, ghostly words like, "Vision."

Hopefully this will explain some of the panic you may have seen in the last few days.

As for AM, take out every other effect, and give us an Endo regen we can keep up on our party. Make it single target like early FF powers if you need to. That way FF defenders keep a team up, RAD keeps them kicking, and Empathy keeps them alive.

[Ex_Libris]

an addendum to my previous post.

AM with 6 green SO = 1m47s downtime.
AM with 6 green SO AND hasten = 1m10s downtime.

[Ex_Libris]

I am very happy with Geko's posts of information and reasons. I'm not sure I agree with them all, but what was said was honest and far better than not hearing anything at all. I also cannot deny that some long thought has been lurking behind the hard decisions that the Devs have made.

That said and acknowledged, I also have to agree that the Radiation Metabolism buff needs adjusting, badly. Please consider reducing the strength of the buff overall in whatever format is acceptable, and drop the timer down to about 4 or 5 minutes.

A power that you can use for every serious fight, one right after another, is fun. It's a psychological thing. I don't know how to sum it up any better than that.

As for Hasten, it sounds like you did what you had to do in comparing what the older version of Hasten could do for a character against what careful slotting of recharge enhancements could do for a character. If Hasten was making recharge enhancements obsolete and inefficient, which I think it did, then a change had to happen.

As long as the math stacks up to Hasten being a usable alternative rather than a waste of a power, then the right thing was done.

Iduno also had a very good list of concerns and facts backing them. Thank you, Iduno and thank you Geko.

[Dahcism]

i want to say one more thing. i was one of the people pestering geko for a response on the AM issue. i did not believe i deserved a response, but im glad it came. i never denied that it was a great buff, and im satisfied with the reasoning.


once again, kudos to geko and the rest of the devs. you guys communicate with the community way more than anyone could expect you to.

[Ex_Libris]

these posts can and will go on and on....

What it comes down to is any FOTM will get mashed. Scrappers and radiation def/cont took it this round as their "need to have to be competative" powers got spanked. Blasters and tanks should be next since mid range (insert above classes here) had there functionality cut due to additional down time and lowered productivity. I'm sure when the blasters start getting there recharge times extended on their mid to high range attacks this will start all over again. I mean all these things were balanced in beta right? Well since scrappers were "balanced" allowing for hasten I'll enjoy the soon to be smack coming to all the blasters that can't figure out why having a power with 6 DO enhancements after patch is worse then the power was unenhanced pre patch.

Guess when they need help killing yellow non LTs they might just see the world without there rosey little glasses. The hasten/AM nerf was a kick to the teeth of all mid to low range charecters. The skills are worthless till high level yet there level 8 or lower skills.

I went from soloing lonely orange bosses to getting my *** handed to me by an orange LT. why? well my damage out put doesn't keep up with what i deal out and i only heal 1/2 as often. Since an orange boss is the end of a solo mission i would assume i should be able to actually i don' tknow solo him? There was something some where about this game being soloable wasn't there? And no i didn't have any End left after those orange bosses i ususally had to wait for end to recharge enough to heal. For END beign the end all "more immportant then HP" (Geko) Hasten helped you burn more of it I rarely finishe da fight with END and i'm a regen scrapper with 3 green Trainers as i cant seen to get a DO for that.

well thats my 3 am rant. I'm not overly enjoying my charecters lately but at least i get a good laugh out of the boardes......

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
What it comes down to is any FOTM will get mashed. Scrappers and radiation def/cont took it this round as their "need to have to be competative" powers got spanked.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand this part of your post... Scrappers and Defenders definitely weren't a FOTM, ever. Almost every scrapper I've played with switched to Blaster instead, and aside from myself, one Kinetics guy (who frequently says he hates it because he spends all his time casting Speed Boost over and over and over, but doesn't want to reroll), and a couple Empaths, none of our Defenders are left either.

And that was before the nerfs to Hasten and AM. Talk about kicking people when they're down.

Now, scrappers are the class of choice for the bored L40s who are waiting for the rest of us, and want to play something that isn't like turning on God mode when they log in. Defenders, well... apparently no one is *that* bored yet. ;)

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
geko said:

this is what is bothering many of us. we were told hasten can be recast with a 14.1 second downtime with 6 SOs. this is also untrue, hasten has a base recharge of 10 minutes, not 9 minutes. now you are telling us a "few" recharge enhancers will allow a rad user to "keep this buff on the team permanently". well this is simply untrue. im not accusing you of lying, but its obvious you are wrong.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know where you are getting this 10 minute number but I just made 2 characters and powered them up to get hasten. I checked on both of them and got 9 minutes with no enhancers from the time I hit the button til the time I could hit it again. I activated the power 3 times on each character in 27 minutes. Where are you getting this 10 minute recharge time?

[Ex_Libris]

base number then may actually be 9, thanks for the added info. the reason we have been bandying the 10 minutes about is because the calculations for recahrgers is off from geko's info.

it does fit a 10 minute recharge though. read geko's post, or rei_momo's or do a search for hasten recharge times. many of us are doing some pretty in depth tests (at our own expense of fun and influence) to hammer this stuff out.

[Ex_Libris]

Wow what a cool post Geko! And people can see why we love the Lizard ;)

[Hearthfire]

Thank you Geko!

Say, is it a bad thing when you go to the pet store and look at the gekos and start to think that that might be a nice pet? :eek: (Disclaimer: I was there to buy turtle food.)

[Ex_Libris]

Ok not that all the people here testing this are gonna see it but I just found out some interesting information through testing. When testing the recharge time of hasten DO NOT leave your mouse pointer over the icon to activate it. If you do it give a false reading of when it is ready to be reused. The icon will stay greyed out looking longer than it actually is. However it is not 10 minutes it is 9 minutes.

[Ex_Libris]

ROFL... Geko's posts are truely a breeze of fresh humorous air in these our usual worlds of dev-spins. Only guy who dared to post fun stuff like this that I remember was Stormy in AC ;)

I'm also sure that Geko knows that his great work would be made a TON easier if this level/class based game had a freaking RESPEC in...

[Shikamaru_NA]

[ QUOTE ]

Now, scrappers are the class of choice for the bored L40s who are waiting for the rest of us, and want to play something that isn't like turning on God mode when they log in. Defenders, well... apparently no one is *that* bored yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, it's possible that some Scrapper builds are overpowered, I have no idea about that, but most Scrapper builds are hardly overpowered, including most of those that included Hasten in some form. Are there scrappers at 40? Probably some MA/Invlunerabilty Scrappers or something, but I doubt there are more Scrappers up there than Blasters.

Don't go spreading unfounded rumors like that, it just even further throws off the AT balancing efforts.

[Ex_Libris]

So I was correct in saying the AM increase was a knee jerk reaction and unfairly lumped in with hasten. AM haste increase is about half of what Hasten and its not available to everyone like Hasten was.

That being said your post "glossed" over the reasons. Sure its a good buff, sure it has many + elements. But look at the Radiation line hard and tell me we dont need it. Maybe fix the stacking, or decrease the %'s or take out some of the useless + elements such as fly.

I say either correct it properly or leave it the way it was, increasing the recharge timer until you could figure out what to do with it was lousy.

[Dr_Void]

I'm a late poster to this thread but having just read through it, I again am very pleased with the Devs here. Having played EQ for over 4 years now, still going, it is VERY refreshing to hear real information straight from the horses mouth, so to speak, than having to scour the 'Net and find out what was changed/added/removed/upgraded/Nerfed/etc... .

For those that haven't read the EULA of this or any other online game, it does state that content is subject to change. An online game is not Static! It is Dynamic! It can and will change as needed.

I look at it as a learning process a lot like real life. Real life can and will change and no matter how much you complain about it or point out that it was unfair to you, there is not much you can do about it but adapt, learn, and then go on.

COH is a very good game. It is not nor will it ever be perfect. Ask yourself this simple question. Do you have fun playing it? If you do, keep on playing. If not, leave it.

It really is that simple.

Feedback about the game and its changes to the Devs is good. Constant complaining is not.

And a personal thanks to Geko, Aura, and others for keeping the COH gaming communtiy at large informed of what is going on. Good and bad. ;)

Fight crime but have fun doing it!

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
Hasten needs to be on ALL the time, and it must do so with few enhancements. If you do not feel it's balanced as is, I have a thread going that lists possible compromises, but Hasten MUST be constantly active, regardless of the performance costs. The power is not useless, nbut it is simply not worth it as it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm.. put down the crack pipe and seek professional help guy. Just because scrappers "are fast" like you said and attack fast, that DOES NOT mean that you should be able to constantly without any pause at all keep attacking that fast and with that much damage without any drawbacks at all.

It's absurd to say that Hasten must be available all the time.

[Kerberos]

Thank you Geko. Just... thank you :)

[TimeStopper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Defenders and controllers rely on AM for the one attribute you failed to mention, endurance regen. How bout removing the run speed, flight speed, damage add, and then reduce the time recharge back some ?

Read thru the 30 posts on people complaining about the AM adjustment, i dont see a single one complaining about loss of run speed, flight speed, or damage increase. Pretty much every thread is the loss of endurance regen for normal fighting, ans some for the haste effect . Its now used only for a boss fight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I actualy had that, and accidently edited it out. But that is a very significant part of the power. But that sorta is my point. AoE END REcovery is very powerfull. Only Emapthy has another AoE Recovery boost, and its the second to last power and has a 500 second recahrge. Nothing is more powerful than END. It is probably more important than HP. That is what makes AM so powerfull, and why its recharge was increased. Other defenders dont have that advantage. It was unbalanced. But again, the RT tie will be reduced, but not to the way to used to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually... If you look at the relative power costs, other defenders already do have the advantage of AM 'built in'. Radiation Buff/Debuff has two of the most expensive toggles in the game, toggles which have to be kept up for multiple rounds and cannot have their END costs predicted ahead of time. Slots which are dedicated to END reduction can not be used for other purposes, such as making the power more effective.

As such, I believe that Radiation Buff/Debuff users are the victims of their own 'better than average' buff.

[Ex_Libris]

geko-

I hate to sound like a broken record, but you have not yet commented on the findings of many players concerning the new Hasten timer. We all appreciate your willingness to break down your reasoning to us, and many of us would like to hear what your investigation of the new Hasten has turned up.

[ez_coh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Defenders and controllers rely on AM for the one attribute you failed to mention, endurance regen. How bout removing the run speed, flight speed, damage add, and then reduce the time recharge back some ?

Read thru the 30 posts on people complaining about the AM adjustment, i dont see a single one complaining about loss of run speed, flight speed, or damage increase. Pretty much every thread is the loss of endurance regen for normal fighting, ans some for the haste effect . Its now used only for a boss fight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I actualy had that, and accidently edited it out. But that is a very significant part of the power. But that sorta is my point. AoE END REcovery is very powerfull. Only Emapthy has another AoE Recovery boost, and its the second to last power and has a 500 second recahrge. Nothing is more powerful than END. It is probably more important than HP. That is what makes AM so powerfull, and why its recharge was increased. Other defenders dont have that advantage. It was unbalanced. But again, the RT tie will be reduced, but not to the way to used to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haven't read the rest of this thread yet, but, Geko, my opinion of you has gone up considerably now that you have explained a little as to why AM got the change it did.

I am sure most people really just wanted some sort of appeasement to know why something got nerfed. What may seem an obvious reason to you is not always obvious to someone else.

Thumbs up.

[Ex_Libris]

On the AM change, bottom-line, I'm sitting around waiting a LOT more of the time for my endurance to regenerate than I was pre-patch. Sitting around waiting just isn't fun. And having the base, unenhanced recharge at 11:15 for AM is simply too much, but it appears from Geko's posts that will change at some point (albeit not back to the original 5 minutes).

Thanks for the update, G. Hoping for AM re-changes soonish rather than laterish.

[Ex_Libris]

mhoram, thats just the point.

the game was fun, the nerfs came, the game was less fun.

can the people saying this change was nessacary actually say the game was less fun for them when hasten worked as it did before? why? how did hasten ruin the game for you? and how has its change made the game better? so far all i see is game before = ppl having fun. game after nerf = lotsa ppl having less fun.

[SuperBBB]

Geko - great post. If you and the rest of the team can keep up this excellent level of communication with us players, CoH has a very bright future, imho ;)

Please, though, don't listen to the knee-jerk whines and complaints of those players who clearly have no grasp of even the most basic concepts of game balance and game design, no matter how loudly they may shout... And try to remember, when struggling through the complaints, that the majority of people who are happy with the game and any changes you make won't be posting - they'll be busy having fun playing... :D

[Vindicator_NA]

Geko, you da MAN! *loudly applauds one of his favorite devs ever!*

[Gator]

Geko, thanks bigtime for all the replies regarding the recent changes.

I was wondering if you and the other devs have considered some of the other proposed AM 'fixes'? For example: reducing the damage increase, runspeed increase, etc while keeping the endurance recovery as is. Also, reducing the stackability (eliminating or having additional 'stacks' be less effective), making self only not AoE, etc.

I've probably got roughly 10 hours of gametime under my belt since the patch, and still have huge problems with running out of endurance almost immediately (lvl18 illusion/radiation controller).

Thanks again, and if you have the time for another reply it's greatly appreciated.

Gator

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
I see nothing wrong with Rad Blast and RAd Emmision END cost. It is comperable to all other sets, and identicle to their counterparts on others sets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rad blast is fine, but lets take a look at rad emission

Radiant aura 26.5 end.. thats over 1/4 for a weak heal allright its a group heal but its much less than o2 boost or any empathy

Rad inf and enervate are fine

Mutation 56!!!!
Lingering Rad 22.5

Chocking cloud is hard to use and fallout is useless but their end is reasonable

Em pulse 30

About half their powers take 1/4 or More end to use. It might look fine on paper when you compare it to other classes Def prim
but in reality having so many end hogs in one spot really kills it without Am running near constant.

Please consider this when readjusting it, right now rad em is almost unplayable. This is a Primary for many characters having the skill take so long to recharge for something they are so dependant upon is very hard on those people has led to many character deletions and I have even heard a few times groups saying they didnt want rad defenders any more cause they jjust run out of end then leech exp.

[Marlowe_Faustus]

[ QUOTE ]
I see nothing wrong with Rad Blast and RAd Emmision END cost. It is comperable to all other sets, and identicle to their counterparts on others sets.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are saying that defenders don't get a 25-30% end boost on their blast sets or that all secondaries cost 25-30% more end?

If you are saying that defenders don't pay more end when did that change happen? The extra end cost is in the Game Guide which means it was true at one point. If it isn't true now when did the change happen? I never saw any patch note about it. Also experience is showing that there is a higher end cost. If you are saying that there isn't a higher end cost for defenders then could you check the numbers?

If you just mean it Rad Blast is eqivalent to other defender blast power sets with the extra end cost then could you answer why it, the extra end cost, was put in?

[Ex_Libris]

Geko, thank you very much for the response. Your willingness to come talk to us is admirable.

Regarding the AM changes specifically:

1) It is the only buff power in a buff/debuff power set; it should be an incredibly good buff. It should make people go "wow".

2) The net effect of this change is that I have more downtime. I sit around waiting for endurance to come back more often. I have fewer fights per hour. I have less fun per hour. More downtime is not fun.

3) I wasn't a super-fast levelling machine before, and I doubt very many Defenders and Controllers were (well, maybe some Controllers after they get pets). The ultimate standard for whether a power is unbalanced should be whether it causes people to level at abnormally high speeds. Am I wrong, and your data mining shows a flood of Defenders and Controllers steamrolling to 40 because of their super duper AM buff?

4) Making a power have a super long refresh time is much worse for player morale than changing its effect. Right now, I can use the power so rarely that I sometimes forget to use it at all. The magnitude of the effect simply does not justify that kind of recharge timer. I'd suggest reducing the benefits in exchange for making it useable more often, except that I don't think the current timer is at all justified, so I don't feel we should have to give up effects to get a reasonable timer back from you. :(

[Civil_Liberty]

I agree. I have absolutely no problem with my rad blast costs. They seem comparable with any other character I have. As long as I don't go buff/heal crazy in a battle, I can pretty much blast until I run dry and feel satisfied. :)

[ QUOTE ]
I see nothing wrong with Rad Blast and RAd Emmision END cost. It is comperable to all other sets, and identicle to their counterparts on others sets.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Civil_Liberty]

Oh cool. I didn't know precisely how good Stamina was or was not. I have a scrapper friend who's drooling to unlock that power.

[ QUOTE ]
There is not present plan to modify Stamina. It takes 14 levels, and 2 powers to unlock stamina. Then it takes 2 DO enhancements for Staminas END Recovery buff to be as effective for one player as AM gives to your whole team. Yes it is Auto, but it stil does not give all the other buffs AM does.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Marlowe_Faustus]

[ QUOTE ]
...who clearly have no grasp of even the most basic concepts of game balance and game design, no matter how loudly they may shout...

[/ QUOTE ]

So its game balance that I spend half my time sitting around waiting for end to regen? Do you spend half your time sitting around waiting for end?

[Ex_Libris]

Thanks Geko! This post is very timely and I just wanted to say I think you guys are doing an excellent job of responding and listening.

[Belabras]

[ QUOTE ]
Geko is officially my new hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mine too. You da man (er, lizard) Geko!

[strangefamous]

Well Geko,

Thanks for the posts Geko! I have a couple major concerns, problems whatever you want to call them. Basically my Fun is gone and here are the things that led up to it.

1. Name reservation - Stated we would get to reserve our names. Its not the fact that I didn't get my name, its the whole process that inhibited me from getting my name. Very Poorly implemented.

2. 3-day Headstart - You give pre-order members a 3 day headstart, but then they have 2 days of downtime (or more) trying to find the game. No grace period given to people who have ALREADY paid you. Very Poor customer service. I found my copy at a Best Buy the day after so I wasn't one that had to wait, but that doesn't mean they aren't there.

3. Uncalled for nerfs- Hasten I can understand, Fire imps understood, Accelerated metabolism NOT A JUSTIFIED CHANGE. My charactor is level 21, and hasn't been played for more than 15 minutes a time after the recent patch. Anyone that has Accelerated Metabolism is now gimped. Not that the buff itself is bad, but the fact that you could have something else there, a heal an attack ANYTHING that isn't a 8+ minute recharge.

4. Results of nerf - Well this is where my distaste for the 3 day headstart came from. I was sure to pay you for the preorder so that I could start my character early, make sure I had everything how I wanted for release. I understand powers change in MMO's, notice I said change not nerfed into uselessness entirely. I got a 3 day headstart and a 1 MONTH SETBACK. I'm so very glad I bought the preorder because I really needed the cardboard box? Really tho there was nothing in that box that was even remotely interesting.

I wonder did SOE buy Cryptic Studios? I feel like I'm getting treated the same. I have numerous petitions I've yet to recieve any kind of response to, I'm being nerfed 10% of my total powers. I don't feel like I'm fighting crime anymore as much as fighting poor developer descisions;uncalled for nerfs and fanbois and whiners all the same.


I really enjoyed this game, all thru beta and all month until the poor rollout of the last patch. No information given, no discussion of what the devs feel was overpowered or wasn't.

I don't want to leave this game, I really think there is fun to be had here. All in all I can't place full blame on the devs, most nerfs stem from the forums. Hell take a look at SWG.
I think that the best thing that could happen to an MMO would be the absence of forums.

Now before you tell me to leave and the game will be better without me this is FEEDBACK. Its presented in a civil manner. I am a paying customer and I feel its not only my right, but its also my duty to tell the developers why I'm probably done at the end of this month. The fun is gone the fear is here, Please please please bring back fun!

[Mistral55]

Thanks for the response Geko, dev feedback is always a good sign whatever is said :)

However, as for changing the game to make it more fun, do you really think that the Rad defenders and the people who had the pre-nerf Hasten are having more, or less fun in game these days? :p

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Geko is officially my new hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mine too. You da man (er, lizard) Geko!

[/ QUOTE ]

Geko for president!!!

[WingedKagouti_NA]

[ QUOTE ]
? Strip all other effects off of AM, and let us buff the Endurance regeneration of our party, all the time (at low levels).

[/ QUOTE ]
When Empathy Defenders/Controllers can't do that with Recovery Aura except possibly by using Hasten and a total of 12 S/O Recharge at +3 levels? I can't remember if it has a 120 or 90 seconds duration, you can reduce the recharge to about 120 seconds (if I'm using the correct formula and geko has given the correct numbers).

Besides the part of AM that will keep you alive when solo at the higher levels isn't so much the endurance regeneration as the status effect resistance. I wouldn't complain if AM lost the recharge bonus and had it's base timer lowered to 500 seconds (same as Recovery Aura) though.

[ QUOTE ]
? Don?t make powers, even really good powers, dependant on 6 of the best enhancements that game can offer just to use them frequently.

[/ QUOTE ]
If it's the only enhancement that power takes it should take 6 +3 S/O to reach maximum efficiency, otherwise it's possible to waste slots/enhancements. Hasten can be used frequently, but not kept always on, with 6 S/O even level Recharge.

[Green_Beam]

Glad to see AM will get a little faster. I have a pretty boring amount of downtime without it.

I personally don't find 120/720 skills very fun. I have no problem with powers I get at level 4 taking 20 levels to fully mature, but I want to be able to enjoy them in the interim.

Especially with Hasten, whos problem was that it only needed one extra enhancement slot, I would rather have seen its effectiveness reduced, not the percentage of up-time. Hasten could have been a toggle skill, and enhancers could have buffed its buff. This would bring it in line with the leadership buffs, but for recharge speed.

I don't understand why geko would say, "Other defenders dont have that advantage." The defenders are very different from each other, why should it be at all surprising that one defender skillset would have an advantage others do not? Isn't that WHY there are different defender skillsets?

[Ex_Libris]

"I see nothing wrong with Rad Blast and RAd Emmision END cost. It is comperable to all other sets, and identical to their counterparts on others sets."

Well, it's possible for Rad Emission's endurance costs to be comparable to similar powers in other sets ... and still be unbalanced and too big of an endurance drain.

Let me explain. A rad defender's bread-and-butter powers are his toggle targeted AOE debuffs, specifically Radiation Infection and Enervating Field. Now if I counted correctly, there are a grand total of six toggle targeted AOE primary powers in the game:

Snow Storm (storm defender): endurance cost 1.5 per tick
Hot Feet (fire controller): endurance cost 3.0
Telekinesis (mind controller): endurance cost 3.0
Radiation Infection (rad defender): endurance cost 1.0
Enervating Field (rad defender): endurance cost 3.0
Choking Cloud (rad defender): endurance cost 6.0

As you can see, fully half of the primary toggle targeted AOE powers in the game belong to rad defenders This raises a couple of possibilities.

First, perhaps the endurance costs for all or some of the toggle targeted AOE powers are too high, but only rad defenders have really focused on it because they are the ones with most of the toggle targeted AOE powers. (For what it's worth, my personal opinion is that Radiation Infection is fine-the low endurance cost makes up for the crazy long activation animation-but Enervating Field is too high. Don't know about Choking Cloud, because the huge endurance cost and the lukewarm player reviews have convinced me I don't want to take it.)

The other possibility is that the endurance cost of 3 for Hot Feet and Telekinesis is fine because they are the only toggle targeted AOE powers in their power sets ... but that 3 for Enervating Field is not so good because it's typically used in conjuction with with another endurance-sucking toggle power, Radiation Infection. For example, I will often Enervating Field the toughest mob, then when he's defeated immediately switch to Radiation Infection for the minions.

Now I can already hear the objections-"If using those two powers in succession is too draining, then don't do it! Use your other powers instead!" But really, what powers am I supposed to use in a fight? Here's what I have at the moment:

1. Radiation Infection and Enervating Field, the toggle debuffs.
2. Accelerate Metabolism. With the recharge rate upped, this is grayed out and unavailable more often than not. :)
3. Radiant Aura, a heal. This is costly, and I don't want to use it if I don't have to...it makes no sense to drain my endurance dry just to keep everyone at exactly 100%. So if things are going well, this is not terribly useful.
4. Mutate, a combat rez. Also very costly, and again, if things are going well, this is of no use to me (thank goodness.)
5. My blasts. But using my blasts is by definition also a huge endurance drain. Defender blasts not only do less damage than a blaster's blasts (which everyone agrees is as it should be), they also consume more endurance per point of damage than a blaster's blasts. Only defenders are subject to this extra endurance penalty on secondary powers: no other archetype has it. So using my blasts taps me out very quickly.

With the change in AM, as a teen-level rad defender about the only power I can use constantly in a fight that doesn't drain me dry is Brawl. ;)

Ediit: Whoops, on my list of toggle targeted AOE powers I forgot Darkest Night (cost 1.5).

[Zubey]

Thanks, Geko. I'm especially glad to see that you're considering making AM/Hasten a little more reasonable than they are now.

[IncaBoy]

Regardless of what happens with AM and haste, I firmly believe (and this is supported by a lot of what has been stated on this thread) that people that rad/rad defenders with AM/Haste are broken and should get a full respec.

Full respec code should be given top priority in development and made available for characters that get broken by 'Severe Nerfs'.

Click on the link in my sig for my argument and support of full respecs.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Now, scrappers are the class of choice for the bored L40s who are waiting for the rest of us, and want to play something that isn't like turning on God mode when they log in. Defenders, well... apparently no one is *that* bored yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, it's possible that some Scrapper builds are overpowered, I have no idea about that, but most Scrapper builds are hardly overpowered, including most of those that included Hasten in some form. Are there scrappers at 40? Probably some MA/Invlunerabilty Scrappers or something, but I doubt there are more Scrappers up there than Blasters.

Don't go spreading unfounded rumors like that, it just even further throws off the AT balancing efforts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you misread my post... I'm all for Scrappers getting some love from the devs, and even more so after the Hasten nerf.

What I said was that the bored L40s (mostly Blasters) are playing Scrappers because Scrappers are actually hard to play/underpowered, which is a total switch for them compared to their mains... :p

[longtime]

I think this game would be kinda silly, if you did not need 6 slots to max out a power. What would be the use of having 6 slots? I also think it is fair game to make it attractive to put other things in the slots as well rather than 6 of the same. If the power has only one enhancement then only when it get 6 top slots should it be the "best". As far as I can tell, this is part of the challenge of the game.

I deleted my Illussion/Rad controller due to the end problems.

I remade her to Illussion/Kenetics controller, oh well I can only give myself end now.

I also play a Dark/Rad defender. This build is one of the lower end builds that I have made. I have flagged a few powers to get end reducers and I am not using enduracne.

I found that controller/defender are slightly gimped due to the thou shall not do more damage than blasters. (Reminds of the thou stall not be able to tank better than a warrior). The controller set having the gimpiest powerset combos.

Gecko could you reconsider the thou shall not kill thing. I really would like a board moderate who is willing to kill for the gaming comunitee.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So, with that said, let me give you my 10 Commandments of Geko:
*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
*I will not be scared to be wrong.
*I will react as quickly as possible, but not sooner than needed.
*I will not be scared to be unpopular.
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.
*I will not reduce Accuracy.
*I will try my best to give you detailed information.
*I will make Statesman wash my car.

(well, 9 out of 10 aint bad)



[/ QUOTE ]



Why isn't this on there?

*I will not lie to the players

or

*I will be honest at all times regarding CoH game systems and mechanics


Obviously there are some things you aren't allowed to reveal, so the appropriate response would be "Not allowed to answer that". I think all rational people can accept that answer. I would hope people wouldn't ask for the why of it and just accept you have limits to what information you can dole out.

BUT

It is entirely unacceptable to say "100% working as intended, will not change" and then change it barely two weeks later. I think it is unacceptable to change it ever, without explaining the reasoning behind the change but that is just me.

Just please treat us better then you (Cryptic) did with the TF and nerf patch and I will resubscribe. I like this game, I plan to play it for a long time if I am convinced enough to resubscribe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cryptic has never lied to us. Not once. I've seen mistakes made, and corrections and revisions to those mistakes, but never outright lies.

They never said Hasten would not change. They said it was working as intended at the end of beta, and that it seemed to be balanced. They found this to be untrue, so they changed it. This isn't a lie of any sort.

If I gave you an unopened gallon of milk and said it should be fine, you would drink it yes? Then if it was sour, did I lie to you?
How was I to know?

How were they to know that Hasten was that broken before the end of beta? They didn't have the massive amount of players, and all the data that provides before that time.

Leave. Don't come back. I'm not going to miss you, nor is anyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for taking care of this for me, Teuxx, because I was about to break it all down on this guy---in far less polite terms. I just hope the Team can withstand this kind of outrageous accusation and innuendo (even in the face of their direct honesty!) and not change and become defensive and jaded.

GRRR

Geko and Team! Thanks for spelling all that out for those who have never interacted with you folks. Those of us who've been through beta and the old bboards already knew all this---it never had to be said. Keep up the awesome work; we do appreciate it.

Cal

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
So I was correct in saying the AM increase was a knee jerk reaction and unfairly lumped in with hasten. AM haste increase is about half of what Hasten and its not available to everyone like Hasten was.

That being said your post "glossed" over the reasons. Sure its a good buff, sure it has many + elements. But look at the Radiation line hard and tell me we dont need it. Maybe fix the stacking, or decrease the %'s or take out some of the useless + elements such as fly.

I say either correct it properly or leave it the way it was, increasing the recharge timer until you could figure out what to do with it was lousy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the reason that Rad Defenders *feel* so changed is that they are used to having a lot of endurance to burn. I'm 90% postive if I built my (dark/dark) Defender around having a lot more endurance, I'd have tweaked my powers to recharge *much* faster. As it is, that is the *last* thing I do and I can run out of endurance PDQ with just healing and having my AOE defense buff going with occasional blasts to debuff (while attacking).

(edit: Now that I think about it, the Rad Defender I was teamed with a day or so ago was wonder why my AOE heal was doing about 30% more than his. He asked me if I had speeded it up, which I said no. I went the maximize healing DO's at 15th level. Gotta get one more so I can have four on it pluss 2xDO accuracies.)

[Erratic]

[ QUOTE ]
About AM. I hope it has not gone unnoticed that AM is a good buff. It buffs your attack speed AND your run speed AND your fly speed AND your damage output AND protects you from sleep, hold and immobilize. 2 rad defenders could keep this buff on the team permanently. Even 1 could do the same thing wiht a few recharge enhancements.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most AM users don't seem to think it will be possible, even fully loaded out with recycle time reducers. Indeed, I had Hasten with 1 DO recycling faster than AM with 3.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...who clearly have no grasp of even the most basic concepts of game balance and game design, no matter how loudly they may shout...

[/ QUOTE ]

So its game balance that I spend half my time sitting around waiting for end to regen? Do you spend half your time sitting around waiting for end?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why, yes, my Dark Dark Defender does spend a lot of time regenerating my endurance. And I don't get a power that even allows me to get it back that is nearly that cool.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Defenders and controllers rely on AM for the one attribute you failed to mention, endurance regen. How bout removing the run speed, flight speed, damage add, and then reduce the time recharge back some ?

Read thru the 30 posts on people complaining about the AM adjustment, i dont see a single one complaining about loss of run speed, flight speed, or damage increase. Pretty much every thread is the loss of endurance regen for normal fighting, ans some for the haste effect . Its now used only for a boss fight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I actualy had that, and accidently edited it out. But that is a very significant part of the power. But that sorta is my point. AoE END REcovery is very powerfull. Only Emapthy has another AoE Recovery boost, and its the second to last power and has a 500 second recahrge. Nothing is more powerful than END. It is probably more important than HP. That is what makes AM so powerfull, and why its recharge was increased. Other defenders dont have that advantage. It was unbalanced. But again, the RT tie will be reduced, but not to the way to used to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Last night, this power was used on our team to defeat Dr Vahzilok---one of the longest battles I've yet experienced in the game (and this coming from beta where I had the same battle). The first attempt without it operating ended in complete defeat heh heh--and it was fun. The second attempt, the controller used it (I guess, I don't play a controller). We won---barely. It was an exciting fight. Not once did I hear any complaint from that controller about this power. He or she (not sure who was who as it was a pickup team) used it strategically, when it was most needed. It is not useless, I assure you---far from it. My point is, even AFTER the 'adjustment' , the power is still very much a deciding factor in super battles.

thanks
Cal

[Atomic_Woman]

[ QUOTE ]
Soon after launch, it quickly became clear that it was still too good. We neglected to consider that Hasten Hated itself, which was allowing players to keep it on all the time. I dont have a problem with it being on all the time, but I do have a problem with it being on all the time with only a handful of DO Enhancements. So we were wrong. It was not working as intended. Accelerate Metabolism was only adding to the problem. So we made a change. If needed, we will be happy to make another change.

About AM. I hope it has not gone unnoticed that AM is a good buff. It buffs your attack speed AND your run speed AND your fly speed AND your damage output AND protects you from sleep, hold and immobilize. 2 rad defenders could keep this buff on the team permanently. Even 1 could do the same thing wiht a few recharge enhancements. That really is too much buff time for an AoE buff that is this powerful. Again, I negelcted to account for the fact that AM hasted itself, so that added to the problem. We will probably reduce the RT time on it a bit. I am not happy with how long it is now, but it was too fast before.

[/ QUOTE ]

Geko, you are my new hero. Superdev! :cool:

If I thought I could do a decent geko-looking head, I'd make you a micro hero like poor Stuporman (http://s92592496.onlinehome.us/Files/COH/MicroHeroes/Stuporman_Micro.gif) here! :p

[IncaBoy]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the reason that Rad Defenders *feel* so changed is that they are used to having a lot of endurance to burn. I'm 90% postive if I built my (dark/dark) Defender around having a lot more endurance, I'd have tweaked my powers to recharge *much* faster. As it is, that is the *last* thing I do and I can run out of endurance PDQ with just healing and having my AOE defense buff going with occasional blasts to debuff (while attacking).

[/ QUOTE ]

Endurance to burn? No no, we needed AM to have enough endurance to subsist.

[Atomic_Woman]

[ QUOTE ]
Most AM users don't seem to think it will be possible, even fully loaded out with recycle time reducers. Indeed, I had Hasten with 1 DO recycling faster than AM with 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

He could, meaning pre-patch. Pre-patch, 3 SOs in AM = roughly 10 seconds of downtime.

Or, supposedly AM w/2 SOs + Hasten w/1 SO = one or the other always on. Although I never experience this one myself.

[Ex_Libris]

I agree AM does alot of things but i dont believe it should have changed any....I mean all your powers should get better and easier to use as you level or become a better hero. I understand you and your teamates should not be running around "super uber" but AM was not doing that at all. I am almost grouped with the same 4-5 guys everynight, and before the patch we were doing ok...not great but ok... we had a controler, tank, blaster and 2 defenders(myself included). I have to tell you we were not taking on things that were anymore then yellow or reds to us as the groups wouls squash us if we did not think strategically. (this included the use of AM). We were not "immune to all things", we were not getting "massive" damage added...and the only thing good about the run enchancment was we could bolt out of danger quicker. Finally no matter what anyone says the endurace buff was not enough to keep us all full...infact even with the BUFF we were all still running out of END before the fights were even over.....And before you say oh you can get the recharge time down to being able to stack...this may be so but not till you have it full of (SO) enchancments.And you dont get those till your higher up which makes it ok as you have worked your butt off to get to this level and should be able to come close to stacking your own BUFFs.

Sorry for grammar and spelling.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the reason that Rad Defenders *feel* so changed is that they are used to having a lot of endurance to burn. I'm 90% postive if I built my (dark/dark) Defender around having a lot more endurance, I'd have tweaked my powers to recharge *much* faster. As it is, that is the *last* thing I do and I can run out of endurance PDQ with just healing and having my AOE defense buff going with occasional blasts to debuff (while attacking).

[/ QUOTE ]

Endurance to burn? No no, we needed AM to have enough endurance to subsist.

[/ QUOTE ]

If Geko has stated that the endurance costs are within the same range as other defenders, then I can believe it is for the most part. Did you read what I actually said that it could be a *perception* that they run out more, because of how they built their Defender?

[Erratic]

There is a massive thread in the General Forum where ALL Defenders complain about being out of endurance on an ongoing basis.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a massive thread in the General Forum where ALL Defenders complain about being out of endurance on an ongoing basis.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've heard a lot of scrappers, tankers and blasters say the same thing too. We always want more endurance. Like Geko said (new and improved: GEKO SAYS!, I'm paraphrasing from memory) endurance is the *most* powerful ability.

[Shikamaru_NA]

[ QUOTE ]

For those that haven't read the EULA of this or any other online game, it does state that content is subject to change. An online game is not Static! It is Dynamic! It can and will change as needed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Change is good, and fine, but when things are made worse, brought below par, in some areas, they must also be raised in other areas, so that the characters are still at par. This was a change that reduced too many builds toworthlessness, without providing any remedy to that.

[ QUOTE ]

Umm.. put down the crack pipe and seek professional help guy. Just because scrappers "are fast" like you said and attack fast, that DOES NOT mean that you should be able to constantly without any pause at all keep attacking that fast and with that much damage without any drawbacks at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

When did I say no drawbacks at all? I have a whole thread about possible drawbacks they could add to Hasten. I have no trouble with Hasten having drawbacks, my only problem is that "downtime" is the ONE totally unacceptible drawback. The powers must work all the time, and with few enhancement slots. EVERYTHING else is up for debate.

[ QUOTE ]

What I said was that the bored L40s (mostly Blasters) are playing Scrappers because Scrappers are actually hard to play/underpowered, which is a total switch for them compared to their mains...

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, my bad. I thought you were implying the opposite was true. ;)

[ QUOTE ]

I think this game would be kinda silly, if you did not need 6 slots to max out a power. What would be the use of having 6 slots?

[/ QUOTE ]

They give you 49 slots between 20 powers. You can only max out 9 of them, which leaves one more with 5 slots, and the rest with none, UNLESS you short change some of them. Primary attacks deserve 6 slots. Primary defenses deserve six slots, some travel powers and support abilities deserve maybe 4 slots, but Hasten has never been strong enough to justify allocating 5 of your free slots to it.

Now, if you REALLY want to allocate 6 slots to it, you always could. Slot them with endurance enhancements and you can get the costs REALLY low. (not positive it can take endurance enhancements, but it should, since ti costs endurance).


PS, Geko, if you're still reading this thread, please tell us what, exactly, the regen is on Quickness, there's been a lot of debate on this, and its relative worth vs. Hasten for recharge buffing. I suspect based on anecdotal evidence from having and using both powers that it's fairly high, but others have claimed that it's negligable and therefore would be unbalanced vs. an always on Hasten.

[janni]

Hasten, I’m okay with…it was (is) a very powerful ability and I’m fine with using it situationally – i.e. boss fights and tough crowds.

The nerf to AM makes me sad…very sad. I would personally consider hasten the more powerful ability, but AM takes significantly longer to recharge it seems.

I’d be completely satisfied if there was a short downtime for AM (i.e. I’m okay with not having a constant AM effect going, at least solo), but making it even MORE situational than Hasten is pretty dang sucky. People aren’t kidding when they say it takes so long to recharge you forget it’s even there.

Well, those are my two cents…I know the devs are looking into reducing the timer on AM…I just hope it’s enough to un-nerf the radiation powerset. Endurance for me is a huge problem now (ice/rad controller)…I find I have to stop to catch my breath quite a bit, even when hunting blues…

Also, I know this was an issue before – that after Hasten wore off it would reset the recharge on other skills that weren’t ready…is this still the case? I don’t know if it’s my imagination, but it still seemed to be the case last night (could very well have been my imagination since AM’s downtime was depressingly lengthy :p)

Can anyone please confirm?

[Erratic]

[ QUOTE ]
I've heard a lot of scrappers, tankers and blasters say the same thing too. We always want more endurance. Like Geko said (new and improved: GEKO SAYS!, I'm paraphrasing from memory) endurance is the *most* powerful ability.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you play the game at all? It is very easy when teamed to see which characters are always the lowest on endurance.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What it comes down to is any FOTM will get mashed. Scrappers and radiation def/cont took it this round as their "need to have to be competative" powers got spanked.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand this part of your post... Scrappers and Defenders definitely weren't a FOTM, ever. Almost every scrapper I've played with switched to Blaster instead, and aside from myself, one Kinetics guy (who frequently says he hates it because he spends all his time casting Speed Boost over and over and over, but doesn't want to reroll), and a couple Empaths, none of our Defenders are left either.



[/ QUOTE ]

Was making a reference to the fact that the Devs killed the "must have power" to make 40 in 2 weeks. Why double check high end balance for power levelers when you can just gimp every one else?

And for the switching to blaster no thanks. If I want to mindlesly blast things i'll play a FPS atleast there you get to see a little blood. ;)

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've heard a lot of scrappers, tankers and blasters say the same thing too. We always want more endurance. Like Geko said (new and improved: GEKO SAYS!, I'm paraphrasing from memory) endurance is the *most* powerful ability.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you play the game at all? It is very easy when teamed to see which characters are always the lowest on endurance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, usually me in the big fights where I need to blast and use all of my buff/debuffs.

:(


(Sheesh, put that in the wrong place.)

[Atomic_Woman]

[ QUOTE ]
They give you 49 slots between 20 powers. You can only max out 9 of them, which leaves one more with 5 slots, and the rest with none, UNLESS you short change some of them. Primary attacks deserve 6 slots. Primary defenses deserve six slots, some travel powers and support abilities deserve maybe 4 slots, but Hasten has never been strong enough to justify allocating 5 of your free slots to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the core of the issue. I think we purposefully don't get enough enhancement slots to 6-slot everything. This way, we're forced to choose which powers are our best, our mainstays. Even beyond which powers you did or did not choose, which powers you put your slots in define your character.

And one more comment on Hasten. Not trying to flame here, or anything like that. But, if you used to be able to get the absolute maximum benefit from Hasten with only 2 slots (since the effect never increased, and at 2 slots/SOs you could always have it on) what's the point of having an option to put 6 slots in it? What other power in the entire game doesn't gain something (maybe not much, but something) by adding those last 4 slots? I can't think of one. Why should Hasten be any different?

[Kin_Gari]

[ QUOTE ]

So, with that said, let me give you my 10 Commandments of Geko:
*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
*I will not be scared to be wrong.
*I will react as quickly as possible, but not sooner than needed.
*I will not be scared to be unpopular.
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.


[/ QUOTE ]

Great post geko. I really like the commandments. Please, please keep them in mind while you guys make CoV, especially the part about continuing to keep the game fun. :)

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Defenders and controllers rely on AM for the one attribute you failed to mention, endurance regen. How bout removing the run speed, flight speed, damage add, and then reduce the time recharge back some ?

Read thru the 30 posts on people complaining about the AM adjustment, i dont see a single one complaining about loss of run speed, flight speed, or damage increase. Pretty much every thread is the loss of endurance regen for normal fighting, ans some for the haste effect . Its now used only for a boss fight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I actualy had that, and accidently edited it out. But that is a very significant part of the power. But that sorta is my point. AoE END REcovery is very powerfull. Only Emapthy has another AoE Recovery boost, and its the second to last power and has a 500 second recahrge. Nothing is more powerful than END. It is probably more important than HP. That is what makes AM so powerfull, and why its recharge was increased. Other defenders dont have that advantage. It was unbalanced. But again, the RT tie will be reduced, but not to the way to used to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone else hear the nerf bat swinging toward stamina? :eek:

[janni]

Geko recently posted that they don't foresee stamina being altered any time soon...

(Thanks Geko)

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
I love the game and have no issues with the changes from the last patch, :D
But this caught my eye :confused:

[ QUOTE ]
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement is rubbing me wrong, Ive been sitting here for about a half hour trying to state my feelings on this one, yet cant find the right words to not offend anyone.

It just feels like your saying, I will listen to what the mass's want, but just because most of the player base "most of the people paying to play' wants something, i wont give it to them. No compromises, Just a flat out Your out of Luck

Then its followed by,

[ QUOTE ]
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you do this by denying what the magority of the people playing the game want?

Im sure im just reading your post incorrectly and appoligize in advance, just would love some insight into this.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason why Gecko says he won't make changes just because their "popular" is that the majority of gamers almost 100% of the time don't know what's good for their own enjoyment or the game as a whole. Many other devs have made changes to game because it was the popular change to make, to have it backfire. What Gecko says is completely on the mark.

[longtime]

[ QUOTE ]
quoteThey give you 49 slots between 20 powers. You can only max out 9 of them, which leaves one more with 5 slots, and the rest with none, UNLESS you short change some of them. Primary attacks deserve 6 slots. Primary defenses deserve six slots, some travel powers and support abilities deserve maybe 4 slots, but Hasten has never been strong enough to justify allocating 5 of your free slots to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can also max out 6 powers and have an extra 19 slots free. The problem is right now the extra 19 are good enough to max out a number of powers Considering that there are some you will never put more than one enchanement on, for example a power you will take early that has a similar better power later. Then there are powers like Stamina were you are only going to put as many as you need. I don't see the biggest end burner putting 6 SO in stamina.

Right now a hero can be made that is good in everything. I don't think that is right and it making the game too easy.

I can see the problem with hasten is a number of people have wasted there slots on power that are not useful at the higher levels and now want to 6 SO hasten. If you think about it, by having 6 slots in the lower level power they were able to get thru the lower better. It seem to be a case of having your cake and being able to eat it too.

I have a solution, but this will require a major change to the game. Right now it is a linear formula for increases. If you did a formual where the fist increase is the best say a 1 and the next increase are a 1/n where n = slot number that enhancement has in that power. Most powers will be good a 3 to 4 slot. Then people have a good reason to add other enhances ments. Then you have the choice of 1/6 more damage or a good range increase, accuracy or special effect enhancement.

[Shikamaru_NA]

[ QUOTE ]

I think this is the core of the issue. I think we purposefully don't get enough enhancement slots to 6-slot everything. This way, we're forced to choose which powers are our best, our mainstays. Even beyond which powers you did or did not choose, which powers you put your slots in define your character.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well obviously, since there are less than 100 given slots. But the point is that spending 6 slots on hasten is not some trival thing. There are plenty of other powers you'd be weakening by adding those slots to Hasten, powers that are MUCH more important. And since Hasten now NEEDS 6 SOs to function properly, this makes the power not worth having, since with no slots spent the power is relatively worthless, and with 6 slots spent, you've just taken slots from powers that could have been made MUCH more efficient by adding them.

I had to make choices when allocating slots, and plenty of them. At no time did I feel that it was a "no brainer" to decide where to place my next slot. At no time did I truly wish that more of my moves were hopelessly gimped withough six-sloting them.

[ QUOTE ]

And one more comment on Hasten. Not trying to flame here, or anything like that. But, if you used to be able to get the absolute maximum benefit from Hasten with only 2 slots (since the effect never increased, and at 2 slots/SOs you could always have it on) what's the point of having an option to put 6 slots in it? What other power in the entire game doesn't gain something (maybe not much, but something) by adding those last 4 slots? I can't think of one. Why should Hasten be any different?

[/ QUOTE ]

Super Speed. You can max it out in two, three if you don't have Swift or Quickness.

Also, Geko said that Flight and Super Leap were artificially capped at sub-Super Speed speeds, so that leads one to assume that they max out short of 6 SOs.

And as I said, you should be able to slot in endurance enhancements (since the move costs endurance) if you REALLY feel like 6 slotting it. The move is just NOT worth 6 slots, and 6 slots are NECESSARY to get the move to be of ANY value. I cannot understand why so many people cannot understand that.

[Fossil]

[ QUOTE ]
It is comperable to all other sets, and identicle to their counterparts on others sets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could I see some examples? I look at Enervating Field and Choking Cloud and the rate of endurance drain seems extreme. I have taken both those powers because the description seemed powerful. But I find they are near useless because it comepletely drains my endurance in a matter of seconds.

Looking over the heal planner, I don't see any other abilities costing more than 2 edurance per second. I don't deny they have powerful effects but the rate of drain is extreme compared to anything else out there.

Since you have taken away accelerate mutation, I have shelved my defender. I've lost 4 slots now to virtually unusable skills (AM, Choking Cloud, Enervating Field + Hasten).
Admittedly that was some self gimping, but it goes worse with the nerfs.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...who clearly have no grasp of even the most basic concepts of game balance and game design, no matter how loudly they may shout...

[/ QUOTE ]

So its game balance that I spend half my time sitting around waiting for end to regen? Do you spend half your time sitting around waiting for end?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am a stone/stone tanker, and yes, I spend a lot of time waiting for my endurance to regenerate. The Stone defense primary power pool has toggle powers and quick on and off armor powers that drain A LOT of endurance. Do I come on the boards because I have down time in game, NO. Does a few seconds of downtime between every other fight or so, decrease my level of fun, NO. Would having the ability to use every attack every battle forever and ever without worrying about endurance during or after be fun, NO.

All of you people whining about the "nerfs" to haste and accelerate metabolism want to have your cake and eat it to. Well, things just don't work that way. Even in the fairy tale world of comic books where heroes and villains alike have powers that defy the laws of physics, there are limits. Even Superman can't fight FOREVER, he can tire. Even the Thing can get HURT, The Flash can "draw aggro" and be damaged while traveling at SuperSpeed, etc. I could go on, but it would be redundant.

Certain archtypes, by definition should have certain power levels and serve different functions. Maybe they are not as balanced as they could be right now, but the devs are working hard to get there.

For instance, Defenders should NOT be able to solo as effectively as tankers or scrappers. Neither should blasters for that matter, but definitely better than defenders. Susan Storm, the Invisible Woman, is a good example of a defender. She can create invisible force fields that are nearly impervious and also shoot "force" bolts at foes. And, of course, she can turn invisible. Now, the Thing is a good example of an Invul/Super Strength Tanker. Now, which one could solo better, the defender (Invisible Woman), or the Thing? I think the obvious answer is the Thing. His endurance is much greater than the Invisible Woman. Even though her force field is nearly impenetrable, the concentratation needed to maintain it would quickly tire her out. Once exhausted, her force field would fall and she would be no more powerful than any normal human. This isn't even taking into account whether she wanted to use her force bolts, a power she can only use with her force field down. The Thing on the other hand, while not having a force field, is nearly impervious to damage nonetheless. Plus, he is Super Strong, able to life more than 50 tons above his head, or maybe more. He could dish it and out and take it for far longer than Invisible Woman.

I'm not even going to get into how a character like Superman in CoH would completely ruin the fun of the game. No challange = unbalanced = NO FUN. Challange = balance = MORE FUN.

/flame proof suit on

[Breach_CoH]

[ QUOTE ]
The move is just NOT worth 6 slots, and 6 slots are NECESSARY to get the move to be of ANY value. I cannot understand why so many people cannot understand that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because when you say this, you've always been talking about your own particular archetype build. A Dark Melee scrapper, relying on hastened Shadow Maul, Dark Consumption, Soul Drain.

There are plenty of people who keep on saying that Hasten can be useful situationally. Hasten does not absolutely have to be on all the time for it to be of any use. That's ludicrous. If you feel that absolute rule, is true in case of your character, that's fine. But when you speak on a macro level like this, you have to look past your own nose.

I myself am *still* debating whether to take Hasten, even as an MA scrapper where the long attack animation times won't benefit from it as much. Why? So I can get off Eagle Claw + Thunder Kick + Eagle Claw + Crane kick in a 10 second span of Focused Chi, while still having these slotted to the max in damage/acc enhancements. To me, that's useful, and Hasten doesn't need to be on all the time for me to do it.

The Accelerate Metabolism change, is more debateable. I feel for the rad defenders out there. But right now a lot of the nerf-protestors of these two powers are starting to grossly exaggerate the 'uselessness' of them now. :p And you know what guys, it doesn't help your cause...if anything it makes your argument less convincing.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
When did I say no drawbacks at all? I have a whole thread about possible drawbacks they could add to Hasten. I have no trouble with Hasten having drawbacks, my only problem is that "downtime" is the ONE totally unacceptible drawback. The powers must work all the time, and with few enhancement slots. EVERYTHING else is up for debate.

[/ QUOTE ]

What other drawback could their possibly be fore Hasten that would make it balanced? The ONLY thing Hasten does is increase the recharge rate of EVERY power you have. Thus, the recharge time of EVERY power is reduced. To make use of this reduced recharge time, one has to have enough endurance to use the powers which are now ready to use quicker. If this power were to be on ALL THE TIME with little enhancement, this would be mean that you would have to have enough endurance to activate it all the time. Combined with the need to have enough endurance to use the now very quickly recharging powers, what you are demanding is infinite endurance so you can use Hasten and these powers infinitely.
This is totally UNREASONABLE and TOTALLY UNBALANCING.

[Atomic_Woman]

[ QUOTE ]
Super Speed. You can max it out in two, three if you don't have Swift or Quickness.

Also, Geko said that Flight and Super Leap were artificially capped at sub-Super Speed speeds, so that leads one to assume that they max out short of 6 SOs.

And as I said, you should be able to slot in endurance enhancements (since the move costs endurance) if you REALLY feel like 6 slotting it. The move is just NOT worth 6 slots, and 6 slots are NECESSARY to get the move to be of ANY value. I cannot understand why so many people cannot understand that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you can really count the travel powers. Yes, you can't get a full 6 slots of use out of them, but that's due to limitations set by the servers/their technology, not because of the powers themselves. Heck, Super Speed could have its base speed moved down so you indeed would need 6 slots to get the maximum, but that would remove its one advantage as a travel power (speed).

As for Hasten, sorry if this sounds blunt, but if it's vital enough that you need it all the time, then obviously it should be worth 6 slots to you.

We (or at least I) understand what you're claiming. We (I) just don't agree that hasten is totally useless without 6 slots.

[Atomic_Woman]

[ QUOTE ]
Could I see some examples? I look at Enervating Field and Choking Cloud and the rate of endurance drain seems extreme. I have taken both those powers because the description seemed powerful. But I find they are near useless because it comepletely drains my endurance in a matter of seconds.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was talking about Radiation Blast, not Radiation Emission. Neutrino Bolt and X-Ray Beam vs. Energy Blast and Energy Torrent, and such.

[Ex_Libris]

Geko,

Devs have the right to change as many things as they want as often as they want.

But where devs claim and exercise that right, concerned customers demand the same rights regarding their characters.

So when can we expect respeccing that is as comprehensive as the kinds of changes we have to endure?

I know Defenders and Controllers who want to drop the entire rad powerset now. Can they switch to Empathy? And when you nerf that can they switch to Storm? Can they switch archetypes once you've nerfed ALL support powers?

So far, it looks like I'll be able to change the color of my leopardskin tights before I can drop the powers I no longer want.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
I see nothing wrong with Rad Blast and RAd Emmision END cost. It is comperable to all other sets, and identicle to their counterparts on others sets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then YOU take it! Give the rest of us a way out of it.

[Ex_Libris]

Thanks for the post Geko.

I would also like to add that I think AMs RT needs a drastic reduction. I'd rather remove or reduce some of its buffs, like to movement speed, than have such an excessive RT.

[Atomic_Woman]

[ QUOTE ]
I know Defenders and Controllers who want to drop the entire rad powerset now. Can they switch to Empathy? And when you nerf that can they switch to Storm? Can they switch archetypes once you've nerfed ALL support powers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would they want to drop the whole set when only its' secondary (at best) effect was rebalanced? It still has 3 awesome debuffs, a pretty darn good heal, the best combat rez in the game...

The only people I can understand wanting to drop the whole set would be those who took it for AM alone. And, well, if you take a whole powerset for one power, it's noone's fault but your own if that power turns out to be unbalanced (and likely why many took it in the first place).

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]

Why would they want to drop the whole set when only its' secondary (at best) effect was rebalanced? It still has 3 awesome debuffs, a pretty darn good heal, the best combat rez in the game...

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't speak for all of them, but some think the powerset's balance revolved around A.M, and without it they would have reported (in beta) that the powers in the powerset needed shorter recharges, more damage, and/or lower endurance costs i.e. the things that A.M. provided).

[ QUOTE ]
The only people I can understand wanting to drop the whole set would be those who took it for AM alone. And, well, if you take a whole powerset for one power, it's noone's fault but your own if that power turns out to be unbalanced (and likely why many took it in the first place).

[/ QUOTE ]

Blame the victim. People take whatever seems like it will be best for them or their groups. For instance, illusionists complain about their slow recharge, so they choose rad as a secondary because A.M. overcomes that complaint. Are they evil bad people? No, they get offered choices and pick whatever works best for them.

It's really really callous to suggest that people who try to choose powers that will make them useful are somehow to blame when the devs decide a power is TOO useful.

[Shikamaru_NA]

[ QUOTE ]

There are plenty of people who keep on saying that Hasten can be useful situationally. Hasten does not absolutely have to be on all the time for it to be of any use. That's ludicrous. If you feel that absolute rule, is true in case of your character, that's fine. But when you speak on a macro level like this, you have to look past your own nose.

[/ QUOTE ]

But it applies to my own nose. This is how the change has effected my character. So they either need to reduce how this effects Dark Melee scrappers, or change it back but nerf those ATs that WERE capable of abusing the power in other ways.

[ QUOTE ]

What other drawback could their possibly be fore Hasten that would make it balanced? The ONLY thing Hasten does is increase the recharge rate of EVERY power you have. Thus, the recharge time of EVERY power is reduced. To make use of this reduced recharge time, one has to have enough endurance to use the powers which are now ready to use quicker. If this power were to be on ALL THE TIME with little enhancement, this would be mean that you would have to have enough endurance to activate it all the time. Combined with the need to have enough endurance to use the now very quickly recharging powers, what you are demanding is infinite endurance so you can use Hasten and these powers infinitely.
This is totally UNREASONABLE and TOTALLY UNBALANCING.

[/ QUOTE ]

At what point did I even HINT at increasing endurance? That'd be insane. In beta, with Quickness, Hasten, and Focused Fighting running, I still rarely ran out of endurance in a fight, due to endurance SOs and Stamina. I had endurance to spare. I wouldn't mind if Hasten worked like it used to, in exchange it would begin eting away at that spare endurance such that it was once again as tight, or tighter, than it was at lower levels, with lesser enhancements and no Stamina.

THAT is balance, because it allows me to keep the power running properly, but it's up to me to decide how to deal with the costs. Do I NEED Stamina? Could I use more Endurance SOs? Could I just ration out the uses of my attacks so that I don't burn out too quickly? Do I just burn myself out in less than a minute and spend the next minute recovering endurance? It's up to me, but whatever I choose, it's balanced out.

[ QUOTE ]

As for Hasten, sorry if this sounds blunt, but if it's vital enough that you need it all the time, then obviously it should be worth 6 slots to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have numerous powers that are vital enough to use all the time but that I don't see reason to put six slots in. In fact, I don't really have ANY powers that I use less than "most of the time". For example, Quickness I only had it's default slot, Practiced Brawlers only had three (and could have gotten away with less), Focused Fighting only had three, TP Foe only had 2, Invisibility only had its default one, and in none of those powers, powers which I used constantly and doubt I could have gotten by with the loss of any of them, would I find it a rational use of slots to put more slots onto them than I did.

[Ex_Libris]

ok iam not sure if this was posted or not but iam having a huge problem with aexcelrate metabolism (spelled it wrong) but its recharge time is way way way to long now befor it would recharge about 10 secs after my duration would end fine with that and i have a lvl 20 recharge do on it now it takes like 3 mins to recharge over its 1 mins recharge time and its durations seems a bit messed up it seems like it either sticks for 20 sec to about 50 secs not nearly long enough for it to be useful

[Grey_Bishop]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...who clearly have no grasp of even the most basic concepts of game balance and game design, no matter how loudly they may shout...

[/ QUOTE ]

So its game balance that I spend half my time sitting around waiting for end to regen? Do you spend half your time sitting around waiting for end?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am a stone/stone tanker, and yes, I spend a lot of time waiting for my endurance to regenerate. The Stone defense primary power pool has toggle powers and quick on and off armor powers that drain A LOT of endurance. Do I come on the boards because I have down time in game, NO. Does a few seconds of downtime between every other fight or so, decrease my level of fun, NO. Would having the ability to use every attack every battle forever and ever without worrying about endurance during or after be fun, NO.

All of you people whining about the "nerfs" to haste and accelerate metabolism want to have your cake and eat it to.

No challange = unbalanced = NO FUN. Challange = balance = MORE FUN.

/flame proof suit on

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, a Tanker flaming the Defender community need not put on a flame proof suit. Not only are we used to it by now, we actually don't have any fire-type powers.

What always is the most shocking to me is the fact you think Defenders are trying to get a good endo regen just for themselves. We're trying to get you your cake.

If I wanted to solo, I'd play a Blaster, or Scrapper, or Tank. My whole beef on the AM timer is the fact I can't keep buffs up on my team .

Even if I don't get to use it on myself, let me at least buff my team.

I realize stacking made it overpowerful, so just don't allow this power to be stacked.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know Defenders and Controllers who want to drop the entire rad powerset now. Can they switch to Empathy? And when you nerf that can they switch to Storm? Can they switch archetypes once you've nerfed ALL support powers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would they want to drop the whole set when only its' secondary (at best) effect was rebalanced? It still has 3 awesome debuffs, a pretty darn good heal, the best combat rez in the game...

The only people I can understand wanting to drop the whole set would be those who took it for AM alone. And, well, if you take a whole powerset for one power, it's noone's fault but your own if that power turns out to be unbalanced (and likely why many took it in the first place).

[/ QUOTE ]

blah blah blah maiden, the same tripe over and over. look, its simple, maybe people DO NOT value readiation emission the same as you do. maybe they only liked AM. what gives you the right to judge them on this fact? you do it nonstop. your drivel is becoming too much to handle. how is it their fault? your words, their fault. its their fault they chose a power because of how it worked? get over yourself maiden.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
I am a stone/stone tanker, and yes, I spend a lot of time waiting for my endurance to regenerate. The Stone defense primary power pool has toggle powers and quick on and off armor powers that drain A LOT of endurance.

[/ QUOTE ]

ahh yes? that 0.2 end drain makes you rest a lot and we rad defenders with toggles taking 3 and 6 per tick have no right to complain?
it's completely fair our toggles take 15 times and 30 times as much as yours?
come again?

[Atomic_Woman]

[ QUOTE ]
blah blah blah maiden, the same tripe over and over. look, its simple, maybe people DO NOT value readiation emission the same as you do. maybe they only liked AM. what gives you the right to judge them on this fact? you do it nonstop. your drivel is becoming too much to handle. how is it their fault? your words, their fault. its their fault they chose a power because of how it worked? get over yourself maiden.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you don't have anything constructive to add?

[Ex_Libris]

The biggest thing seems to be that this patch was to "balance" for the high levels while totally ignoring the rest of us (most of their playing base).

I was just reading a post about hasten in controller setup written by another Illusion/Radiation controller. His point was that it's still "that good" but you won't notice until you have 6 slots with SO enhancers in it so keep with the exp grind...

Since he's nowhere near as critical as some of us (he's in his 30's) this tells me that the devs are totally out of touch with the people who can't play as often.

WHY should I have to put SIX slots and SIX Single-origin enhancers into a first-tier power pool power in order for it to work for me? This is called BAD DESIGN. During beta we thought hasten might be a bit strong but were assured it was working as intended. Accelerate Metabolism was never mentioned at all.

Nerfing a power anyone can access and which adds to the fun of gameplay two weeks after you said you woudn't is WRONG. Nerfing a power which adds to the fun of gameplay for an entire party and which is nice enough to make people choose it as a primary/secondary (not the ONLY reason -- people like the debuffs and the ae heal in radiation even though they cost SO MUCH end to use) is WRONG.

This game went from something I had preordered for several months to the biggest disappointment in my MMORPG history thanks to the devs "fixing" things (like you would "fix" a pet I think).
____________

Is it worth it to me to subscribe to a game where I can do a useful design and not have to scramble to the level cap in order to use the design right? Yes!

Is it worth it to me to subscribe to a game where two of the powers my design uses in order to be valid are nerfed into uselessness until I'm AT that level cap? No!

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
The biggest thing seems to be that this patch was to "balance" for the high levels while totally ignoring the rest of us (most of their playing base).

I was just reading a post about hasten in controller setup written by another Illusion/Radiation controller. His point was that it's still "that good" but you won't notice until you have 6 slots with SO enhancers in it so keep with the exp grind...

Since he's nowhere near as critical as some of us (he's in his 30's) this tells me that the devs are totally out of touch with the people who can't play as often.

WHY should I have to put SIX slots and SIX Single-origin enhancers into a first-tier power pool power in order for it to work for me? This is called BAD DESIGN. During beta we thought hasten might be a bit strong but were assured it was working as intended. Accelerate Metabolism was never mentioned at all.

Nerfing a power anyone can access and which adds to the fun of gameplay two weeks after you said you woudn't is WRONG. Nerfing a power which adds to the fun of gameplay for an entire party and which is nice enough to make people choose it as a primary/secondary (not the ONLY reason -- people like the debuffs and the ae heal in radiation even though they cost SO MUCH end to use) is WRONG.

This game went from something I had preordered for several months to the biggest disappointment in my MMORPG history thanks to the devs "fixing" things (like you would "fix" a pet I think).
____________

Is it worth it to me to subscribe to a game where I can do a useful design and not have to scramble to the level cap in order to use the design right? Yes!

Is it worth it to me to subscribe to a game where two of the powers my design uses in order to be valid are nerfed into uselessness until I'm AT that level cap? No!

[/ QUOTE ]

To make is really damn good! Not *nice*. But as good as 2.5 SOs on for about 80% of the time.

It's is still *very* *very* powerful, but you have to allocate a lot to get that power and you can't do it at 6th.

[Ex_Libris]

making hasten and accelerate metabolics have a slower charge has gimped my character. i would be much happier if u changed it back or made a little faster then it is in the newest patch

[Ex_Libris]

I personally am frustrated as a Mutation Controller. Changing the telekinesis power has ruined my 2 characters. For me this has spoiled that game enough to make it not worth playing. After devoting so much time just to get my characters up to lvl 12 I don't want to have to start all over again. Not to mention pay $15 a months.

I think it is sad that so many game companies do not have game designers that know how to balance the numbers before the game is published. As a 3d modeler for a game company I find balancing of games after shipping date very frustrating. I think gimping players characters is a lamn way to fix a problem.

Because controllers are so week to start the changes have made the game so much less fun. While teams love to have me on their side for healing and putting people to sleep i am tired of just levitating and dominating people. While everyone else is raining acid my character can't do any damage.

[QuantumF]

Your solution to the Hasten and Accelerated Metabolism problem (if you agree that there IS a problem especially with AM) takes the wrong approach. The timers are now so long that AM (I do not have hasten) has been changed from a power that I actually use, to one that I only consider in an emergency. I find that I am "saving" it and therefor, I hardly ever use it at all. It would be MUCH better to decrease its power and keep the recharge time. Then at higher levels, you can boost its effects and chooses which ones to increase!

You say that this is a Great Buff but it is the Rad secondary Only buff........and not used at that! Please rethink your approach and consider this when you start to change the other powers. A reduction is strenght is better than to make it essentially useless.

[Ex_Libris]

Just recently found this thread through the dev tracker.

I have no idea how much AM gives boost to regen and other abilities, all I know I can't pretty much use it at all without adding a ton recharge reducers on it - something I won't and can't do as my other powers require them much more for endurance cost reduction - I have noticed you need at least 3 DO endurance reducers on all defender toggles to have any real effect.

I admit, I made a mistake and picked the power that is pretty much useless to me now which wasn't the case earlier. Earlier I used it both as a regen buff to reduce downtime - which is long for a solo defender, but not an issue in groups - and as a run speed buff to get around faster without transport powers. Now I don't use it for anything else but boss battles in hopes I don't run out of endurance before I manage to take the boss down - though I admit bosses are supposed to be hard and require a lot inspirations and powers to defeat.

I would rather see its effects being very minor than it taking forever to recharge - a power that you can use only once per mission, twice if it is a long one, is rather useless. Heck, change it to another toggle power that gives a minor boost and I'd be happy as I can't blast in groups anyways without running out of endurance while keeping up enervating field and using radiant aura. That way the endurance regen wouldn't benefit defender, but would still benefit his allies, making it a great group power. Its other benefits would still help defender which would make it useful for solo situations, too (especially in kiting).

All my defenders have a few mins downtime if I face a group of equal con baddies of numbers greater than two, because then I use enervating field and taking down three mobs with it sucks up all my endurance +usually one catch a breath. Yet, I don't think AM should be answer to this problem as that would help only radiation defenders and - like I said - all defenders that I have played (dark/dark, storm/dark, rad/rad, storm/elec) suffer from inability to use their primaries efficiently in solo fight due the fact they have huge endurance cost - I often run out of endurance with fighting only three even con mobs if I use more than one toggle.

Currently AM favors setting where you *need* to place recharge reducers on it. I'd rather see a situation where you can recast it fast and *if* you want to enhance its effects, you add +regen +speed +whatever enhancements to it - a buff/debuff power you can use more often for a lesser effect is better than a power you can use less but for a greater effect. At least for us casual gamers who don't want to stand around all day doing nothing while waiting power to recharge.

[Grey_Bishop]

[ QUOTE ]
Your solution to the Hasten and Accelerated Metabolism problem (if you agree that there IS a problem especially with AM) takes the wrong approach. The timers are now so long that AM (I do not have hasten) has been changed from a power that I actually use, to one that I only consider in an emergency. I find that I am "saving" it and therefor, I hardly ever use it at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, Exactly! this power should never be just an emergency use only power, and yet it is at this point, especially at the lower levels.

[Lallendos]

I don't post much here, or anywhere else. I didnt even know that AM had been broken officially. I kept wondering why It was seeming to be useless. Well, I guess I have my answer.
An illusion/RAD controller(currently lvl 19) is pretty much useless to a TEAM. Soloing-yeah, sure. I use my RAD debuffs, and flash blind them all, then guess what? Yep, Spectral wounds is so junky that I cannot possibly kill anything with my little remaining END. With AM on, I can sit there with everyone blind, and unable to effectively do damage(I also add defense debuffs to give a chance to hit hi exp enemies), for about 2 minutes. Then I either run or die. Thanks to pathetic illusion damage and total nerfing of AM, coupled with the COSTLY RAD set, I cannot solo. A team is less likely to group with me now, as AM was a big attractor. I don't work numbers on my powers, role-play. I'm sure this PVP is gonna screw with anyrole-play aspects now, as people seek PVP power vs a character theme, but DAMN, leave AM alone. Nerf it on open slots available max. Take waway recharge Time reducer compatibility. I dunno. While this was non- PVP I never considereed another's powerset. I just Role-played Lallendos, an in-yer face controller, who dominates the first round of battle, setting the stage for his team to destroy the enemy.

Thanks for adding PVP, and subsequently screwing my entire game up.

Guess i'd better get a scrapper or blaster, and learn the exploits....

Edit: Although I truly feel as if my char has been totally gimped, this game i s still tons more enjoyable than Lineage 2. At this point. I guess the implementation route for PVP will ultimately determine whether or not I stay. Oh, and I wouldnt really use exploits, although people worrying about "balancing" powers in a totally non-pvp environment seems odd to me.

[Daegon]

One thing that will really help with Defenders in making them a viable "Group Defender" is to Unerf the Leadership abilties. Defenders get a supposed 12.5% damage bonus for Assault. But this quantitative bonus only APPLIES to the unmodified unenhanced base damage of the spell. This bonuses does not stack with any sort of debuffs or enhancing damage bonuses.

So.. if you have a XXX spell that deals 100pts of damage (zero buffs, zero enhancers) it will now deal 112.5 points of damage. Now, as with the vast majority of people out there they will have at least one damage enhancer on a spell.

Now, this next example taken to the extreme, just for visualization with enhancers.

100 base damage spell, plus 6 SO enhancers + 200% = 300 damage. Now add on assault and that person deals 312.5 pts of damage. This equates to a 4.2% damage increase for that spell at a continuous drain of 2 End per tick. This is petty to the extreme compared to all other buffs and debuffs out there. Hell, my enervating field debuffs the critter and increases damage output by at least ~25%.



Assault does not stack with any sort of debuff or damage output :mad:


Daegon

[TiberiusGarett]

Geko, what about making Accelerated Metabolism affect the target only (so it could be used to powerup yourself or one other target) with a time that could be made available every couple of fights (say a base 5 min timer)?
I don't need an area of effect buff, I just want a buff I can count on every battle. If the endurance regen, damage bonus, resistance bonus is too high by all means scale them back but leave the power available more often. Heck dump the power that explodes a fallen ally, for an aura version of it at higher level. Btw all my characters are planning in Stamina now (don't have any regen scrappers).
Also the big griping is because we wasted slots on part time powers, I want to spend those slots on powers I use all the time. Without the ability to spend those slots we're handicapped until... lvl 22 or higher when we can fully slot AM/Hasten with SO's. Sadly I'm not levelling fast enough in one character to get near that mark anytime soon (especially after the AM fix).

So in short last request: please something like a self target or targetable Accelerated Metabolism that is available every battle or so with a few enhancements (say 3-4 DO's).
Or the ability to recreate characters (this will make everyone happy.. well at least most of the people that feel that they were mislead when testing out different characters).
Why not allow character rebuilds?

[Ex_Libris]

Hello Geko,

I noticed today that when I did a mission for Juan Jimenez in Kings Row that I got a temporary power that had flash grenades to help disorient the Skulls. I thought this was Totally cool!! :cool:

I wanted to ask, can we see more of this please? Also maybe at some point, could we be able to buy gear like flash grenades with influence?

Thanx, Katye

[Daegon]

There are a ton of missions out there that gives some pretty Awesome temporary powers.. limited charges or 1 hour duration. Lots and lots of nifty powers out there.



Daegon

[Ex_Libris]

It is my understanding, the overpowering effects of AM, leading to it's nerfdom, was not the indivdual power itself, but the overwhelming success of stacking 2, 3, or more together. Have you ever seen 4+ of these stacked on a group? Nothing short of immortal basically.

Well, the super extended recast time did NOT resolve this issue in the slightest. A serious Super Team, will work their way to a really nasty high-powered battle, slap on the 4 AMs, slaugther villians, then, back off doing lesser mobs until the AMs are ready to go again.

So, all we really accomplished here, was to "slow" down the slaugther of the high end mobs. If the true issue is, how it stacks with multiple AMs, then that's what should be addressed, not the recast timer.

Lessen the stacking effect, make them not stack at all, weaken the individual effects thus lessening the stacked affects...

If someone goes Hasten+AM, so they can keep their team buffed, so be it. I don't believe the true issue, is that you can build yourself, so that you pretty much always have AM running. That doesn't seem to be the root of the problem IMO.

Look hard at what you think is truly the overwhelming success of AM, and, lessen that effect, not abuse the recast timer as an easy quick fix. This goes for all balancing issues. Please do NOT use the recast timer as a miracle cure-all...

[Marlowe_Faustus]

[ QUOTE ]
It is my understanding, the overpowering effects of AM, leading to it's nerfdom, was not the indivdual power itself, but the overwhelming success of stacking 2, 3, or more together. Have you ever seen 4+ of these stacked on a group? Nothing short of immortal basically.

[/ QUOTE ]

My only objection to this solution is that, well any power stacked 4 times is freaking god-like. If they don't like stacking in one power then any solution for that sould be accross the board for all stacking.

[Ex_Libris]

Good point. Though, that would require a very large look, on everything that multiples of the same skill that stack.

I don't really know the exact numbers/mech behind stacking skills and how the "add" up. But, you would expect to have diminishing returns after so many of them.

The trick is to find the "balance" under that naughty little log curve between the boundaries.

With that being said, it reminds me, that I have yet to actually comment on how well of a release CoH has been. It has been the best release experience of a MMP that I have ever experienced.

[Pollution]

Haven't seen Gecko post in a while on this thread, but here's hoping he's still reading.

MY problem with the new AM nerf. Recharge time is insane (yes, I know that's been covered, but here's what I'd like to see.)
With 6 DO's in it, I was able to recast about seconds or so after it wore off, GREAT! Now, with 6 SO's in it, it takes 180 seconds to recharge. That's nuts man. I HAD planned to put the 3-4 SO's for recharge time in it and then put stamina increasers in the other two slots when I was able to purchase SO's. Now, that's not an option.
What I'd like to see is having 3-4 SO recharge reducers in AM and having it be ready 15-30 seconds after it wears off. That's it. Not having to wait 3 min or more for it to recharge. I don't want to tripple quadruple cast it and have my team running around owth 4-5 AM's on at all times, I just want it going once, keeping it up for fights, and maybe getting a little extra umph out of it as well.
I do have Stamina, and I love the effect. I NEED End. We all do, unlike health it doesn't go up with levels, and as far as I can tell, the powers don't cost less End with each level unless you modify them. End is VERY important, as you've said. But let's make it a LITTLE more available, please.

Pollution
25 Rad/Rad Science Defender

[Ex_Libris]

Hey, my name if Freddie Prinze and I was at E3 with my production partner Conrad Jackson. We played the beta of CoV and loved it. CoH came out on I think a tuesday, we were both there wednesday to get it. Your team out here in LA were super cool to us and treated with great respect. As do your in game techies. Great job with this game and I can't wait till my little gimp girl gets FLIGHT. Oh yeah if you see my partner Conrad Jackson aka REGGIE in CoH you have my permission to repeatedly destroy him against a hard thick wall. *Jessie Brazen laughs with glory*. Peace guys. Great FOOKIN work. - FP

[Mr_Wallet]

All this hubub about Hasten and AM is because these powers can't keep up with the fast pace of the game. I say (and most seem to agree with me), no other powers duplicate the effects of either of them, why not make them weaker with a more acceptable recharge?

In fact, do that with most of the long-recharge powers, like focus chi; that thing is too short, too powerful, and has too long a recharge; when I put massive recharge enhancements in it I feel like I'm cheating every time it activates, even though it probably evens out during the downtime. (hey 2 semicolons in 1 sentence, booyah!) :-P

[Ex_Libris]

Thanks for the info geko. I'm always pleased to see how the devs are paying attention to the players, and giving feedback on their view on things.

And for all of the whiners out there and reflexive [censored] about nerfs (and most of it is just reflexive I'm sure; I know I've felt the urge myself occasionally), IMO the majority of the players do really appreciate that you are all working hard to supply all of us with a fun experience. So far, I've had only a few minor quibbles, and I have gotten an awful lot of funtime out of this game.

Keep up the good work and know that it is appreciated.

[Mashiara]

I am a Rad/Rad Defender, level 26. Since the AM changes, my toon functions CRITICALLY different than before. I have some very specific issues with the changes.

I have Stamina with 3 DO slots. I hardly EVER run out of endurance, especially with AM up. The only exception is if I use Enervating Field. That power drains so much END that it isn't worth using even with SO end reductions. As soon as trials are functioning properly I will respec that and take Electron Haze instead... assuming that's still available from Terra Volta trial.

Anyway, the specific problem I have is with recharge of powers. Because AM gives boost to recharge of all powers, I could be a reliable healer. Many of my slots are speced out with SOs. With the change, it is going to cost considerable Influence to respec recharges in all my other skills to compensate for the inavailability of AM. And, at this point, the only way for me to have faster recharge in Aura is to sacrifice HP healed.

Another issue is Recharge enhancements in AM. When the change to AM was made, I had 2 DOs, which I promptly upgraded to 2 SOs. I saw a noticable improvement (as I should). Then, I added another SO, so now I have 3 total SOs in AM. According to Geko's post on how recharge enhancements work, the numbers should work out like this without Hasten (which I do not have):

520 second base recharge
520/1.33 = 383.45
383.45/1.33 = 288.31
288.31/1.33 = 216.77

A friend and I timed this today with a stopwatch and with my 3 SOs, I am at 350 seconds not 216.77.

The recharge difference is 5:50 (mine) apx 3:36.

Geko - Could you comment on this issue?
Am I not understanding the calculations? Is the base time off (pulled from Hero Planner)? Is this how recharge is supposed to work with AM?

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
520 second base recharge
520/1.33 = 383.45
383.45/1.33 = 288.31
288.31/1.33 = 216.77

A friend and I timed this today with a stopwatch and with my 3 SOs, I am at 350 seconds not 216.77.

The recharge difference is 5:50 (mine) apx 3:36.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're calculating it incorrectly. The way I understand it is as follows:

Base recharge = 520 sec
Each SO Recharge Reducer has a 33% effect

Default Recharge = 520 / 1 = 520
Recharge with 1 SO = 520 / 1.33 = 391
Recharge with 2 SO = 520 / 1.67 = 312
Recharge with 3 SO = 520 / 2 = 260

This still doesn't jive with your numbers, but these are the calculations that I was lead to believe were accurate. Someone please chime in if I've munged the calculations.

Oh, as a note: This means that any enhancers that REDUCE (endurance, recharge, etc) have a diminishing return on investment.

[Ex_Libris]

Your team is by far the best development and customer service team the MMORPG market has ever seen. I have brought my entire Everquest guild over to CoH, and that my friends is one of the highest complements one can receive. REVENUE :) :) :)

Big Richie Thumbs up to you guys :D

[Mashiara]

The posts I made within 2 threads on this are begining to converge in content, so I am posting a link to that thread and copying the message below.



My SG mate will be posting separately, but he got 8:40 with 2 DOs.


I created a new Rad/Rad Defender and took AM at level 2. She has ZERO enhancements!

The icon refreshed at 8:40, which coinsides with the hero-planner.
However, when I clicked it, it said it was still recharging.
It finally recast at 11:00.

Let's say that 11:00 (a bit excessive IMO) is the base recharge time. That's 660 seconds.

660/(1 + .33 + .33 + .33) = 330
This is still 20 seconds off from the 350 seconds that we counted with my 3 SOs. It may be nit-picky, but it is 20 extra seconds.

Geko - Is the refresh time for AM supposed to be 8:40 with the icon refresh or is it supposed to be 11:00 when the skill itself is available?

If the refresh is supposed to be 11:00, please fix the icon to reflect this. Though, I beg for reconsideration this base value to be in the 8-10 minute range. It would still qualify as very long. However, it would then not over-penalize those of us who do not plan to take hasten.

Perhaps consideration should be given with how hasten works with AM specifically.


If the recharge of AM and recharge enhancements remain as they are, I still have the following issue noted from my original post:

[ QUOTE ]

Anyway, the specific problem I have is with recharge of powers. Because AM gives boost to recharge of all powers, I could be a reliable healer. Many of my slots are speced out with SOs. With the change, it is going to cost considerable Influence to respec recharges in all my other skills to compensate for the inavailability of AM. And, at this point, the only way for me to have faster recharge in Aura is to sacrifice HP healed.


[/ QUOTE ] How do you calculate bonuses with enhancement (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=archetypes&amp;Number=479902&amp;F orum=All_Forums&amp;Words=&amp;Searchpage=0&amp;Limit=25&amp;Main= 412637&amp;Search=true&amp;where=bodysub&amp;Name=29010&amp;datera nge=0&amp;newerval=&amp;newertype=&amp;olderval=&amp;oldertype=&amp;bo dyprev=#Post479902)

[Ex_Libris]

It's probably 11:00 minutes. My Rad/Rad Defender is at lvl 20. I have 2 DO recharge enhancers in it, and it takes 8.5 minutes for it to recharge for me, 7 min. if I have Hasten active. While I agree that Hasten needed to be toned down, the nerf to Accelerate Metabolism is excessive. It is a highly useful buff that is a major part of a Rad Defenders contribution to a group. As it stands now, I barely use it. I only activate it if my team is getting kicked on, kind of like a "Final Stand" power. While useful in that regard, the nerf has lessened the effectiveness of my character considerably. I hope that you, the Dev's, change this. That being said, I still love this game, and am thoroughly impressed with the commitment you show towards us in responding to our concerns. :)

[Sly_Stone]

I think you guys are doing a great job. I love the game and I enjoy my main toon a 14 level Grav/Emp controller. I was reading through changes and fixes coming up. How come there wasn't more help for the Controller. We have poor hit points, poor damage and trying to hold a Boss is nearly impossible. I'm sure your aware that soloing a Controller is difficult at best. I'm not sure about the high end controller but the mid range 12 to 18 is very week. I see blaster ( I can't believe that!!) and defender getting some help. Controlers need some kind of decent direct damage power they can us in the early teens or more damage and less endo on the existing powers

Ez

[Rangael]

I just wanted to say thanks to the devs for being the best. It seems like they actually are serious about listening to us and not only fixing issues but working on rolling out tons of new content as well. You guys are doing a great job but you don't get the manly hanshake and nod just yet. That comes with the capes! ;)


Oh and am I the only one who noticed Freddie Prinze Jr. posted!? That's just cool. COH is so good even celebrities want to play! :D

[Francessa]

[ QUOTE ]
... Many rants about Hasten hit the boards before most people even tried out the changes. Also, many of the upgrades and improvements to other powers were not even considered. So, for now, I am simply asking you to try things out for a while, and we will do the same. I promise things will ebb and flow until we hit a sweet spot. My guess is Hasten will not be reverted, but the pendulum will probably swing back the other way a little bit. ...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to dive in on this as someone who watched, but was not terribly affected by the great turbo nerf of Earth and Beyond. As the saying goes, been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Very briefly, this arose because turbo in E&amp;B worked like hasten does here, it reduced the reload time of guns. Due to one of the devs misunderstanding this, a collection of devices were created that allowed 84% turbo. Reducing the reload time of guns by 84% had a devastating effect. It meant the player was doing about 500% more DPS.

The Devs realised the mistake, and subsequently fixed Turbo so that 84% turbo meant your net DPS was 184% of non-turbo, not 600%.

Of course, this lead to a HUGE outcry from the 84% turbo gang, who claimed that the game was no longer playable, they were going to quit, the game was doomed, blah blah blah. Anyone here remember Avenicus?

All because they couldn't solo mobs that were designed to be group material.

Well guess what. The change was made and we carried on, business as usual.

I WILL add an editorial comment to the effect that the devs should look into adjusting it so that haste does not decrease recharge time by the specified amount, but instead increases net rate of fire by the specified amount. I know it sounds like a purely semantic change, but as shown with 84% turbo in E&amp;B, it makes a vast difference.


In the current system hasted recharge time = normal recharge time * (1 - haste percentage / 100 ).

OK, so what's the problem? As haste percentage tends towards 100, rate of fire tends towards infinity, which is what caused all the trouble for E&amp;B in the first place.

The formula that E&amp;B settled on was hasted recharge time = normal recharge time / (1 + haste percentage / 100).

Anyway, coming back to the current discussion.

According to Pips hero planner, haste reduces your recharge time by 58.8% right out the gate with no enhancements of any type slotted. If that description is accurate to the letter, that means haste increases your dps to about 240%. Plug 58.8 into the original E&amp;B turbo equation if you don't believe me. Now, if Pips is wrong, I need to know, because that means that this whole argument of mine is null and void. So, could someone who has hasten state exactly what it does?

If you have a power that does 10 points every 10 seconds, that's 1 DPS. Reducing it by 58.8% means it does 1 point every 4 seconds or almost 2.5 DPS.

People, that is one almighty big increase in damage output. And you're complaining that you can't have it turned on 24/7?

I don't think the devs ever intended that this power be on 24/7. It has all the hall marks of a "boss killer" power, something that you turn on to take out that red or purple con mission boss.

OK, If Geko (or any other Dev) gets to the bottom of this rather long diatribe, can you comment on whether this is a correct assessment of the INTENDED use of Hasten?

Thanks.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
So, with that said, let me give you my 10 Commandments of Geko:
*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
*I will not be scared to be wrong.
*I will react as quickly as possible, but not sooner than needed.
*I will not be scared to be unpopular.
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.
*I will not reduce Accuracy.
*I will try my best to give you detailed information.
*I will make Statesman wash my car.

(well, 9 out of 10 aint bad)

[/ QUOTE ]
Rules to "live" by in an MMO! Communication here is better than any other MMO I've ever played :)

I must say though, that I'm a bit disillusioned with CoH after all the good things Cryptic officials said prior to release. Balance is to a large extent out, I even think you need re-examine your vision on gameplay.

For one thing; there's no real need for two support archtypes when only Blasters (and Scrappers with a Provoke Tanker or a couple of Controllers) has a "viable" damage output.

How about turning Defenders into viable damage dealers by upping their damage slightly and possibly lowering their primary efficiency? This would avoid the "conflict" between Defenders and the Controllers and solidifying what everyone knows; Controllers "defend" better. Likewise Tankers should have their primary slightly lowered (100% unaided damage resistence or even close is unbalancing) and damage slightly upped. Blaster AoE would have to be reduced somewhat and this alone will make Scrappers more viable.

Just my 2 influence worth.

[Tommeay]

[ QUOTE ]
*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess my question to you would be, is the combination of super speed + stealth making you invis, intentional?

I have this combo and so far the only things that can detect me is 5th column ware wolves. I mean im not complaining, I love it, its great for a spiner scrapper so he can get in position ahead of time and start going crazy doing AoE but I just wanna know if this is going to be changed in the future. Will you guys nerf this combo?

[Ex_Libris]

Quote:

Arguments? Well you haven't really argued about the AM nerf. There has been NO explanation about this change to AM. Why was it nerfed? We are a lot of people that simply don't understand this one - and don't understand why you will not talk about it. There are explanations of Hasten - but not about AM. You claim you aim to communicate Geko - please do so about AM. Why?


Ummmmm....Geko....the man has a point here.


Regards,
Captain Beyond

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love the game and have no issues with the changes from the last patch, :D
But this caught my eye :confused:

[ QUOTE ]
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement is rubbing me wrong, Ive been sitting here for about a half hour trying to state my feelings on this one, yet cant find the right words to not offend anyone.

It just feels like your saying, I will listen to what the mass's want, but just because most of the player base "most of the people paying to play' wants something, i wont give it to them. No compromises, Just a flat out Your out of Luck

Then its followed by,

[ QUOTE ]
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you do this by denying what the magority of the people playing the game want?

Im sure im just reading your post incorrectly and appoligize in advance, just would love some insight into this.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason why Gecko says he won't make changes just because their "popular" is that the majority of gamers almost 100% of the time don't know what's good for their own enjoyment or the game as a whole. Many other devs have made changes to game because it was the popular change to make, to have it backfire. What Gecko says is completely on the mark.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMFAO!!!!

What an absurd explanation for such a blatant, obvious, borderline assinine concept!

Ok lemme see now. Lets say I have a business. Most any business will do here. {I am sure there would be a very, very, very rare exception} Ok I have customers. They pay me money for goods or a service. My goal is to make my customers happy, make new customers, and make money.
Sound good so far? :cool:

But as time goes on {as it tends to do} I learn that my customers {the POPULAR majority} of my customers request a reasonable type of service or goods which they are willing to pay me their hard earned money for. Still with me?

So..........

I announce to my customers that just because something is popular with them; I and I alone reserve the right to deny them that! {keep in mind I have already included reasonableness in customers' requests in this equation}

Sound like good business practice to you?

Help me.



Regards,
Captain Beyond

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]

LMFAO!!!!

What an absurd explanation for such a blatant, obvious, borderline assinine concept!

Ok lemme see now. Lets say I have a business. Most any business will do here. {I am sure there would be a very, very, very rare exception} Ok I have customers. They pay me money for goods or a service. My goal is to make my customers happy, make new customers, and make money.
Sound good so far? :cool:

But as time goes on {as it tends to do} I learn that my customers {the POPULAR majority} of my customers request a reasonable type of service or goods which they are willing to pay me their hard earned money for. Still with me?

So..........

I announce to my customers that just because something is popular with them; I and I alone reserve the right to deny them that! {keep in mind I have already included reasonableness in customers' requests in this equation}

Sound like good business practice to you?

Help me.



Regards,
Captain Beyond

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you. What, you may ask, allows me to put my .02 in here? I have a degree in Economics (with a specialization in Monetary and Fiscal policy).

What that statement says to me is "Go play WoW when it comes out". If the majority of the people want something, let them have it? Devs, does it cost you money to give us what we want? Will the game complain to you that the monsters are being beaten up too much and the game is going to quit if you don't nerf the players? Seriously, what's the hurt in allowing people to have what they want in a make believe world? A combo is broken? Who cares?!?! If the players are not challenged because of it, they will monitor themselves and not use that combo.. i.e. D&amp;D Psionics 3.0 had some stupid broken combos.. no one I ever played with used them. We all knew of them, but thought the game wouldn't be as fun.

Let the players have what they want. I promise you that the game will not complain about it if it's mobs are killed more often.

Alex
Your Favorite Burner

PS-Please Buff the MC so I can start playing mine again. :)

[GrimTitan]

First of all, Child of Sin hit the nail on the head. What are the negative effects of leaving things alone? I heard no complaints before all the nerfs started, but they've sure popped up in force since then. Ok, a power set makes it easy to solo, so what? The people who want to power level &amp; solo will take that &amp; have fun. The people who don't want to will pick whatever suits their tastes &amp; have fun. I just don't see the point. It's not like it's enabling people to destroy the gaming experience for other players.

More to the point, I think I'm done. I know nobody cares, but please read on because I feel the reasoning behind me leaving this game is important. I looked forward to this game with great anticipation. I reserved my copy in advance &amp; was sitting at my computer watching the count-down clock on release night. I have spent many days playing 5 or more (sometimes up to 10) hours just sitting at my computer playing... and I've had fun. Lots of fun. But it's not THAT fun. The goal of having stats in a game (like an RPG) is so that you can make your character more powerful. That's the way the game works. In some games your skills get better, your reflexes &amp; ability with the controls improves, &amp; that's what makes you better. In an RPG-esque game your stats are what make you better. Your reflexes don't allow you to deal more damage or avoid taking more damage, your stats do. In that same vein, the goal of selecting your character's powers &amp; what areas to specialize in is to build the most effective character possible. I feel that I can strategize around any situation. I can build a character that will accel in any given area I decide to target it for: lockdown, DPS, healing, etc., and I can build a character that will be able to handle any kind of enemy under the appropriate circumstances (level balance, group size/composition, etc.), but there is one enemy I can't beat: god. The devs are the gods of this game, &amp; there is nothing I, or anyone else, can do to beat them. I can spend dozens, even hundreds, of hours building a new character to be effective under the new patch rules, but why should I? The instant I get them up to a respectable level where they truly start to become effective some modification will be put into place that will make it worthless again. My last character was a Fire/Devices Blaster, &amp; before that an Ice/Axe Tanker. My latest one was a Fire/Storm Controller. With the nerf on slows my secondary set has already become worthless, &amp; at this point I see no reason to continue on to reach Fire Imps, because by the time I get to L32 they'll have been nerfed as well. Considering the newly added decrease to XP rewards &amp; the fact that it's made grouping almost pointless, it'll take even longer. So I sadly say "I'm done" to this game. Not because I'm angry at the idea of trying to "balance" the game, although I don't see why the supposedly "unbalanced" issues from before were a problem, but because I'm bitter that I've spent my money (&amp; more importantly my time) on a game which should still be in beta testing. I will not waste one more dollar of my money, or one more hour of my time, on a game which will force me to try to fight "god" to be an effective fighter. I may come back once the game settles into a state where I don't have to be unsure of what I'll log into every single day.

To the Devs: I thank you for trying to put out such a unique game which has brought enjoyment to many, but I will not give you another dollar to let me play-test a game for you. You remind me of a mother afraid to let her child go to college. It's time to cut the apron strings &amp; start using our hard-earned money to put in new content, not frustrate us with a game of leveling cat &amp; mouse. Good day.

To Geko: Thankyou for being so involved with the gamers &amp; listening to what we have to say. I would ask you to take what I (&amp; many others) have said here to heart &amp; try to enlighten your colleagues to the fact that they are killing this game before it escapes infancy. And why? So the AI won't be cheated out of a few kills? Thankyou again.

To the gamers: I encourage you all to consider the truth of what's going on here. This game was released too early. You pay a monthly fee to play because server upkeep costs money &amp; (primarily) to receive new content to keep this game new &amp; fresh. What new content have you received? How many of you cared enough about the state of the game before all the patches? How many of you have been frustrated since? If you're enjoyment level has gone down as time has passed, or even if it has stayed the same (rather than increasing) then you are not getting what you are supposed to be paying for. Thinking on that a while.

To everyone: Good Hunting.

[SilverSenturion]

[ QUOTE ]
To the Devs: I thank you for trying to put out such a unique game which has brought enjoyment to many, but I will not give you another dollar to let me play-test a game for you. You remind me of a mother afraid to let her child go to college. It's time to cut the apron strings &amp; start using our hard-earned money to put in new content, not frustrate us with a game of leveling cat &amp; mouse. Good day.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is about as myopic a statement as I have seen on these forums. For some reason people seem to labor under the belief that any game that is released will be "complete". The whole purpose of MMPGs is that they are ever evolving and ever changing persistant worlds. The notion that the game shouldn't change, or that devs will never make a mistake, or that players will never find a way to abuse the game world rules is laughable. Everything has flaws, ever system has loop holes. The dev's try to fix them where they can for our enrichment. To maintain a healthy game both nerfs and buffs are necessary to some extent. Why people believe otherwise is a mystery to me.

-Senturion

[Ex_Libris]

way to screw up devs. now not only can I barely hit anything, any groups I get now suck for xp since we can only take something a couple levels above us at most. Xp sucks, you really blew it.

[GrimTitan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To the Devs: I thank you for trying to put out such a unique game which has brought enjoyment to many, but I will not give you another dollar to let me play-test a game for you. You remind me of a mother afraid to let her child go to college. It's time to cut the apron strings &amp; start using our hard-earned money to put in new content, not frustrate us with a game of leveling cat &amp; mouse. Good day.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is about as myopic a statement as I have seen on these forums. For some reason people seem to labor under the belief that any game that is released will be "complete". The whole purpose of MMPGs is that they are ever evolving and ever changing persistant worlds. The notion that the game shouldn't change, or that devs will never make a mistake, or that players will never find a way to abuse the game world rules is laughable. Everything has flaws, ever system has loop holes. The dev's try to fix them where they can for our enrichment. To maintain a healthy game both nerfs and buffs are necessary to some extent. Why people believe otherwise is a mystery to me.

-Senturion

[/ QUOTE ]

The game can be ever-changing without altering old things. That's what the concept of adding new content implies. And as someone so poignantly pointed out, what does it hurt if a few players find a way to "abuse" (which I think is a subjective term) a certain ability? Who is hurt by that? Not a single soul.

[AbuliaDon]

(Crosspost from General)

Level 15 En/En Blaster here, casual player. Got on tonight and grouped.

I hate this patch with every fiber of my being.

Everyone's said it already but I'll repeat. Joined an 18, another 15, and a 13 sidekicked to 17. The other 15 was a Storm Defender. Door clockwork mission where everyone in the mission was 18. Bosses and Lts were HIGHLY COMMON; minions very rare.

We made it through with a couple of casulties but for the most part without too much problem...for the other players. The 18 Scrapper did just fine. He was a defensive machine. The SK 17 Blaster did great too. The 15 Defender used Hurricane constantly; apparently that power doesn't need to "hit" to work because she had no problems.

I, on the other hand, with two Acc slots in my attack powers, was nigh useless. My hit rate was, at best 25%. Using Aim gave me one or two shots that hit maybe 50% of the time. The only time I was useful was when someone killed the Princes' and I got to mop up the level 16 gears. :)

It was a frustrating evening for me. I made some good XP and worked off my debt from dying but not because I was an effecitve member: *I was a leech the entire night.* I don't feel good about leeching and worse of all, grouping was just a frustrating experience of Miss, Miss, Miss....

I don't mind a challenge or tough bosses but being relegated to being inept isn't fun.

I play CoH to have fun. :(

[Psychoti]

Really hate this latest patch, it's much harder to be effective in a large group when I'm as much as 2 levels below the highest player, because I can rarely hit the targets we attack, and when I do, my sniper shot does around 24 damage, if that! That's crazy. That was a minion merely 4 levels above my level. I don't expect to do full damage, or have a 100% hit rate, but I do expect that I would still be able to fight them and put up SOME kind of fight!

[Ex_Libris]

I am another who hates this patch.
I play 2 tanks lvl16, 1 Defender lvl19 and a blaster lvl12, I have been swapping chars for a while now and have been really enjoying myself with this game (in my opinion worth every penny of the monthly fee)

However, in the space of 24 hours the developers have managed to destroy my gaming expirience, given excessive debt to all my chars and generally pissed me and my gaming friends off.

Last night I watched with my defender while a lvl19 scrapper, 20 tank and 3 balsters tried to kill 1 lvl25 outcast - the battle was a standoff, I stood there for 15 mins until the team got pissed off and ALL logged out.

Please fix this patch ASAP or you will loose countless players for both COH and the new COV before its release date.

Once again, this patch is [censored]

Jimmy_The_Saint

[Click_Beetle]

Speaking as a level 16 gravity controller, I have to say I didn't see an enormous amount of difference last night after the patch even while grouping in Boomtown with my SG. It was already pretty difficult for us teen-level controller types to hold mobs too far in advance of us and the magnitude system makes it difficult for us to hold bosses anyway, but I was holding red lieutenants with about the same effectiveness as usual. Maybe y'all're just coming to live in our world now. ;)

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
Speaking as a level 16 gravity controller, I have to say I didn't see an enormous amount of difference last night after the patch even while grouping in Boomtown with my SG. It was already pretty difficult for us teen-level controller types to hold mobs too far in advance of us and the magnitude system makes it difficult for us to hold bosses anyway, but I was holding red lieutenants with about the same effectiveness as usual. Maybe y'all're just coming to live in our world now. ;)

[/ QUOTE ]

That is pretty much what happened, as far as I can tell. Everyone is now fighting where they should be (to a degree) and they are unhappy with being "gimped" down to fighting like controllers/defenders.

[Ex_Libris]

Many great posts here. Lots of good solid reasoning.

Gecko,

here are the main three problems with your constant nerfs and changes:

1) it is IMPOSSIBLE to plan and develop a character
2) it is NOT popular with the majority of your customers
3) see #1 and #2

I have had the day off today and havent logged in once. Two patches ago, I would have been on for about 4-5 hours.

Get my drift?


Regards,
Captain Beyond

[Ex_Libris]

Basically groups are should now be similar to the ffxi groups which were 1-2 lvls apart. Also with this patch it just slowed down exp so it could maybe make people stay in the game longer because now it will take longer to lvl, thus increasing the longevity of the game maybe.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
Many great posts here. Lots of good solid reasoning.

Gecko,

here are the main three problems with your constant nerfs and changes:

1) it is IMPOSSIBLE to plan and develop a character
2) it is NOT popular with the majority of your customers
3) see #1 and #2

I have had the day off today and havent logged in once. Two patches ago, I would have been on for about 4-5 hours.

Get my drift?


Regards,
Captain Beyond

[/ QUOTE ]

As for your number 1, the game hasn't been live a whole month yet (has it?) so you can't expect to have character plans be set in stone. As dev's have said, the game changes aren't meant to piss you off on purpose as so many board users seem to think, they are patching to balance and make the game as it was originally thought to have been, so no uber power leveling.

[Ex_Libris]

So things that discourage grouping and decrease the fun element are good ideas?

As far as "the game has been out a whole month" thing; when changes are made that drastically effect a heroe's powers, it is a bad idea.....irregardless.

In beta the devs really gave ya the feeling they cared and listened, now they seem to be kinda leanin more towards the "SoE kinda way" of doing things.


Regards,
Captain Beyond

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
Basically groups are should now be similar to the ffxi groups which were 1-2 lvls apart. Also with this patch it just slowed down exp so it could maybe make people stay in the game longer because now it will take longer to lvl, thus increasing the longevity of the game maybe.

[/ QUOTE ]

BTW....this is what I meant by "SoE kinda way".

Flawed thinking at best.

If the intention of this latch patch was to slow down powergamers then yippee....it worked.

For the other 90% of us who love grouping and cant live in front of a computer, it was not good.


Regards,
Captain Beyond

[Ex_Libris]

Well its like this, I am a casual gamer and I have played EQ for aprox 4 1/2 years, they change things over and over. If this is going to become a norm for this game let me know now please, I would like to get to a high level one day. I mean I went from being able to solo mobs 2-3 levels above me and maybe 2 others my level, like a boss and 2 minions or a lt and 2 minions, I log after this latest patch and I cant hit anything even things my level I miss them 2 outta three shots and this is with a PBAoE power, I mean come on. I understand the need for balance but alot of people that play are looking to see their exp bar move sometime this month, they want to see the end game and kill big mobs like super heroes do. I never seen super heroes like these that get taken out by one guy that is 2 levels above them. I mean its like eq and the warrior, I have never seen a warrior that couldnt hold his own 1 on 1 but in eq after level 30 your dead if you dont have a healer. That seems to be where this whole "Balance" thing is headed, if I am not going to be able to solo their is no point in playing because I play late at night and there usually isnt nobody or not many on at that time. Killing mobs the same level as me or below I would possibly see end game when CoH 2 comes out.

[Wyrd_theFaction]

*shrug*

Noone says you have to be level 40 to enjoy the game. It makes NO sense to PL in a PvE game such as this... especially since there isnt really a whole lot of high level content.

EQ? Sure, there are dragons and such to kill
DAOC? RvR makes level 50 mandatory
CoH? *shrug* Playing the game is fun at all levels.

It reminds me of old D&amp;D campaigns... I LOVED levels 3-7, they were the most fun. Over that, sure you get to fight big mobs, but its was much less of a challenge.

As for being "Impossible" to plan a character?
*Shrug* still following my original template for my KA/SR Scrapper. I knew nothing about the game when I started and I just made a couple decisions as to what I wanted.
Are there some abilities that have been tweaked (e.g. Parry)? Sure
Are there some abilities that I didnt know were really good (e.g. Build Up)? Sure
Is my toon still a blast to play? Absolutely

Again, just enjoy the game. You dont have to hit 40 to have fun. You dont have to exploit spec to have fun.

W

[Ex_Libris]

I am another gamer that definatly doesn't like the latest changes. Last night and today I played my Gravity/Kinetics Controller and must say most of the fun has gone out of this charactor for me. ALL of my powers require me to hit a target to work. I spent every influence point I had to buy 6 Accuracy enhancements and people were still dieing too often in my group because I was regularly missing targets with my heals and buffs.
It seems to me that all other healers that I can think of do not have to hit an enemy to heal thier group so kinetics was the only group effected in this way. Was it really nessesary to nerf a heal that missed regularly even before the patch? I use 80% of my slots for Accuracy enhancements just to not feel usless in groups.
Most types of powers have passive and self affecting powers that were not affected by the patch, For example my Scrapper misses his punches more often yet his Invulnerability powers are just as effective as ever. Gravity/Kinetics players seem to have gotten a raw deal as 95% of both power sets are affected.

Also one of the things I liked very much about this game was that players several levels apart could still group together and be effective. Now if you are 3 levels above the rest of the group you are carrying it and if you are 3 levels below the rest of the group you are close to useless. :(:mad:

[Lowva]

LOVE NEW UPDATE, and just so every-1 know this patch was just a trial thing for the developers to really find out who is doing what

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
I am another gamer that definatly doesn't like the latest changes. Last night and today I played my Gravity/Kinetics Controller and must say most of the fun has gone out of this charactor for me. ALL of my powers require me to hit a target to work. I spent every influence point I had to buy 6 Accuracy enhancements and people were still dieing too often in my group because I was regularly missing targets with my heals and buffs.
It seems to me that all other healers that I can think of do not have to hit an enemy to heal thier group so kinetics was the only group effected in this way. Was it really nessesary to nerf a heal that missed regularly even before the patch? I use 80% of my slots for Accuracy enhancements just to not feel usless in groups.
Most types of powers have passive and self affecting powers that were not affected by the patch, For example my Scrapper misses his punches more often yet his Invulnerability powers are just as effective as ever. Gravity/Kinetics players seem to have gotten a raw deal as 95% of both power sets are affected.

Also one of the things I liked very much about this game was that players several levels apart could still group together and be effective. Now if you are 3 levels above the rest of the group you are carrying it and if you are 3 levels below the rest of the group you are close to useless. :(:mad:

[/ QUOTE ]

This was the most annoying patch yet.. in fact I quit because of it this morning.. check out my post "why I am going to quit CoH"

Can't group, can't XP, no content, Beta Game.. not going to pay for it.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
LOVE NEW UPDATE, and just so every-1 know this patch was just a trial thing for the developers to really find out who is doing what

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the dumbest thing I have heard since.. well.. the last patch message.

thanks for the laugh tho.

[DirtNap090]

I have not played a controller, but I am a gamer and have been for some time. I think the issue that is being missed here is one of balance. You are complaining about losing something you never should have had in the first place. What is the point of having different power sets within an archetype if they are not distinct? You mention that other controllers don't need to hit in order to heal. And? If that is the type of controller you want, play that type. Perhaps they aren't all supposed to heal. Perhaps you should RTFM and decide the type of character you want to play. Further, realize that this is a game. Enjoy the challenge. If you want everything to be touchy-feely and full of transactional analysis, join a 12 step program.

[CaptHitGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
I have not played a controller, but I am a gamer and have been for some time. I think the issue that is being missed here is one of balance. You are complaining about losing something you never should have had in the first place. What is the point of having different power sets within an archetype if they are not distinct? You mention that other controllers don't need to hit in order to heal. And? If that is the type of controller you want, play that type. Perhaps they aren't all supposed to heal. Perhaps you should RTFM and decide the type of character you want to play. Further, realize that this is a game. Enjoy the challenge. If you want everything to be touchy-feely and full of transactional analysis, join a 12 step program.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hear! Hear! DirtNap....well put indeed.

I've been reading through this thread and realize that many of the complainers either don't read comics or choose to ignore them. Allow me to use Marvel for example:
Who here can name the de facto (not necessarily official) leader of The Avengers?
Why Captain America of course.
How about the Fantastic Four?
Mr. Fantastic
And a bit more obscure (and old school), the Champions?
Angel (pre-Archangel)

What do these 3 leaders have in common?
They are all pretty much useless in combat but are all incredibly good tactical thinkers that can use what few abilities they have to best effectiveness no matter what the circumstances. This is the true essence of being a super-hero, not the amount of damage you deal out or the efficiency of your powers, but the ability to transcend one's limitations to achieve things beyond that of mortal ken.

This game doesn't require a massively powerful character to enjoy the game. You just must work and think tactically within the strictures of your chosen character concept. For example, I have a MA/SR scrapper (The Prime Minister) that I modelled after Captain America. In other words, I gave him powers that would not be beyond those of a normal (though perfect) human. This means it takes me forever to solo since I do very little damage with my kicks but my leadership and speed more than make up for this in a group. He is a gas to play! So what if he's feeble in combat, it just makes me think harder when playing. I guess you could say I nerfed him intentionally.

Some people seem to forget that not only the costumes but the powers you choose make each character completely unique. WIth this in mind have the people that complain about the patch tried to think outside the box and tried even a different archetype? I see many complaints from Controllers and Defenders and EN/EN blaster but few or none from Tankers or Scrappers.

Some would say that this is because the game is slanted towards those types but I believe that its more along the lines of a very vocal minority that keep whining again and again without attempting even to move outside their comfort zone. For crying out loud people, maybe you should just try a different archetype!

As to the specific nerfing issues that are being brought up, I just took Hasten with an electric Blaster and it rocks! As long as I am careful with my END I can solo quite nicely thank you very much.

Let me end this rant by stating that issues of game balance are far more important than how powerful you are and how fast you level. I have been dealing with Rules Lawyers since I started DMing D&amp;D back in '79 and exploiting and enjoying the game are 2 very different things. Kudos to Cryptic Studios on the best MMORPG I have ever played and the best super-hero game for the PC (mind you thats in a field of only 2 :) ).

Through the Power of the Fist!
Capt. Hit-Guy

[Battlebot]

I only have one issue with "recent changes"... Provoke, why was it changed? For the burn exploit? And what of the rest of the people who don't abuse this power... Not everyone is an exploiter... I loved the way I played, and now its totally messed up because you can't find a better way to prevent this exploit? In previous posts you said "provoke is working as intended" (or something to that effect). Nothing about provoke has changed prior, so why did this change happen? I know there are other posts regarding this, but they may all be considered rants and be ignored. And since this post was started by Gecko himself and is regarding "recent changes" I feel its my best bet.

[IncaBoy]

Valeon,

I too thought the provoke nerf was just in response to the way it worked with burn, but I believe they also were concerned that tankers with provoke made controllers obsolete since the tanker was in effect controlling the situation with provoke.

I am not taking a stance on this in any way, I am just relating what I had seen in other threads - so don't flame me for mentioning this you bastiges.

[Dragons]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(well, 9 out of 10 aint bad)

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah ha! I knew accuracy was nerfed! :D

[/ QUOTE ]

HEY! I nearly spewed my drink when I read this.... :D

[Battlebot]

Yea, I have since ready many threads regarding this. That probably had a lot to do with it. Though I think its just as ridiculous as the burn exploit. Provoke does not inhibit controllers at all. In fact my best friend is a controller and he has never complained to me or to my other friend (a defender) about provoke. We all work great together and as soon as we find a blaster (lol, not too hard on most days) we have a team started. I never 'control' a whole group with provoke, its not possible, it only affect a max of +4 right? And its duration is horrible on higher lvl mobs. So, if it was that big of an issue, they simply had to give it a higher recharge (though 10 sec. is horrible) or lowered its max affect to +3 or gone with the tohit change. Certainly this double whammy (tripple if you count them introducing this patch without the ability to enhance acc.) is overkill.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
I only have one issue with "recent changes"... Provoke, why was it changed? For the burn exploit? And what of the rest of the people who don't abuse this power... Not everyone is an exploiter...

[/ QUOTE ]


1. Using 2 powers that were presented as being correct in form and function is not exploiting.

2. Provoke + Invincibilty was just as bad as Burn + Provoke, except Inv Tankers didn't have to suffer a nerf to the accompanying power.

[Battlebot]

[ QUOTE ]

2. Provoke + Invincibilty was just as bad as Burn + Provoke, except Inv Tankers didn't have to suffer a nerf to the accompanying power.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I can see this as a possibility, and though I don't have Invinc. yet I was definately taking it sometime. From what I have heard, it could make you a god in some peoples views, this is one reason I hadn't taken it yet. So, instead of nerfing the God power, they chose to nerf the power every tanker had counted on to keep their teams alive. Again I must ask; Why?

lol... I can only wonder... Why didn't they just tone down on Invincibility? I mean, isn't that obvious? :(

You see people complaining about Invincibility all the time in the tanker forums...

Oh, and by your: 1. 'yada yada' Were you actually trying to defend the burn exploit? I don't like to flame first then ask questions so...

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and by your: 1. 'yada yada' Were you actually trying to defend the burn exploit? I don't like to flame first then ask questions so...

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said, using 2 powers which are related as working as intended by the game developers at the time of use is not exploiting. Was it too good? Yup. Doesn't make it an exploit though.

[Ex_Libris]

regardless of the changes to burn/provoke the issue I have is with Geko's statement that mistakes with patch notes are "RARE" when the last 3 major patches were NOT TESTED, and NOT POSTED with patch NOTES, and I dont know about the rest of you, but even in FANBOI-dom

0-3 is NOT rare, it can now be considered COMMON PRACTICE.
NO testing, No patch notes = Stealth nerf, I understand the apologies, but the fact that the DEVS continue NERFs rather then fix the NEW problems they have INTRODUCED, such as the mob difficulty, and the accuracy/recharge enhancements in provoke etc...

[Goldbrick]

[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't they just tone down on Invincibility? I mean, isn't that obvious?

[/ QUOTE ]

Invincibility is a power that provides damage avoidance, a to-hit debuff for enemies that ramps up based on how many mobs are surrounding the tank.

Properly slotted with SOs, it generally takes only two or three mobs in close proximity to give a tanker maximum protection against getting hit by same level mobs.

Mobs that are higher level than the tanker will have increasingly greater relative accuracy vs. this power.

As far as nerfing this power, I believe there's a 95% cap on total damage avoidance, so even level 1 gangs could score a 1 point hit occasionally against a level 40 tank. But why name a power Invincibility if that's not what is meant?

This is a toggle power and can be shut off by stuns etc.

Damage avoidance powers also include Hover, Stealth, Tough Hide, and Combat Jumping.

Finally, everyone please choose a new target for nerfing. The tankers are looking pretty beat up now.

[Ex_Libris]

invincibility is strong, but look at the name lol. I mean I saw a 27 tank take on 4 35's and not take damage. Is that balanced? no. Is it fair? probably not to some classes. Is it ok? of course, you don't make a skill set called invunerability and not make the player invunerable! I didn't like the nerf to provoke, smoke, and many other powers, but I don't think altering invincibility is the key.

We are super heros after all! And it's not cheap

[SilverSenturion]

Part of the problem with the Burn vs. Invincibility arguments is that they fundamentally worked in different ways, however, both were facilitated by the way Provoke worked. Burn allowed an individual tanker to reap massive rewards for very little risk, while Invincibility allowed groups to reap massive rewards with very little risk. The main bone of contention here was that both were enabled by the use of Provoke. It kept the villians close so that each power could work. Change that and you change how the powers behave, and you change the results that they yield.

I can understand why Burn/Invulnerability/provoke were/are being looked at, but it would have been a bit easier to micromanage if they had just changed provoke to start. Then muck around with the other powers. That way you don't get the drastic drop in preformance.

Again I am all for the idea that changes needed to be made to those powers, but stack them all up and you get some pain.

-Senturion

[Ex_Libris]

As for the burn "exploit" or the hasten "exploit" or the provoke/invinc "exploit"; its a load of crap all of it. The devs are delaying the inevitable. This game is unfortunately doomed. They are trying to balance out something that in a year will be running at AC2 numbers. If someone finds a way to level fast or have some fun let em. Your mistake not theres. Stop worrying about what to nerf and start worrying about what happens when the players hit lvl 40 and have nowhere to go. Start worrying when the players have read the book and seen the movie. With CoV not coming out for another year roughly then its gonna take alot of content update patches to keep anyone occupied for to long. I have a lvl 23 char and several lvl 15 and belows; to tell you the truth I am really getting bored. All there is to do is fight and if your not fighting your doing nothing. I dont count looking for a group or soloing, which if I wanted to do I would play Sacred or Far Cry, as something that breaks the monotony of the level grind. They had noble intentions when they started the game but somewhere it fell out from under them. I was really looking forward to this game but its lack of space and content is going to be its downfall. Granted it is fun blasting out tons of goons is the streets of Paragon, or at least it was then first 100+ hours I did it. I really could care less about fighting that new giant robot or circus clown gone bad, its all the same. As for pushing strategy and working harder for your kills; how can you even say its hard to develop strategy for this game. If things go bad its because a moron joined the group and doesnt know his job not because the AI is so smart and you have to develop new strategy. Its basic and once you figure out a good way to take em down you do it over and over again in every city zone in the game.

Lack of interest in future updates will kill them and nerfing everyone under the sky will not help players to want to stick around when more online games come out in only a few months (i.e. Guild Wars--not that great--, WoW--could be good--, EQII--another could be good--) Those few come out in August and have good potential.

We will see and only time will tell. I would like to renew interest in CoH as it is one of the few original online games on the market. I am a little dissapointed with the approach and lack of non-combat content though.

[Ex_Libris]

Thanks Gek, have been a fan of all your hard work since beta.
I had to wait 26 levels to fit Hasten into my build, and I am praying that it will not be changed. I know things change all the time, but since beta the two major draws to the game for me have been that our characters are superheros (dont need near as much nerfing as other MMORPGS because our powers should be extraordinary) and that we can feel confident when we use a hard earned power slot, it won't be wasted.
I can tell you at 24th-26th it is a long wait to get that next slot, can only imagine the wait from 34 to 36:(
My main concern is one that will affect my 26th level Magic hero tho. It was my understanding that no matter what origin we picked we would have the same rights as any other origin.
However after much research in game and on the boards, I have come to find that since I chose a Magic origin, Endurance Recovery SO's (for one, Flight speed another)are not available to me but other origins get them 30-35ish. People saying this is a bug in the game. Mutants supposedly get them at 27 other origins at 32.
My 32nd level friends have done the quest to open their special contacts, Mutants get em, Magic does not.
I built my character with endurance recovery as my primary enhancer to my group.:( These SO's are very important to my build.
Irregardless of me and my woes, you Devs have been wonderful about including us, your customer base, in all of the decisions you can, and you keep us one of the most informed player bases in the gaming world.
So, I want to say that this deserves something, those people who chose Magic Origins and any other ones that may have bugs deserve to know if a fix is forthcoming (or should we remake our characters as mutants who get these SO's at 27th), even better an estimated timeline for a fix.
This should be a fix for sooner rather than later as it seems all the origins should have the same ability to get origins if we meet the quest criteria that others do.:)
Last night when I was grouped the Mutant Defender had their SO's while the Magic Defender seemed quite useless when the Mutant said, "Nah let me do that, mine are better".
Thanks for your help and all your hard work

[Omegaj9]

So true Cyclonis. EVERYTHING is the same you just lvl up and then you fight the same guys just a different skin but for some strange reason I am hooked LoL.Maybe I'll feel the same way as you in 2 months.

[Ace___]

I presume the "will not Reduce Accuracy" is a aimed at those clamouring for a nerf of controllers.

I don't think reducing accuracy is the way to avoid statue fights. Just reduce the area of the ae control attacks. This would not severely impact on the Controller's ability to solo (where the crowd being attacked would probably still nearly all be within the area). However when in a group the Controller would be unable to catch more than (say) 30% of the (much larger) crowd of mobs. While this would still leave the Controller a very serious force in a team, the rest of the team would still get to fight animated foes.

[Genetic]

This is on the topic of AM + Hasten. So, what I've been reading is that if you have a total of 10 SO recharge rate reducers divded between AM and Hasten, you'll be able to have them both up all the time, with no downtime? Does that sound right?

I've been sitting in the Brickstown Tram waiting for an answer to the question of Terrify Damage Enhancers for hours now, waiting to level up to 39, but I figure I might add more slots to Hasten since it's taking so long.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Geko- Awesome. :cool:

As for Accelerate Metabolism and Hasten- Sounds like the usual super-powerful stuff that many analyzers came tor ely on the achieve results far beyond the norm. Lowering effectiveness is perfectly justified. So sorry if you cant defeat enemies that you shouldn't be able to. I still find AM to be a real boon. Do you really need to have maximum powers every fight? Can't you just plow in and use it whenever it's recharged? If people have their whole character built around those being perma-on or virtually so, well blah. You're just increasing your downtime.

As for the Popular comment- "a Republic will only last until the people realize they can vote themselves largesse." Or something similar to that. The Devs don't want the game to be too easy. That leads to boredom.

IMHO some Defender stuff is still too powerful. I have several Force field defenders and one is my main, and tis slightly too powerful. Individual bubbling, with many slots, with both bubbles, can make a group virtually invincible. Not only that but Cryptic doubled the duration- which means half the END burn for keeping folks bubbled. I really like it, it's nice. Too nice. IMHO the elegant solution would be to keep it as powerufl or slightly more even but only allow one defender to have Deflection OR insulation on the same friendly. That way two FFs could shield against both or stack one, but one FF can't provide universal protection. FFs are just amazingly good when you have both individual + dispersion all heavily slotted.

[Ex_Libris]

Geko,

Please take the "We must have xxx constantly or we suck!" posts with a grain of salt. As a Mind/Radiation Controller who ended up 6 slotting AM (3 SO Rechg + 3 DO End Recov) I have no issues with this power at the moment. It is up a LOT, and I don't even have hasten *Gasp*.

I could sit here and complain about some things in my AT and claim that they're the most important things to the game and need to be fixed right now...but I'd be delusional.

In my not so humble opinion, the biggest change you guys made to the game was the XP (Purple con) change. I'm not sure you guys really thought this all the way through. Several times now I have gone on level 30 missions only to find a level 35 Lt. at the end, which is essentially an NPC 6 levels higher than myself.

Now I know you know where an NPC falls on the 6+ levels higher than a player (In regards to effectiveness / accuracy) and I know you all have already made some changes to this (That aren't live yet). This should be #1 priority right now, you have obviously designed the game to have a high level NPC mixed in with some lower level NPC's (i.e. Crey's Folly). It has essentially brought my hunting to a halt on my primary character. I can't solo groups that have a purple NPC 5+ levels in it, and I can't find a group in these zones because everyone is soloing underlings for silly xp.

This game currently revolves around combat and grouping and both these things have been hit hard by the change. I have been saying the game is too easy since release, but changing from "easy" to impossible wasn't quite what I had in mind.

By the way, wanted to add that there is no middle ground between easy and impossible in this situation. It's an artificially inflated difficulty based 'solely' on the NPC's level. Make the tougher Lt's and Bosses more resistant in general rather than simply making them purple cons. If these are to be our primary challenges as we level, they should be very difficult, but not simply because I am 1% effective against them.

[JaimeWolf]

With the recent changes do you still think the game is impossible? Over teh past week 06-25-04 to 07-02-04 I've schooled some mobs I should be able to. I hit fast healing (only 1 end red SO in it) and take on a mob of 3 warwolves 3 lvls higher than I. I can take on 1 purple warwolf with 1 red warwolf at the same time in claw to claw.

Today I noticed that the indoor mobs are changing size. Typically the size was 3 minions or 1 minion + 1 LT. Today I've seen 2 LTs or 4 minions in some cases. I see this as a nice change and a good challenge.

I say thumbs up on the recent changes.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
With the recent changes do you still think the game is impossible? Over teh past week 06-25-04 to 07-02-04 I've schooled some mobs I should be able to. I hit fast healing (only 1 end red SO in it) and take on a mob of 3 warwolves 3 lvls higher than I. I can take on 1 purple warwolf with 1 red warwolf at the same time in claw to claw.

Today I noticed that the indoor mobs are changing size. Typically the size was 3 minions or 1 minion + 1 LT. Today I've seen 2 LTs or 4 minions in some cases. I see this as a nice change and a good challenge.

I say thumbs up on the recent changes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will agree. I think the recent changes are, for the most part, outstanding.

[Ex_Libris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*I will make Statesman wash my car.

[/ QUOTE ] Considering his super-strength, do you really want him rubbing vigorously on your car's finish? ;)

[/ QUOTE ]

Considering super strength really isn't all that super I'd say at best he'll get a nice shine out of it.

[Ex_Libris]

I have to agree with Cyclonis as well. Even though I have only played CoH for a few weeks, I already feel dreary from the grind. Mission XP is pitiful to the point that everyone I know in the 20's just want to go "hunting" unless of course the servers are full and its better to have your own personal spawn. And at high levels its even more dreadful, because you have to get more than twice as much xp just to get a new power.

I played Ultima Online for a long time, and ran a popular free server for 3 years. On my server, I always tried to keep things new, whether I'd add a surprise monster or just login and roleplay some sort of mence. I always tried to think of ways find something for players to do other than just developing skills.

One thing I never did was lessen a classes ability to do what it was designed to do. Rather, I had spawns that were more attractive to various classes, the spawn could have been immune to magic, weapons, or pets. With balance anytime you remove something from a class, it just makes the others look stronger until everyone has a diminished capacity to play as they like.

Overall as I have stated elsewhere, the problems with burning out, AT balance, and maintaining subscription levels all come down to one fundamental part of this game. The only reward for play is achieved through dealing damage to enemies. Every AT should gain XP for doing what they do.

At any rate, I apologize for my rant. I just see so many avenues to make this game better for everyone, and alot of the talk all over these boards has to do with messing with someone else play. Or in my opinion, demanding small changes that will do nothing to maintain playability or the player base's interest for the next year. This game has one of the most refreshing concepts I have seen in a long time, we just need to get the mechanics down, before its too late...

[beowulfe]

This is why I'm here and will never again play an MMO from SOE or any game from Luca$fart$

[Ex_Libris]

hello, first time posting anything. or whatever this is.seems that the tankers class has been handicapped for a long while, i was just too stubborn a player to notice.i have recently gotten to level 28 and my role as a team player is getting usurped by scrappers.they have always done way more damage, but have relied on tankers to pull the aggro away in alot of combat sims.now they are melee masters ,able to hold aggro almost as good(just as good if the pick certain powers or pool sets),in addition to their dominating damage, and they have defenses against stun\mez that is deadly to tankers.everyone i have asked about this just say "go get US",but i do and with it on ,it seems i dont hold the aggro, and cannot help other teammates with it on as if i were mobile.i can hold a mobs aggro without taunt or provoke, but to do that mobility is key.using taunt (which is slow),or provoke(and wasting a power choice, what other class needs to pick a pool power just to do their role)just doesnt get the number of enemies aggro'd as i can moving,and should one slip past me to the team, well they are screwed because i cant drop US and close range in time to help them to any great effect.These scraprs however seem choice tankers for the higher levels, their defense AVOIDS most damage a tanker can only try to absorb.aggro only lasts as long as the enemy does, and they dont last long at all with a scrapper hitting them.tankers have come to epitomize the name they carry. slow, cumbersome,and easily taken out with the right equipment.and it would seem most bad guys are coming equiped with the powers to deal with a tanker.i used t olike tamking, it made me feel like i really wasa contributing member of a team,but lately all ive been doing is slowing the team down,with my weaknesses getting more routinely exposed, draining my teams defenders endurance on me instead of helping the entire team.it seems tankers need a babysitter to help them go antwhere, and levelling solo is very time consuming(less so then maybe a petless controller, but nonetheless).and SUPERstrength is kind of misleading, you would think i wouldnt have to hit a guy 10 times when a katana only needs to hit twice, or something.it is very frustrating,and cancelling my subscription at this point seems a just option(rather than renewing and renewing in hopes that SOMEtime in the future we will get a chance to contribute beyond our upper 20s)

[Phaedrus]

"...in addition to their dominating damage, they (Scrappers) have defenses against stun\mez that is deadly to tankers."
(quoting from above, haven't figured out qoute system yet)

I have a lvl 29 scrapper drk/inv and have no def against stun or mez. In fact when I am stunned my only recourse is to run (hobble off slowly) or die. I too found no use for US as it makes me stationary and the mobs just run around me. I have a few questions regarding powers.

1. Where is this protection against stun that Commando11B is talking about? Because I need it desperately.

2. Are the devs ever going to upgrade the Maneuvers and Assault powers from the Leadership Power Set?
The fact that I can't add dmg enhancements to Assault is just mind numblingly frustrating. I thought at first that it would just increase as I lvld but this is appaerently not so. Early on, Assault added an average of one point per punch on Shadow Maul. That is a grand total of 8 extra pts per turn. Last night I tested it again on same lvl 5th Column baddies and in several experiments the results were the same: one pt per punch for a total of 8 pts. If this is a percentile thing, then this power has become weaker as I have lvl'd. Is this a bug?
Why does it cost so much endurance and give so little in return? Are you planning on fixing this problem or should I bag the power all together? If the latter is the case then I suggest to everyone reading this: Don't get Leadership it costs too much for very little reward." :(

My Invincibility seems to add a greater accuracy bonus than Tactics does. Is this true? If so, why?

Seth Polatkin -Lone Warriors- Liberty

P.S. I have been playing many characters and archetypes for the past three months and all of them are great. They all have some weakness but if you are clever, you can overcome that weakness. And if I'm not mistaken I think that is the point.

P.P.S. Please upgrade Leadership! (less endurance cost and Damage/ Defense enhancements allowed in Maneuvers and Assault )

[Ex_Libris]

1: Unyeilding stance, practiced brawler, obsidian sheild, and integration. Theres one anti stun power for every powerset for scrappers.

2:Manuevers and assault and tactics do more when a defender is using them, and its percentile based. 5% bonus to relevent stat for most people, but its 12% when a defender is the one casting it, and 10% or a controller (or some similar numbers). But as you go up levels, average damage doesn't raise awefully much, and your overall damage maybe be going up from a 1 point increase to a 1.5 point increase and your not seeing it in the rounded-off numbers.

Invincability should add more than tactics, especially when you have 4+ guys near you.

Leadership is ment for defenders, and when a defender is using it the effect is nearly double compaired to a tank using it.

[Dragons_Might]

hi, dude the game states when when you make a character, Tanker High Hit Points MEDIUM DAMAGE, Scrappers Medium Hit points and do damage HIGH. mmmm sorry if i sound sarcastic but thats sounds like a scrapper is suppose to out damage a tanker or is it just me? in game context basically they can't take what they dish out while a tanker can take damage and then some they hold the aggro while the rest of the team or scrappers kill foes, I'm not gonna lie i seen some tankers do alot of damage. maybe it's the way their powers are slotted and enhancements placed.

[WizRa]

Whelp fresh off test server and I must say, as a 39 AR/Device blaster I am floored by the changes. Though floored doesn't seem to quite cover it, my heart is in my shoes. I didn't ask for my design, I just choose it as is and choose my strategy. IMO you just ask way to much to take a backstep in power as we have with this upcoming nerf. Your mistake, but our consequences. PI hunting is no longer viable at my level. With haste/CD/SGx3 and 3 Good Luck defense tabs, a level 41 group mowed me down 1st volley. I went to bricks, level 38 group (that would be 1 level lower than me) reduced me to half hp by fights end. So I've gone from groups of Level 42-43 to now having to fight criminals 1 level or more below me for worthwhile exp. As 30k debt death a pop isn't worth taking too many risks when exp is coming in at 160 a pop rather the 500-2500 a pop pre patch.

This isn't an argument weather we were over powered or if this is right or wrong so don't go there. It is however one massive pill we've been asked to swallow. I feel as if I am a far above average gamer in the planning/stragity department. I plan my powers and slot allocation through 40 before even entering the character select screen. I know at level 1 exactly what I will have at every given level through 40, but there is no possible way I could have planned for a fundamental change such as this. I am level 1 again, I have to completely relearn how to play my level 39 character. I have to completely rediscover my boundaries on what I can and cannot do. I have to devise new hunting strategy as everything I have learned to this point is no longer relevant to the character I will be inheriting come post patch.

Call me a whiner if you must, but I don't know any other way to clearly state that I detest these changes, to the point of physical pain every time I think about what my character has become. I have invested what is for me a tremendous amount of time into this character. I am paid through September and I will see through these changes until then so I am not quite sure what I'll do. I do know my initial reaction is this level 39 character is not what I signed on for, knowing what I know now I would have invested my time into another class. I do know I don't have it in me to do the grind to level 39 again with the very real possibility that any choices I make now, despite any planning/stragity on my part will be completely useless when yet another change of this magnitude is made to yet another class/power.

[SBeaudway]

I understand your unhappiness, Nagical, but when was the last time the game was actually challenging for you? I play */Devs too and while the bugged SG was extemely useful, it did not make the game more fun. My only complaint is: why did it take this long to fix it. If it's that bugged, it should have been caught in beta, avoiding all this aggravation now.

I am looking forward to the challenge of post SG blasting! :)

[WizRa]

You stated the heart of my concern very well. Why did it take so long to take away if it was so overpowered? At what point does the dev team say, "we dropped the ball" and at this point since it has been in for so long that it is unfair to the players who have invested so much time in that taking it away would be wrong? And maybe find another fix. I have 15 ish characters before my AR/Dev blaster. 1 was level 25...other was 19...several more in the mid to high teens, all before I made my main that is level 39 now. That is a lot of time to go buy to just not discover that something isn't right.
Super Cudo's to the customer service, best in any game I've ever been in...and I go back as far as Never Winter Knights on AOL. But answer me this...at what point does the dev team take responsibility for a mistake and say its been in the game too long to take it away...and come up with an alternate solution so the players don't ultimately pay the price for these errors?

[maxfire]

Hey if you have six recharge in it it still is perma.I know with smoke grenade being fixed we would all like to be to put defense buff in it also.But I think they want blasters to be a team AT.

If you want to solo and not die a whole lot make a scrapper.
I dont think they will nerf them in fact they seem very intent on making that the best AT in the game { at least until epic AT comes out}

I think the changes to smoke and some controlers were very good for the game in the long run.

Maxfire lvl 50 fire/energy blaster

[True_Prophet]

Hi Geko,

I am keeping my fingers crossed that you actually read this post and perhaps will even respond to it. I have had City of Heroes since it first hit the shelves back in April 2004. I play mainly on the Guardian server in where I currently have the following characters, a level 40 Illusionist-Kinetics Controller, a level 34 Gravity-Storm controller, a level 32 Assault Rifle-Devices Blaster, a level 27 Mind-Empathy Controller, a level 14 Fire-Stone Tanker, a level 10 Storm-Psionic Defender and last but not least a level 8 Spines-Regen Scrapper. This should somewhat insure that I do indeed know what I am and will be talking about in this reply to your post regarding the game in general.

I want to address the NERF’ing factor first. Instead of Nerf’ing powers, the not so good powers should be immediately fixed. It is a known fact that continually NERF’ing will lead to a games ultimate demise. It certainly did for Star Wars Galaxies and Ever Quest. City of Heroes is an outstanding game, with even greater potential. Many of the power sets need work, they should be balanced not NERF’d to death. For instance take the Mind Controllers power set, no body will play this power set for a few of the powers cause XP loss if used, second there is no Pet as there is for all the other Controller’s. This power set needs immediate attention, its concept is nice but its powers were implemented without good testing. Simply put leave all the powers the way they are and fix the ones that nobody uses. All this crying over Fire Tankers and Assault Rifle Devices blasters is ridiculous. Someone thinks of a good concept and instead of being rewarded for it, they are punished by constant NERF’ing. You need only run a QUE and gather some statistics on what powers are used and what powers are not. The powers that are not used are clearly the ones that need work. The concept that Fire burns and Ice slows makes perfect sense, but almost everyone will go for Fire because it does more damage and the name of the game is XP. You have a select few who stick to character conception and role playing rather than power leveling, so for them the fun of the game in there characters story and creation.

The issue of Endurance for Tanks and Defenders has already been addressed in this upcoming patch. However there are many other powers that need to be balanced not NERF’d. Missions, should award more experience, double what is currently awarded, this may compel some to actually do the story rather than power level. Training enhancers are all but useless after 15th level and a filter should be put in place to prevent them from dropping, duel origin enhancers are useless after 35th level and should also be filtered. Signal origin enhancers should drop more often and should be awarded in Task Force missions more often other than just 1 at the end. All enhancers should be made available in dual origin form at 15h level instead of 25th level. I am currently drafting another post that will directly address what power’s I am referring to. The purpose of this post is to simply let you know its coming and who it’s going to be coming from. Please reconsider going crazy with the NERF’ing and fix the powers that are so badly in need of attention.

Thank you.

[Arclite2]

But they have been.

You're only talking about Blasters. You were here since Inception, right? Since 'The Jump'? This game started out as 'City of Blasters' because blasters could, and still can, drop mobs in single hits. You slot your powers right, and anything that cons blue is toast in a single expenditure of endurance. Worse still, you get the right set up, and you can floor a pile of mobs all at once... or with a team of blasters, 'On 3' seems to work wonderfully. Boom. No more pack of nazis.

Scrappers have had their powers all crit-added, defenders, tankers, and controllers have had their costs reduced and their archetype benefits enhanced, Stone powers have had their health regen implemented, several fire powers have had their range or radius increased and their recharge times reduced!

You can't look at the shadow and call it night when the morning sun is plain for all to see.

[SnoFlake]

heres one for the griping... being whats done is done, for now... smoke grenades.... yes, i do have a fire/dev blaster, and i love her dearly. yes, i agree to a point that SGs are overkill.... catch - manual explination of SG.. most foes in affected area cant see past MELEE range. if attacked, they see you, but have a penalty to hit. okay, so whats the difference of melee range and ranged? close quarters combat. if i can punch or kick you, then youre in melee range, if i have to launch any type of projectile to bring damage to you, youre in ranged combat. a shooter in a smoke screen will not be able to see his target, unless he's using NVGs (night vision goggles) or heat sensor equipment, which i seriously doubt is in thier carry packs. ive taken my blaster to test, ive used SG there, and even with SG combined with super speed and cloaking dev, i got hit more often with the 3 than i did without. but that was purely fluke. smoke grenade isnt that overpowered, theres just alot of sour -pusses out there that dont like someone being able to solo when they cant. i dont go out looking for a team, i dont really care for it as i have died more often in teams than out of, so theres a sour taste. if you do manage to get a /dev blaster in your group, i would think you would take advantage of his ability to use SGs and employ him/her to do so, dont complain because he has something you dont. heck, i would trade smoke grenades for a flock of fire emps or some other classes pet ability, which blasters dont get. actually, i would trade web grenade for anything at all.... :eek:

[Comfort]

Posted elsewhere, but maybe Geko will glance at it here... Rise of the Phoenix

At the last minute it seems it was changed to not include knockback. This knockback was the only thing it had going for it before, allowing you to push everything over and give you a chance to rebuff. On test it seems it was still working, plus the newest changes to give you some stamina to rebuff with. On live it lost the knockback. What's going on here? I don't recall reading about that in the patch notes? It's less useful than it was before...

[Ex_Libris]

Please read Kingrane's post. He said everything that needed to be said.

In all honesty, I was loving the release. I had been respecing my characters that required it to be of more use, my defender and scrappers (and a blaster). So I hadn't actually gotten back to my Device blasters (i've a couple of them).

First, Devices do not enhance damage (remember that the next time you do double damage with build up). Devices are for stealth. All of the stealth is gone from devices. Smoke grenade is just one, but also cloaking. Think about the defense you should have, at range, with smoke screen and cloaking. A group of level 27 mobs didn't seem to mind, my level 29 ar/dev blaster was hit 100% of the time from them, sickening, but I'm only glad they did 50% damage before the shaman locked me in a rock cage (twice).

I had 2 sgs on them, cloaking device, and combat jumping and they still never missed me.

It sounds like complaining and it is, not only is my charater absolutely worthless to play solo, I can still out agro a tank. That makes my character useless in a group as well.

I had heard they were nerfing... that isn't a nerf, that is a tactic employed by developers to get people to stop playing certain skills. period.

It was done in other games in the name of balance, but basically boiled down to "we can drive people away from this skill if we do this, it is much easier than make than balancing many other skills and we have to get a release out fast".

This isn't 2 cents worth of ranting, I wish I could relate how sick I feel now.

THis is Knee-jerk programming at its worse. Yes, make things more difficult, make powers stronger to compensate, but you should never ever nerf a skill just because it's the easy way to get a release done faster.

[uviathon]

Took me some time and debt to get used to the new change, but now I whole-heartedly appreciate them. I am an AR/DEV blaster, and I just hit 33. I now have SG 3 SO'd, up from 2. I took cloaking device for the purpose of trip mining, and in anticipation of them fixing SG. I think "fixing" is the proper term. Now, I have to use Cloaking Device, Combat Jumping and SG, but it does what I need it to do - mitigate some of the initial aggro I draw from my initial attack. I still get hit, often hard, but I feel fairly stable, or at least like I am actually present in the same plane of existence as the mobs. I can take +2 mobs, but I have to stay on my toes, use tactics, use insps (they used to stay in my tray forever). The game isnt just "harder" now, it's more challenging, and immensely more satisfying. I hope I am seeing the devs initial vision for what playing with a blaster was supposed to be. Before I could solo red con minions with purple con bosses. Not now, and that's fine. Balance has been restored.

I think the biggest specific complaints stem from two issues:

1. SG, obviously - I think the update just made it so you have to slot it to make it more like it was before. Before the update, you could just use the 1 slot it came with, and you were nearly untouchable. It's still incredibly useful, it just doesnt grant godhood for simply selecting it.

2. Debt - I think too many people just turn off the game and slam the forums when they rack up 20k debt. After the patch, I hit my cap (129k) between the aura missions and the respec trial. Took me two sittings of like 4 hours to work it off. I dont think people should complain about debt unless they hit the cap and then spend the requisite amount of time, and still cant get out. If you play to have fun, get on a team and go hunting. The debt will go away without you even realizing. I was having a blast with my friends, and suddenly I could see the light at the end.

At least as far as my AR/DEV blaster goes, I am loving the changes.

[Ex_Libris]

Did I mention dying or debt? no.

Look, smoke grenade was a power that was relied on, because is "was" a power. don't you get it. it would be like the designers of the game making build-up only work on powers that do "minimal" damage, because you should be able to do extreme damage with your other powers, build up is just to improve the low level powers. What kind of outcry would there be for that. What kind of new tactics would you suggest tot he fire fire blasters? oh, go on you can use your inspirations, provided you don't have something queued or are held because the mobs that used to be dead are now 50% and ticked.

It doesn't seem to set in, this is the first time the developers actually made an entire power set worthless. And there's nothing we can do about it but "make a new character".

What kind of brainchild would say that... make a new character. I've got plenty, and I have some that are level 29+, you don't just "make a new level 29 character", especially since your charater had to have tactics to begin with, tactics meant to provide output for effort. SG didn't mean invulnerable, but it meant a blaster could survive the initial volley, and perhaps an encounter.

"Change your tactics". I love that. Yeah, aparently people didn't realize that stealth does mean that "you do not get hit". The devices blasters have no defenses (except stealth and sg). that IS the tactic, that IS the defense, and now it's gone.

Respec? we should be able to respec and choose a different power set, one with buildup, but then... there will be no devices on the server anymore.

[Ex_Libris]

I wrote this on another thread but I feel it would be well suited for this one as well:

Greetings,

The one thing I could always say about COH was (and I've been playing since beta) they have never NERF-ed skills, they always found ways to improve the game.

Nerfing is Lax and Lazy programming. If you want balance, make powers stronger to rival the ability of the stronger powers, never, under any circumstances make a power weaker, regardless of the excuse.

There is no 1 single power in the game that is so strong as to make a person immune to death (some come close, but you still have limits).

Nerfing is the Number 1 killer of games. The reason is because the programmers become Lazy... Let's reduce this power rather than making these other (20) powers stronger for balancing purposes.

You see the dilema, the problem is, now with the nerf they have actually rendered an entire power set unusable (remove the powers and the rest follow).

If we accept the nerf as good because it balances powers, we now open all of our powers to that. NO, stop the lazy programming, find ways to improve the powers, never reduce them.

You talk about tactics. That is what our powers allow us to create, a working tactic, and if you allow a working tactic to be removed, you have effectively destroyed that character.

If you condone this, then you have signed a death sentence of this game.

[uviathon]

Um...I wasnt singling out 'Valkyrian' when I mentioned the thing about debt. I was simply making a general statement, as I have read numerous posts from people who have 20k debt and are whining to high heaven. I would have been one of them, too, had I not first made an attempt to see just how bad it was. I was at debt cap, but I just teamed with my buds, got used to playing under these new conditions, and I worked my debt off rather quickly.

My experiences with my blaster just seem to disagree with yours. True, SG didnt always make me totally immune - I died a number of times - but, from the moment I simply took the power, I was able to solo large red con mobs with purple con bosses recklessly. If I died, it was usually because I didnt take out the boss fast enough, or I just did something dumb. I could solo most anything I had the damage output to kill in a reasonable amount of time. The thing is that before, even though I had tripmine, I didnt really need to use it. It was just a way to mix up attacks. I could mindlessly run up to a mob, SG, caltrop, flamethrow, buckshot, cleanup, move on. Now, placing mines before the fight is more essential to success. I never had to use combat jumping before. Now, it's a regular toggle. The only time I had to use insps was if I ran out of end in a tough battle, or if I just felt like getting rid of the old to see what they would give me new. Now, yet another part of the game that was more window dressing before becomes essential to gameplay.

I suppose I agree with your fictional scenario of Buildup - that would suck. But I really dont think these changes are on par with that. I think a more accurate scenario would be like if there was some attack that was doing the equivalent of 6 SO damage the minute you get it, and they fixed it. It could still be as effective, but you would actually have to slot it. I think that saying DEV defenses are now "gone" is a tad extreme. The third SO I just put in SG is helping alot for me to take out +2 minion mobs now. If I did the math properly, 6 SO'd SG will give about 39% debuff. Not 50%, but pretty close. The def is still there, just now you have to actually work for it.

I'd submit to you that, if you were aced by a blue con mob, either you need some adjustments to your build, or there's another element not being addressed (bosses, snipers, etc). I've been killed a few times since the update, thinking it was some magic shot or perhaps the nerf, only to check the damage messages to see I was tagged by a sniper I didnt see before engaging a mob. Are all your attacks and defs SO'd?

[Ex_Libris]

Greetings praeter,

As it is, I did not build my device blaster correctly. you see, my SG has 1 slot and that slot is "accuracy buff".

With this particular setup, I could never take out groups of +2 mobs, and would be capped rather handily by a purple. I learned early on that I didn't want to do that with this power.

But I didn't know that if you put 6 SO debuff slots in it, you were immune to damage. Excuse me for NOT taking full advantage of a bug.

My outrage is based upon my use, or rather, lack of use, of the skill.

Everything else is fine with the offense, and other skills, and yes, I place trip mines... cals, ft a group to dot, then drag them back with me to the mines. That was my tactic that was only effective against Same level mobs.

So, in my opinion, in my version of my character that I'd played, I have no defense (btw, that was with cloak on and combat jumping), especially when getting hit 100% of the time.

That is why I view this as a break.

I guess that Invincibility will be the next one that will be nerfed then. I say this because the very moment I got the skill, with absolutely no enhancments in it I solod 2 red lieutenants without getting a hurt.

The unfortunate precedent set forth by "nerfing" super power is that they're supposed to be super, they are defined as super, they aren't called "mediocre" powers. You don't create "Balanced" Man and the "Average" group.

Super implies "useful", from the get go without enhancement.

A super power should not "have to be slotted" to be super.

Does super speed crawl and require 6-slotted speed SOs to run fast? no, because it is a super power.

By default, you should never be forced to enhance a skill in order for that skill to be effective. If it is ineffective without enhancement... That is what i view as being a broken skill.

of course, this is my opinion

[logmo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am another gamer that definatly doesn't like the latest changes. Last night and today I played my Gravity/Kinetics Controller and must say most of the fun has gone out of this charactor for me. ALL of my powers require me to hit a target to work. I spent every influence point I had to buy 6 Accuracy enhancements and people were still dieing too often in my group because I was regularly missing targets with my heals and buffs.
It seems to me that all other healers that I can think of do not have to hit an enemy to heal thier group so kinetics was the only group effected in this way. Was it really nessesary to nerf a heal that missed regularly even before the patch? I use 80% of my slots for Accuracy enhancements just to not feel usless in groups.
Most types of powers have passive and self affecting powers that were not affected by the patch, For example my Scrapper misses his punches more often yet his Invulnerability powers are just as effective as ever. Gravity/Kinetics players seem to have gotten a raw deal as 95% of both power sets are affected.

Also one of the things I liked very much about this game was that players several levels apart could still group together and be effective. Now if you are 3 levels above the rest of the group you are carrying it and if you are 3 levels below the rest of the group you are close to useless. :(:mad:

[/ QUOTE ]

This was the most annoying patch yet.. in fact I quit because of it this morning.. check out my post "why I am going to quit CoH"

Can't group, can't XP, no content, Beta Game.. not going to pay for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Posts like "Why I am going to quite Coh" are usually deleted because it brings up flames. Besides there's no reason for you to explain why to us the Coh gamers, just leave and move on with your life.

[Anachronism]

SG got nerfed because it let you buff it all the way up to 100 percent Debuff, making sure that even an even con boss would have something like a -12 percent chance to hit you. I believe the streakbreaker code still allows them to hit you, but at a low level.

Now, the reason it was so broken was because it was a massive, massive advantage to the Blasters. Yeah, it sucks, they took it away. It'd be like taking away the ability to use Teleport to move around while in Unyielding Stance. That is -the best- tanker build right now because of that loophole.

I don't use it though! It's cheating and dirty. Just because I -can- do it doesn't mean I should. I don't blame you or anyone for using the Smoke Grenade, but it's not like you're a tanker. Blasters traded all their defense for the ability to utterly obliterate squads of men at once.

I'm a level 27 Invul/EM tanker usually, and it takes me a combo of my three best attacks to kill a gray [VVV] con! If I could kill a blue in one hit I'd be happy. If I could kill a whole pack of blues, I'd be ecstatic. If you want MY level of offense, as well as my lack of range (NPC ranged attacks do a lot less damage than melee), then I'd say that you deserve all the defense in the world.

I don't think the AT's are balanced that great. I think Tankers need more O, less D. Their different powers sets, and their massive advantages should set them apart, not their critical, crippling weaknesses.

And I also think Invincibility needs work. It is broken. But if you want to touch it, you need to agree to give me mobile status resistance that doesn't kill me or something. If I am no longer going to be invincible, I need to at least be able to move without being put to sleep and killed.

[Angelic_Kitten]

I'm time pressed or this would be alot longer...
I've read the last page or two of postings and i'd like to throw in my pennies...

Tankers do need more offense and less defense. If youre going to cap their Defense and reduce it so that they're taking some damage, you really should open up their offense a little so they can contribute more.

Regarding the Tanker/Scrapper invunerability issue, perhaps it might be fair to reduce scrapper invulnerabilty by a percentage, similiar to the way controller buffs are reduced in comparison to defender buffs? I think the devs are aware of this and tinkering with it, as Super Strength Tankers seem to be rejoicing with issue two.

*-----*-----*-----*

Some one mentioned that the Device pool didn't have Build up to make it an uber power pool for alpha strikes.

Thats true and not true. They do have targeting drone, which if slotted to always be running, provides all the accuracy they need to slot powers with all damage. (+33% damage for the SO replacing accuracy). The accuracy is present all the time, as is the slotted damage, it doesn't run out after the alpha strike, or need to be recycled to to use again like BU.

The sets with BU are missing alot of useful stuff for a blaster. Out of Nine powers, you're lucky if you can find three or four that you want. SG, is still a good power, if you're willing to go the long route and forgo mass AOE attacks, you can still single shot and not cause agro. (Sorta like the controllers version of sleep, except once the fighting starts you cant sleep them again.) If you look at the power, it's a secondary power, in a damage oriented AT. You get it in the teens which in the picture is pretty early. It's power level is about where it should be (now), for a power like that. Its not your final level 40 power, it's not suppose to be uber, get over it.

There are alot of blasters that survive with out SG. Learn and adapt.

Must dash to work, i'm ranting longer than i meant to already

Milk and Cream,
Kitten

[Antipodes]

Hey geko, if you're going to nerf, why not do it in comic book style? Have some cosmic entities appear on the training server, challenge all the heroes to defeat them at a pre-appointed time before the nerf patch, and if we actually manage to beat the incarnated devas, the nerfs are delayed going live for a little while longer. If the devs or his heralds win, then the nerfs go through and change the universe as we know it. Of course, the odds of victory will be very small, but at least it gives us a way to fight the changes in-game. Just a weird idea...

[alchemest01]

[ QUOTE ]



So, with that said, let me give you my 10 Commandments of Geko:

*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.
*I will not reduce Accuracy.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you have broken all 3 of these commandments so far. In the latest patch, accuracy was nerfed (or mob defense was raised, the same thing.) breaking your "no nerfing accuracy" commandment. This was also not listed anywhere in th patch notes, breaking your "no stealth nerfs" commandment, and the game has become totally frustraiting at the high levels as every boss I have encountered there has been able to stun and kill me without allowing me any ability to fight back.

This game has become a miserable waste of time at the high levels, and I really hope that the devs take a look at the very real problems with rampant holding and other status effects being used by bosses.

Way to break 3 of your own rules Gekko, with devs like you, this game is as good as dead come WOW.

Oh, and this game used to be FUN, before I hit level 40 and realised all my missions are no longer soloable. I don't want a game with the BS 100% forced grouping of everquest.

[NapierNavlys]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, you have broken all 3 of these commandments so far. In the latest patch, accuracy was nerfed (or mob defense was raised, the same thing.) breaking your "no nerfing accuracy" commandment. This was also not listed anywhere in th patch notes, breaking your "no stealth nerfs" commandment, and the game has become totally frustraiting at the high levels as every boss I have encountered there has been able to stun and kill me without allowing me any ability to fight back.

This game has become a miserable waste of time at the high levels, and I really hope that the devs take a look at the very real problems with rampant holding and other status effects being used by bosses.

Way to break 3 of your own rules Gekko, with devs like you, this game is as good as dead come WOW.

Oh, and this game used to be FUN, before I hit level 40 and realised all my missions are no longer soloable. I don't want a game with the BS 100% forced grouping of everquest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me give you the 10 Commandments of Napier:
* Don't tell us you're leaving for WoW. Just go play WoW if you want to.
* Don't insult the devs personally. It makes you look like a petulant child.
* Don't claim that accuracy has changed without LOADS of proof to back it up.
* Don't complain that you can't solo bosses with stuns or holds. This has been explained in about forty or fifty other threads. Play a character with status protections, use inspirations, find a friend who can buff you with status protection, avoid those bosses, or figure out a different strategy for them.
* Do read some other threads before you just start posting crazy nonsense.
* Do go wash Geko's car.
* Don't exaggerate so much. There are plenty of soloable missions post 40. There was no 100% forced grouping in Everquest, nor is there here.
* Do thank the devs for actually making some of the post 40 missions interesting, instead of the same boring soloable ones we had for the first 30 levels.
* Do learn to spell words like "frustrating" "Geko" and "Alchemist".
* Don't take anything I say too seriously. ;)

[Akhenahten]

Napier,

Thats got to be one of the best responses I've seen in a while. I may well take a few qoutes from it. Thanks.

[Hexagon]

edited since I realised that I misread the change to mission XP.

[longtime]

The game is no longer fun.

There are too many bugs and changes that lessen the enjoyment of the game.

There are too many ways of dying a lame death or to put it another way there are too many situation where you will just walk in and die.

Such as:

1) Chain Mez: I don't think that a torture could have been devised that is worse. Watching your hero getting killed slowly while you can not do anything to stop it.

2) Sleep bug: As of last patch, this is back. Even the heros that were safe from the chain mez are no longer safe. I think this is a new stun power the villian have that ignores mez defense and not the old sleep bug.

3) Endurance is running out faster. Most players are use to be able to preform a certain amount of attacks without running out of endurance and dying. This is not fun in that heros are running of edurance during typical battle situtation that the game sets-up. Having to face more villians at once does not help either.

4) Random damage increase. This started with Ritki Swords, there are now a number of villian that are doing crazy damage. I don't think that con yellow minion type villians were ment to 2 shot heros and getting killed in this way is not fun.

5) Extreme Running: The AI on running villian is way too good. Also the willingness of villian to run seems to have increase. I don't know what is worse, dying by argo another group while chasing (the villians are running to other group of villians) or dying by a villian(s) that decides to attack after you ignore him running away (I do relized that, most of the time, this is trigger by injuring the villian). Either way, the stop and go chases or the sit and wait are not fun.

6) Lag deaths are always a lame way to die. This game has gotten more laggy and had more crashes after issuse 2. This seems to be with less players. No being able to play the game is the fastest way to drive away constomers.

7) Events are not fun. Making overpowered villian that stand around and blowing heros away is not fun and not very creative either. If the Holloween events suck or are not accessable, expect that a number player will be upset.

8) The hollows. Nothing about the hollows is fun.

9) Missions have a ton of bugs since issue 2. Seem to get bugger each patch.

When the game was released a few months ago, it was a lag free fun game (I do remember the occassional crash). I played a variety of different ATs. I loved the game.

After issue 2, this game has gone steadilly down hill. The only AT that I will play is a scrapper after last night, I am not sure I want play a scrapper any more. I feel that I am logging on in vain hoping that the game is less buggy only to find it is more buggy.

The irony does not escape me that another game is coming out soon. Is COH is being hacked? I can't figure why a company would purposely turn a great game into an abosolute piece of &lt;censor!&gt;.

[Stolid]

Geko. Good work.

I pay because you do a good job.

Keep it up.

[Masamura]

Change is constant. It may be rough sometimes, and it may be smooth other times, but the only constant is change.

I understand that sometimes when things change, it may effect my game style, power, or playing for some time, and it may make me have to change my tactics so to speak, but thats all part of a game. You will have this no matter what game arena you enter. Think about EQ (as painful as it is to do so) in the respect that, when it first came out, rogues and rangers were useless and noone wanted to play one. After so long now, rogues especially, are insane damage dealers, and everyone screams nerf.

Point being, blasters were the FOTM, scrappers are as well, controllers after they get pets at 32, fire tankers, the list goes on. Constant tweaking is the only way to find the correct path to any sort of balance, and sometimes just putting something on the test server for a while doesn't cut it, because until it is released as content for the whole with everyone running through every possible variable, it can never be completely tested. Heck, there may be things out there that we still have not discovered.

I will continue to play, and if it gets rough as I level, which I am sure it will, I will still play. If a AV chain stuns/holds/sleeps me, I will find a new path to defeat him/her/it. That is the fun in gaming for me, bring me a challenge and I will defeat it, regardless of how impossible it may seem, and I hope this holds true for the rest of the heroes out there.